Butler versus CDS 4.8

[Pioneer Floorcare]

I've never heard someone say they regretted buying a Butler.

Ever.

I regret having bought a butler. It only fit half of what I wanted in the van, and my CDS fits everything with no trouble. Butler was a pain to communicate with because of time differences, and the guys at Hydramaster gave me personal cell numbers in case I needed after hours help. But I will concede that at 3 years my tanks do have peeling paint that Hydramaster has said they won’t warranty peeling.

 

[ruff]

Had three CDS's (not the 4.8) Pro- 1200 and currently a Butler- extra heat and bigger blower option.

• Butler is hotter than my previous CDS but I did not have the Salsa, so heat may be similar.
• Butler has better recovery.
• Unless you like doing lots of maintenance and filling forms every single freaking week and more. Butler's warranty (the famous 10 years) imho is a joke. Not worth it for me. And if a part goes bad you are not likely to have that part locally and will need their expedited shipping which cost $$$$ Unless you are willing to sit and wait.
• Butler definitely easier to service and everything is more accessible.
• So far, my Butler has been the only unit that did not have a single issue from day one. All the rest (including my 1200) had some kinks. Not sure if that is typical for Butler or just luck.
• Butler's stainless steel tank is definitely nice. CDS aluminum tanks will many times have corrosion and other issues. All of mine did and one started leaking at the water outlet weld.
• Anybody that his CDS is "junk" after 5 years is not servicing his unit correctly.
• Resale difference, considering difference in cost evens out. Its a wash.
• CDS shaft needs greasing (hard to reach and dirty work) Butler is greaseless.
• CDS will allow you to carry more equipment and or have a smaller van (non extended) if you choose and still be able to carry the same amount. I have the Butler mid-mount (their most space efficient design) with fresh water and 110 recovery tank and an extended van. Due to Butler's build and inefficient use of space I can carry less than I could with a non extended van with a CDS or Pro-1200.
• Mark's design, I am sure is awesome (and Bob likes it,) you may want to see if it will work for you. Didn't for me. A personal preference.
• Butler's makes sure the van is better equipped to handle the load and had more years to perfect their "old" design. So probably somewhat less issues.
• Butler's reel (if you get the electric one) is more awkward to roll the hoses (too wide) and holds less than the Ryko I had that was narrower, easier to roll the hoses on and held more hose. You have to have the engine working to roll (supposedly not to tax the battery) which is a little of a nuisance. My Ryko did not have a single issue with battery.
• Butler's metering system does not work as accurately as the CDS.
• If, as I think you mentioned, all you want is a unit for 5 years. Both will be just fine

Did I mention, as they said at the very end of Some Like It Hot - "Nobody is perfect"

 

[jcooper]

Had three CDS's (not the 4.8) Pro- 1200 and currently a Butler- extra heat and bigger blower option.

• Butler is hotter than my previous CDS but I did not have the Salsa, so heat may be similar.
• Butler has better recovery.
• Unless you like doing lots of maintenance and filling forms every single freaking week and more. Butler's warranty (the famous 10 years) imho is a joke. Not worth it for me. And if a part goes bad you are not likely to have that part locally and will need their expedited shipping which cost $$$$ Unless you are willing to sit and wait.
• Butler definitely easier to service and everything is more accessible.
• So far, my Butler has been the only unit that did not have a single issue from day one. All the rest (including my 1200) had some kinks. Not sure if that is typical for Butler or just luck.
• Butler's stainless steel tank is definitely nice. CDS aluminum tanks will many times have corrosion and other issues. All of mine did and one started leaking at the water outlet weld.
• Anybody that his CDS is "junk" after 5 years is not servicing his unit correctly.
• Resale difference, considering difference in cost evens out. Its a wash.
• CDS shaft needs greasing (hard to reach and dirty work) Butler is greaseless.
• CDS will allow you to carry more equipment and or have a smaller van (non extended) if you choose and still be able to carry the same amount. I have the Butler mid-mount (their most space efficient design) with fresh water and 110 recovery tank and an extended van. Due to Butler's build and inefficient use of space I can carry less than I could with a non extended van with a CDS or Pro-1200.
• Mark's design, I am sure is awesome (and Bob likes it,) you may want to see if it will work for you. Didn't for me. A personal preference.
• Butler's makes sure the van is better equipped to handle the load and had more years to perfect their "old" design. So probably somewhat less issues.
• Butler's reel (if you get the electric one) is more awkward to roll the hoses (too wide) and holds less than the Ryko I had that was narrower, easier to roll the hoses on and held more hose. You have to have the engine working to roll (supposedly not to tax the battery) which is a little of a nuisance. My Ryko did not have a single issue with battery.
• Butler's metering system does not work as accurately as the CDS.
• If, as I think you mentioned, all you want is a unit for 5 years. Both will be just fine

Did I mention, as they said at the very end of Some Like It Hot - "Nobody is perfect"

Thank you, Ofer.


Actual great info.

 

[Bob Pruitt]

I'd go with the Hydramaster.

We were comparing CDS machines. I have owned several of the HydraMaster CDS units in the past...so like I said.IMO.
The Titan 575 is a very good machine from what I have been told.

 

[jcooper]

It’s a business, not a hobby.

I’ll ask it again. Will the Butler make more money?

I do agree, technically a new tm shouldn't make you more money.


However, maybe the new unit/set up is more user friendly, easier to set up, on board water, fancy van, and so on, maybe the user might be more inclined to do an occasional extra job or work on a Saturday because the new rig is fun(or has to be paid for!).


I'm actually banking on being able to get at least a few more jobs done a month during busy time to justify a new set up. Heck, having on board water would put me in a better mood! Especially in this crazy -5 crap!

 

[Mikey P]

Had three CDS's (not the 4.8) Pro- 1200 and currently a Butler- extra heat and bigger blower option.

• Butler is hotter than my previous CDS but I did not have the Salsa, so heat may be similar.
• Butler has better recovery.
• Unless you like doing lots of maintenance and filling forms every single freaking week and more. Butler's warranty (the famous 10 years) imho is a joke. Not worth it for me. And if a part goes bad you are not likely to have that part locally and will need their expedited shipping which cost $$$$ Unless you are willing to sit and wait.
• Butler definitely easier to service and everything is more accessible.
• So far, my Butler has been the only unit that did not have a single issue from day one. All the rest (including my 1200) had some kinks. Not sure if that is typical for Butler or just luck.
• Butler's stainless steel tank is definitely nice. CDS aluminum tanks will many times have corrosion and other issues. All of mine did and one started leaking at the water outlet weld.
• Anybody that his CDS is "junk" after 5 years is not servicing his unit correctly.
• Resale difference, considering difference in cost evens out. Its a wash.
• CDS shaft needs greasing (hard to reach and dirty work) Butler is greaseless.
• CDS will allow you to carry more equipment and or have a smaller van (non extended) if you choose and still be able to carry the same amount. I have the Butler mid-mount (their most space efficient design) with fresh water and 110 recovery tank and an extended van. Due to Butler's build and inefficient use of space I can carry less than I could with a non extended van with a CDS or Pro-1200.
• Mark's design, I am sure is awesome (and Bob likes it,) you may want to see if it will work for you. Didn't for me. A personal preference.
• Butler's makes sure the van is better equipped to handle the load and had more years to perfect their "old" design. So probably somewhat less issues.
• Butler's reel (if you get the electric one) is more awkward to roll the hoses (too wide) and holds less than the Ryko I had that was narrower, easier to roll the hoses on and held more hose. You have to have the engine working to roll (supposedly not to tax the battery) which is a little of a nuisance. My Ryko did not have a single issue with battery.
• Butler's metering system does not work as accurately as the CDS.
• If, as I think you mentioned, all you want is a unit for 5 years. Both will be just fine

Did I mention, as they said at the very end of Some Like It Hot - "Nobody is perfect"

What is "Mark's design"?

 

[Worker]

Fantastic and very educational info. I am very thankful of each member.

Btw, I tend to do better and work more passionately when I treat a job or business as a hobby for some reason. Less pressure and I enjoy it that much more - plus all my clients notice and appreciate my positive vibe as well.

Also, I would have looked into buying the entire truck and setup package from them, however I wasn't sure how I was progressing, plus I hadn't even heard of Butler at that time. I had a chance to opt for the Hydramaster van and mount package, but I figured I could save more on the truck and acquire a lower APR. I purchased a '19 3500 6.0 V8 Express Extended with MSRP of $39,3xx for $28,8xx before tt&l @ 2.49% APR. Granted, I'm paying for shipping but I'm glad Butler is splitting that with me more so than usual when they normally don't. Thank you, Butler.

Also, I followed the advice for seeking the Saiger set up, although with the 110 gallon tank and not the 200+ gallon, and then going for the 2 inch hose compared to 2.5 inch. Hopefully, I'm making the right move here.

Please feel free to correct me. I know I'm not doing everything perfect but I'm willing to learn and get better.

 

[hogjowl]

You really don’t want any of us calling you,

 

[ruff]

What is "Mark's design"?

Nothing major. The 2.5", Y and other little tweaks that mark likes. I know they work great for him and bob likes them, not for me. It is all personal.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Congratulations!!!

 

[hogjowl]

Thumper is more like it

 

[Desk Jockey]

Thumper is more like it

Shut up, he got what he wanted.

Must have used vaseline, not even a whimper over $7k.

 

[Cleanworks]

Fantastic and very educational info. I am very thankful of each member.

Btw, I tend to do better and work more passionately when I treat a job or business as a hobby for some reason. Less pressure and I enjoy it that much more - plus all my clients notice and appreciate my positive vibe as well.

Also, I would have looked into buying the entire truck and setup package from them, however I wasn't sure how I was progressing, plus I hadn't even heard of Butler at that time. I had a chance to opt for the Hydramaster van and mount package, but I figured I could save more on the truck and acquire a lower APR. I purchased a '19 3500 6.0 V8 Express Extended with MSRP of $39,3xxx for $28,8xx before tt&l @ 2.49% APR. Granted, I'm paying for shipping but I'm glad Butler is splitting that with me more so than usual when they normally don't. Thank you, Butler.

Also, I followed the advice for seeking the Saiger set up, although with the 110 gallon tank and not the 200+ gallon, and then going for the 2 inch hose compared to 2.5 inch. Hopefully, I'm making the right move here.

Please feel free to correct me. I know I'm not doing everything perfect but I'm willing to learn and get better.

Are you getting the high and max airflow version?

 

[Worker]

Are you getting the high and max airflow version?

The quote and invoice does mention:

"47-3 Oil & Oil Butler Maximum Vacuum/Blower for max heat system"

"KP250100KIT - Butler Maximum Heat Exchange System "

* The only two things I'm different is staying with 2 inch hose vs 2.5 inch, and staying with 110 gallon fresh water tank vs 200+ gallon.

Please feel free to advise on any changes or updates so that I may take into consideration.

Thank you sincerely.

 

[Desk Jockey]

High heat is great. So is the 210 recovery tank.

 

[hogjowl]

I’d stay with 2 inch too

 

[Worker]

Shut up, he got what he wanted.

Must have used vaseline, not even a whimper over $7k.

Thankfully and if I'm not mistaken, it ended up between $5-6k since Butler helped me as I was facing a disadvantage on shipping back and forth.

 

[Worker]

High heat is great. So is the 210 recovery tank.

I've been hinted towards leaning with the 110 gallon freshwater tank. I'm open to thoughts on if it would be much wiser to opt for 210 gallon?

 

[Cleanworks]

I've been advised of staying with the 110 gallon freshwater tank. I'm open to thoughts on if it would be much wiser to opt for 210 gallon?

The 210 tank allows you to do multiple or large jobs without dumping. The 110 tank can fill up on one large, heavily soiled job. The 210 takes up more space. Think about your operation before you decide.

 

[Worker]

The 210 tank allows you to do multiple or large jobs without dumping. The 110 tank can fill up on one large, heavily soiled job. The 210 takes up more space. Think about your operation before you decide.

Thank you for clarifying. From what I was advised, most opt for the 110 tank and it may be sufficient most of the time. I suppose I'll keep my fingers crossed with the 110 tank for a newcomer like myself...

 

[Desk Jockey]

The 210 tank allows you to do multiple or large jobs without dumping. The 110 tank can fill up on one large, heavily soiled job. The 210 takes up more space. Think about your operation before you decide.

Its saves you from worrying about where to dump. One of the best features Butler has. Both of our Butlers have the 210. If Prochem offered it, all our trucks would have 210 tanks.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Thank you for clarifying. From what I was advised, most opt for the 110 tank and it may be sufficient most of the time. I suppose I'll keep my fingers crossed with the 110 tank for a newcomer like myself...

The only downfall the 110 has on the 210 is if your area is very strict on dumping your water. If you're in an area like mine where nobody really cares...the 110 is all you need. I'd rather have more room in the van than more storage of my poo water

 

[FB7777]

It’s a business, not a hobby.

I’ll ask it again. Will the Butler make more money?

Disclosure; I've never owned a hydramaster CDS so my opinion is biased and not based on experience


I believe the Butler WILL make you more money but not in the context of how your asking the question

You can't charge more because you own one

However, based on the build quality , you are going to have a solid reliable working unit with minimal downtime


Having said that, you may have a very reliable and great experience with your JonDon distributor


Ideally you would have purchased a system and van from Butler, flown out taken a tour and had them acquaint you with their system and driven back

Either unit it going to be reliable, flip,a,coin and then pull the trigger


Then you can focus on what REALLY makes you money in business

 

[steve_64]

Its saves you from worrying about where to dump. One of the best features Butler has. Both of our Butlers have the 210. If Prochem offered it, all our trucks would have 210 tanks.

I carry my own water. I fill and dump at home so I prefer the waste tank to match my fresh water. If I'm out of water I'm ready to dump too.
If someone is hooking up to customers water regularly why get a 100 gallon fresh? A 60 gallon should be more than enough. But then a larger waste tank would be a great help.
I much prefer my WM layout to the butler and the 56 blower.

 

[Bob Savage]

How would you like a truckmount that will clean all day long and you never have to stop and dump the recovery tank? I have 2 truckmounts, a slide-in and an ETM.

That's what I have in both of my truckmounts, and one of my truckmounts has two 9 gallon recovery tanks (dual wand system) that never need conventional dumping. A reliable APO is the answer.

When you carry around all of that extra weight all day long you are taxing your vehicle with a lot of extra weight, and consuming more fuel as you drive!

I will tell you what makes you money - knowledge, a good rapport with your client base, hard work, and a system that is reliable and supplies you with endless reliability for years on end - 34 years in business and still using the same original 2 truckmounts that perform as well or better than most other machines out there!! Take care of your stuff and it will take care of you. In 34 years neither of my truckmounts has ever been to a repair facility. I have been through 5 vans over the years.

 

[FB7777]

Nice to see Brokum chime in

 

[hogjowl]

I’m waiting on Duane to chime in

 

[allclean_nj1]

Fantastic and very educational info. I am very thankful of each member.

Btw, I tend to do better and work more passionately when I treat a job or business as a hobby for some reason. Less pressure and I enjoy it that much more - plus all my clients notice and appreciate my positive vibe as well.

Also, I would have looked into buying the entire truck and setup package from them, however I wasn't sure how I was progressing, plus I hadn't even heard of Butler at that time. I had a chance to opt for the Hydramaster van and mount package, but I figured I could save more on the truck and acquire a lower APR. I purchased a '19 3500 6.0 V8 Express Extended with MSRP of $39,3xx for $28,8xx before tt&l @ 2.49% APR. Granted, I'm paying for shipping but I'm glad Butler is splitting that with me more so than usual when they normally don't. Thank you, Butler.

Also, I followed the advice for seeking the Saiger set up, although with the 110 gallon tank and not the 200+ gallon, and then going for the 2 inch hose compared to 2.5 inch. Hopefully, I'm making the right move here.

Please feel free to correct me. I know I'm not doing everything perfect but I'm willing to learn and get better.

Butler all the way !! 210 tank is a must ..it will save u time .. having to empty.. electric reel and exhaust heat is a must ..these trucks are built like tanks .. We ran a 2.5 hose out the front using a cool cuff filter instead of theirs .... theses trucks don't brake much... any shop can work on them..there made for dummies...like my nephew..lol

 

[Worker]

Butler all the way !! 210 tank is a must ..it will save u time .. having to empty.. electric reel and exhaust heat is a must ..these trucks are built like tanks .. We ran a 2.5 hose out the front using a cool cuff filter instead of theirs .... theses trucks don't brake much... any shop can work on them..there made for dummies...like my nephew..lol

Thank you. I went back and forth with the 210 vs 110. I believe I was explained that the new design mid-mount 110 is what most folks go with, plus it matches the other tank and saved space along with not worrying about a ton of water weight carried around as well. 2 inch hose with 110 tanks and everything else max power and heat looked like where it was at for me. I know I could have done this and that, but for a newcomer, I have a lot on my plate and I opted for the best option and fit for what I was going to use day-in and day-out. I may have to empty out the 110 more frequently, however, I wouldn't want to carry the 210's heavier water and burden around anyway. Hopefully, I did okay.

 

[Cleanworks]

Thank you. I went back and forth with the 210 vs 110. I believe I was explained that the new design mid-mount 110 is what most folks go with, plus it matches the other tank and saved space and a ton of water weight carried around as well. 2 inch hose with 110 tanks and everything else max power and heat look like where it's at for me. I know I could have done this and that, but for a newcomer, I got a lot on my plate and I opted for the best option and fit for what I was going to use day-in and day-out. I may have to empty out the 110 more frequently, however, I wouldn't want to carry the 210 heavier water around anyway. Hopefully, I did okay.

You did fine. You'll have a nice, reliable unit for years to come. If you need to do larger jobs you can get an auto pump out. Built in or inline.