Bridgepont Flex vs Esteam Attack

[gimmeagig]

Is anybody here familiar with both of those products?
I have been using Attack for over a year now on anything but really new carpets and have been very happy.
The supplyer in my area that works on my machine is trying to get me to switch over to Flex because they don't carry Attack. I bought a jar of that stuff today (because they fixed my machine for me) and tried it on a pretty challenging grimy greasy house.
Worked well, as good as the Attack but not significantly better. It's 13 PH Attack is 11.5. Attack is enzyme Flex isn't but it has Citrus in it. I pickedan Enzyme cleaner because I have an older CDS machine that doesn't have the heat the some of the other machines put out.
I'm always interested in having the best possible stuff in my arsenal no matter what the cost.
What do you guys think about Flex. Is it worth switching from Attack?

 

[SamIam]

I know Warner used the esteam attack I think, its a lot like enzall good high ph pre spray, I think the flex with citrus is better on olefin and polyester the citrus and sodium per carbonate is a great combo, Larrys powermax is a little bit of both citrus lower ph per carbonate, and enzymes. its a great overall product.


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[SamIam]

Something to consider if you like esteam add a citrus additive that helps cut grease.

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[Vivers]

I know Warner used the esteam attack I think, its a lot like enzall good high ph pre spray, I think the flex with citrus is better on olefin and polyester the citrus and sodium per carbonate is a great combo, Larrys powermax is a little bit of both citrus lower ph per carbonate, and enzymes. its a great overall product.


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I totally agree and used Enzall for a long time. PowerMax is nice but the scent I could do without. We personally switched to Procyon and are loving it!

 

[dealtimeman]

see here is a different different stokes for different folks kind of thing.

i like scent of powermax by larry cobb - cobb carpet supply( i like the original powermac better than the new powermac).

first time i used enzall it smelled like medicine( i know, weird but thats what it smelled like to me) and i didn't immediately take to it. After seeing how it cleans i do like its performance but prefer the scent of powermac over enzall.

flex is a hard hitting high ph pre spray with a lot of delimonene in it, so in my opinion you really should use an acid rinse to ensure you get the most out and try to leave the textile as neutral as possible.

 

[Mike Draper]

I just cleaned 22 apartment in a building with flex. I've never had residue problems. I always run a acid rinse. We'll have to see how the carpet holds up this year to the flex vs. pros choice extreme clean, which never left a residue the other times Im a little nervous, but flex worked really great.

 

[gimmeagig]

Yes, i use Pro's Choice Last Step which is an rinse.And I do add citrus to my Attack prespray when I get a really greasy job.It's been working great.
LPM in Spokane doesn't carry Attack but they tell me that everybody has been raving about Flex. I did think it worked well on these lat two jobs but I'm not a chemist so I'm thinking that Enzymes are a more healthy for my customers and me. On the hazard rating Flex is 2 and Attack is 1. Not totally sure how important that is but when I tell my customers who are concerned about their Pet's or kids health that I'm cleaning with enzymes, they are usually happy about that.
I'll try Flex on Olefin maybe that's a good choice for that but I'm not 100% sold on residential nylon.
Also Attack has a high PH but Flex is 13PH I don't know what that will do to carpets over time even with the acid rinse.

 

[Mike Draper]

I just checked, looks like I mixed it at only half strength and it still rocked.

 

[Mikey P]

One ounce of Flex is all you need

 

[Cleantechsk]

Esteam is sold local here. .. attack is my back up if I run out of flex or grease hawg.......

 

[gimmeagig]

I just checked, looks like I mixed it at only half strength and it still rocked.

I should have paid more attention in "carpet class"
What happens to the PH if you mix it half strength? I know it cant be half of 13 but does it come down?
Also the health hazard of Flex is 2 vs #1 on Attack. Is that because of the citrus that is in flex already?
If I boosted attack with citrus would that come up to #2 ?

 

[SamIam]

I would look at the health risk of the citrus your using probably not changing to much this is where Forsythe comes in and sets me straight.

Also most chemicals are pH buffered so using 1/3 less like on dry slurry you'll see it drop from 10.5 to 9.5 in a 5 gal. pre mix.

So I would guess flex mixed at half might drop to 12 pH but #ScottWarrington would need to answer that.

That would still be to high for a stain resistant residential carpet.

Thats why its considered a sledged hammer for nasties.

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[gimmeagig]

I have not really found anything that I would commit to for newer carpets. if it's new and well taken care of I know I don't need Attack or Flex, but most of my jobs are for carpets that are either in bad shape or they are old but still nice.
What would be a really powerful pre spray for the newer carpets?

 

[SamIam]

Prekleen is under 10 from Chemspec 9.5 I think I'm sure others will chime in.

Not sure if Cobb's powermax mix's that low it say it ends up 9.5 after a fresh water rinse.


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[tmdry]

I'm also not a fan of cobbs powermax smell, so we switched to cobbs stain resist and that's all I use. I just order the 5 gallon pail from now on, $100 bucks can't beat it.

 

[Mikey P]

Bill is that your every day prespray?

What is your heavy hitter?

 

[gimmeagig]

I went to the Chemspec site and it seems like their enzyme cleaners are sensitive to heat and need to be mixed up on the job.I have older CDS machine so I have limited heat but I don't want to turn it down from where it is.
I like to have a few premixed Hydroforce jugs in my truck so that I don't have to mess with it on the road. The enzymes that Esteam uses supposedly are able to withstand higher heat and as far as I know they don't break down over time when premixed. i like that. Unfortunately the Esteam version with a lower PH for newer carpets is Mint flavored and i hate that.They do make a Suspend free that has no smell but when I start cleaning I want the customer to smell something that he/she will associate with some kind of cleaning power.

 

[SamIam]

Add a tablespoon of deodorizer or a glug depending on how you measure!


....

 

[SamIam]

Ya the chemspec products at least the prekleen 140 to 150 to activate enzymes


....

 

[J Scott W]

I should have paid more attention in "carpet class"
What happens to the PH if you mix it half strength? I know it cant be half of 13 but does it come down?
Also the health hazard of Flex is 2 vs #1 on Attack. Is that because of the citrus that is in flex already?
If I boosted attack with citrus would that come up to #2 ?

The formulators / manufacturers of a product tend to have a lot of leeway in deciding what number to assign as a health hazard. The presence of a solvent (d'limonene) does increase the health risk somewhat. Bridgepoint tends to be very cautious and assigns a higher health ranking # than some other manufacturers.

The pH on current labeling is the concentrated product in the container (for a liquid) or the saturation point (the most that will dissolve in water) for powders. The ready to use solution after it has been diluted 2 ounces to a gallon is pretty similar, just under 12 for the Flex with Citrus Solv powder.

A half strength solution of Flex powder would have only a slightly lower pH. It is well buffered. Buffering indicates how much a product resists changes in pH when diluted with water or mixed with other products.

 

[J Scott W]

By purchasing Flex with Citrus Solv, you help to support my lavish lifestyle which allows me to get the large iced tea when I stop by McDonald's for lunch.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I bought several cases of Encapuclean this week, you can go ahead and super size the whole order!

 

[J Scott W]

On a related matter, MSDS for all products will be changing over the next several months to conform to the new GHS systems from the United Nations which has been adopted by OSHA.

The new SDS can be very scary. Pictograms to depict health and safety issues. All manufacturers must have these for the concentrated products.

Bridgepoint will also be releasing SDS for the diluted products which will not require the same safety warnings that are on the concentrated products. If you mix your products before bringing them into the home and only use diluted products in the home, you can show your clients the SDS for the diluted products that you are using. This should be much more calming to the customers than showing them the SDS for the concentrated product that was never in their home.

 

[Steamin McFadden]

gimmegig, Your looking for suggestion's on a product for nice condition carpets that don't need 12 PH?

Since you live near Spokane, I will recommend procyon extreme to you. It is also safe for wool and also can be used for upholstery , and VLM cleaning . They are located on Spokane.

it works well on dirty carpet too.

 

[Mikey P]

By purchasing Flex with Citrus Solv, you help to support my lavish lifestyle which allows me to get the large iced tea when I stop by McDonald's for lunch.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Flex is the best prespray for filthy carpet I've ever used.


toss in a few scoops of Costco issued Oxy Clean for the hell of it on pee pee jobs and rinse with a RE.



New carpet is the only better option.

 

[JS41035]

I just went through a 50 pound pail of Enzall. There is a reason it is so expensive. It works. But that stuff really bothers my lungs, and it is a bit finicky to mix. I need to try flex. Maybe Scott can send out a 45 pound sample pail I can try out.

 

[Mike Draper]

I buy sodium per carbonate in 50lb. Bags. 2oz in each pre spray jug. Works great. Dirt cheap also.

 

[gimmeagig]

I'll go out on a limb and say that Flex is the best prespray for filthy carpet I've ever used.


toss in a few scoops of Costco issued Oxy Clean for the hell of it on pee pee jobs and rinse with a RE.




New carpet is the only better option.

Is the Oxy Clean like Sodium Percarbonate? and ( maybe stupid question) what is a RE?

 

[gimmeagig]

I've done a bunch of Jobs with the Flex now. residential and commercial. Maybe it's because my machine is an older CDS (no salsa package) but i think I'm going back to Attack. On really dirty carpets I add Citrus to my prespray. I have used Sodium precarbonate as a booster in the past but for some reason I have not noticed much of a difference. How much of that should I put into a 5 qt hydroforce jug?

 

[dgardner]

what is a RE?

Rotary Extractor - Hoss, 360i, RX-20, TREX, etc.