Carpet presprays that work on tile and stone..

[Mikey P]

Maybe you formulators can tell us how one is really different than the other for it's intended purposes (might as well go over the difference between laundry detergent and carpet detergent while you have your Latin to English thesauruses out)


I was recently sent a jug of Chemspec Enzall to play with and while not on their website, on the jug they claim it to be great for hard surfaces when applied by mop and bucket.


and it is.

I've cleaned a hand full of jobs now where I've been VERY impressed with the results. Considering it as not Oxy in it, even more so, though I admit to adding some 02 on a job yesterday out of fear of the grout never been sealed.


Cobbs Powermax and Judson SnG are two that claim to be switch hitters, what other carpet presprays have you used that really kick ass on tile?

 

[Jtuseo]

I use Judson slop and gobble on dirty tile and it works great.

Maybe you formulators can tell us how one is really different than the other for it's intended purposes (might as well go over the difference between laundry detergent and carpet detergent while you have your Latin to English thesauruses out)


I was recently sent a jug of Chemspec Enzall to play with and while not on their website, on the jug they claim it to be great for hard surfaces when applied by mop and bucket.


and it is.

I've cleaned a hand full of jobs now where I've been VERY impressed with the results. Considering it as not Oxy in it, even more so, though I admit to adding some 02 on a job yesterday out of fear of the grout never been sealed.


Cobbs Powermax and Judson SnG are two that claim to be switch hitters, what other carpet presprays have you used that really kick ass on tile?

 

[Hoody]

CTI's Extreme Clean works really well too.

 

[packfancjh]

I have a few customers that use Pro Zyme on hard surfaces and love it

 

[hogjowl]

This is the reason I use Judson O2 and the booster powder. O2 alone, or with the booster will clean almost everything we rountinely encounter.

 

[SamIam]

Flex powder with citrus works too, seems to be the most like oxyblaster.

Enzall has a lot of SP and a high ph also the enzymes work on foods and oils I like it as a back up.

If I'm cleaning next to grungy tile I will over spray a little on the tile and steam it with a glided wand no scrubbing, a little accidentally on purpose demo, got a few jobs doing that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Enzall has a lot of SP ....

Who told you that? (Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Percarbonate, are not the same thing) About as different as Water and Hydrogen Peroxide. (mArty explanation)

Enz-All has Sodium Carbonate as an alkline builder.

A little more:
Sodium Carbonate is a multi-purpose alkaline builder, that is used on a variety of cleaning formulations, and is usually the primary constituent of powder laundry detergents. It is a little lesser used in carpet cleaning formulations, second to Sodium Tripolyphosphate. Sodium PerCarbonate uses Sodium Carbonate in it's manufacture, as it is the solid binding agent used to take liquid hydrogen peroxide as a resultant loosely bound chemical compound. In water (hotter the better), the SP "degrades" into hydrogen peroxide, oxygen, water, and sodium carbonate. The hydrogen peroxide itself further degrades into more oxygen and water. It is the released oxygen during this degradation that provides a bleaching action, as the oxygen serves to oxidize certain soils.

If Chemspec is now adding Sodium Percarbonate to Enz-All, that is a new revelation, not documented in the MSDS or other specification details that I have.

But heck yea. Enz-All is quite a decent hard surface cleaner, especially where edible oils and greases are evident.

 

[davegillfishing]

Cobs powermax. Been using it for years switching from carpet and tile. Safe if sprayed on stainless and wood. No reason to use anything else in my opinion.

 

[SamIam]

Who told you that? (Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Percarbonate, are not the same thing) About as different as Water and Hydrogen Peroxide. (mArty explanation)

Enz-All has Sodium Carbonate as an alkline builder.

A little more:
Sodium Carbonate is a multi-purpose alkaline builder, that is used on a variety of cleaning formulations, and is usually the primary constituent of powder laundry detergents. It is a little lesser used in carpet cleaning formulations, second to Sodium Tripolyphosphate. Sodium PerCarbonate uses Sodium Carbonate in it's manufacture, as it is the solid binding agent used to take liquid hydrogen peroxide as a resultant loosely bound chemical compound. In water (hotter the better), the SP "degrades" into hydrogen peroxide, oxygen, water, and sodium carbonate. The hydrogen peroxide itself further degrades into more oxygen and water. It is the released oxygen during this degradation that provides a bleaching action, as the oxygen serves to oxidize certain soils.

If Chemspec is now adding Sodium Percarbonate to Enz-All, that is a new revelation, not documented in the MSDS or other specification details that I have.

But heck yea. Enz-All is quite a decent hard surface cleaner, especially where edible oils and greases are evident.

And thats why I should have sat in your class at Mikefest instead of that horror show called crime scene clean up, because Your killing me Forsythe!

I guess thats what happens when You assume, So the sodium carbonate has no brightening value or oxygen release? It seems to knock down urine stain pretty good to.

 

[Hoody]

Sodium Carbonate is also known as soda ash. They're probably using it as a softening agent as its pretty good at softening water. Its also in some foods, and toothpaste as well. I believe it only temporarily raises pH while its reacting, so it could also be used a catalyst.

 

[FLYERMAN]

We got some brains up in this internet hood.

 

[KevinL]

Always have.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mikey;

Sodium Carbonate is not a builder I would use in a carpet formulation.

For grout & tile, we use our PowerMax, with some additional Powder Brightener (SP).

The combined level of oxidizers help remove all those layers of "mopwater residue" effectively.

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

Why not Larry?

 

[Larry Cobb]

Why not Larry?

Sodium Carbonate deposits a grey residue, even in laundry detergents,

where rinsing is more through than carpet extraction.

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

News to me.

Is this opinion or fact?

Link please..

 

[Total Cleaning]

We officially retired and stopped using viper renew after finding this fusion 3.0. Its the only prespray my techs only will use now on carpet and tile/grout. The buytl cough has is gone and no more worrying about etching issues on stainless. Having almost used up an entire 5 gal pale. Its the best performing juice on the market bar none. Here is a job we did few days ago.

 

[FredC]

Carl,

Forgive my suspicion but....why is it almost every time you drop in you mention that product and participate very little otherwise? This seems to be the case on other forums also.
You seem to have joined forums around the same time as the manufacturer and immediately used terms that most noobs are unfamiliar with (one of the things we found to be odd with the manufacturer)

Why do none of your IPs on record seem to match your location?

 

[Mikey P]

Lol..

Is that Dirty Job?

Leave him on Fred, just turn off his PM privileges..

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Sodium TripolyPhosphate is the popular preferred alkaline builder in powder cleaning formulations of all types, because of it's "bang for the buck" value, and other desirable physical characteristics. So, why don't all manufacturers treat it as such? The bottom line is regulations, product certifications (e.g. GreanSeal), and how a particular manufacturer might choose to market the product for acceptance. Sodium Carbonate found most favor when US EPA identified phosphates as detrimental to the environment. As a result, several decades ago US EPA regulated phosphates out of existence in most consumer products. Hence, Sodium TripolyPhosphate was essentially taken away from consumers, but not so for industrial and commercial uses. It was reasoned that the reduction in environmental impact would be substantial enough if only consumer products were devoid of phosphates.

Manufacturers of powdered laundry detergents (because they are consumer products) had to "formulate" a "plan-B". Sodium Carbonate (AKA Soda Ash was a less expensive alternative builder, and it contains no phosphorus (Phosphates). Being less expensive, everything is OK, right? No, not actually. Soda Ash is harder to dissolve in cold water, isn't as chemically reactive as a builder as STPP, and has a few other negatives . The laundry industry has been instrumental in creating textured Soda Ash to make it more free flowing with liquid additives, like surfactants, fragrances, cosolvents, etc. As well as making them easier to dissolve. But the greatest reason for its use in commercial and industrial products, I think, is the 50 state acceptability of the product. You see, even though Federally, it is just fine to use phosphates, some states have laws that are more strictly interpreted to make phosphates much more regulated than they are Federally. Hence, if you are functionally able to eliminate phosphates, you may have an advantage. Maybe not entirely today, but any day that a particular state gets a notion to crack down.

There is also another reason for Carpet Cleaning Manufacturers will use a phosphate-free builder like Soda Ash. It is for Green Seal compliance. However, as I will explain, it doesn't necessarily mean a level playing field. The GS-37 standard specifies that cleaning products for industrial or institutional us (all us guys), as used shall not contain more than 0.5% by weight of total phosphorus. Notice I underlined and bolded the words "as used" in that last sentence. A small minority of , "less than mainstream" manufactures have exploited this as an apparent loophole. Certain GS-37 compliant products get around the rather low permissible phosphate level by specifying ridiculous usage ("as used") instructions of super light dilution that make the resultant usage mixture have the requisite low phosphate level. All the manufacturer must do is state in fine print, that when the product is used in that particular manner, on "really light soiling", the product is GS-37 compliant. In big print, you are free to claim the product itself is GreenSeal approved. Never mind that only a handful of users will actually only use that incredibility light dilution, only once, when they find it doesn't work. Then they go ahead and mix it much more strongly.

 

[Mikey P]

Can we get back to Larry's comment, I have a hard time believing that a company like Chemspec would have used an ingredient that would leave fabrics "grey"..


maybe a back yard manufacture could make that mistake but a company that large and with such history?



hard to believe.

 

[J Scott W]

Flex Powder with Citrus Solv works well on ceramic tile, grout and many hard surfaces.

The presprays that work well on tile tend to have rather high pH. Just because a carpet prespray can work on tile, don't assume that it always works the other way around. A tile prespray on carpet may have too much pH or alkalinity.

 

[Weebco]

Mikey;

Sodium Carbonate is not a builder I would use in a carpet formulation.

For grout & tile, we use our PowerMax, with some additional Powder Brightener (SP).

The combined level of oxidizers help remove all those layers of "mopwater residue" effectively.

Larry

I agree with Larry although I don't need any extra brighteners because of the incredible heat I get from my new Dragon!!!

 

[SamIam]

I think after you use whatever product the fresh water rinse will remove any residue?

 

[Jim Martin]

Cobs powermax. Been using it for years switching from carpet and tile. Safe if sprayed on stainless and wood. No reason to use anything else in my opinion.

how are you mixing this..........

 

[davegillfishing]

jim all my trucks have a chapin 22079 pump up sprayer on them and we mix the powermax pretty hot..1 oz a gallon for most jobs but as the dirt gets worse the pre spray gets stronger.

we have a little lower mix rate because we run ro/di water.

my guys would freak out of i ever switched from powermax..its so easy and safe to use..i waould truly have a hard time finding such a complete product that meets our needs and exceeds them.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Thanks, Dave.

For cleaners without RO water, I would definitely mix stronger.

Grout usually has many layers of dirty "mop water".

I would start out with 3 oz. of PowerMax . . .

and 1 oz of Powder Brightener (oxidizer) per gallon for dirty grout.

Extra PowerMax & Powder Brightener will save LABOR.

Larry

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Prochem Powerstrike, CleanStreak

 

[Goldenboy]

Crazy Ray must have typed up the dilutions wrong on the Powermax label. All you need is 2 ounces per gallon for your Pre Spray.

Golden Boy