Check My Bid That I Got Beat For

[Jeremy N]

Alright dudes, I got a call from the private school that my son goes to. They wanted a price to clean the entire middle school. Turned out to be 16,000sqft, 21 areas including hallways. The classrooms needs desks/furniture moved all over and things needs prevac. Moderate stains all over. I figured a steam clean and Cimex encapped on some areas. My price was $1800 and some change. I got a call this morning and was told that they are going with the guy that is half the price. He said the cleaning may not be better but he had to go with the lower guy. I did not try to fight it because I have relationships with people there that are important to me. I explained a little and the let it go, no hard feelings.

Anyway, I'm not cleaning that place for $900. Screw that, man it's a lot of work. I don't do much carpet cleaning but it seems like it may be more than a day for my and a helper, right?

What would you have bid?

 

[John Olson]

Way more then you bid....He bid it at less then .06 if he is hot water extracting it is costing him at least that with cheap labor and even cheaper chems. 16000 ft I would drop to .18 but hell I was at .18 sqft 15 years ago. If you are paying your Technician (I said Tech not helper) a living wage ($20+ per hour with base+commission) then you would lose money at .06 I am not sure how you came up with 1800 as that is low other then you decided to do some charity work even with the encap. 16000 feet in a commerical setting is 18 hours at least (with 3 guys 2 cleaning 1 pulling hoses)unless you encap a LOT. So total man hours 54 so lets figure you and the tech are making $20 plus he gets overtime if he worked more then 8 hours in a day or if he goes over 40 in the week and the hose puller is getting paid 10+ you will be over $1000 just in labor my friend.

Final Verdict-----Let the other guy that can't do math go broke.....


P.S. before anyone starts saying they can do it faster I play by the rules. The time starts from threshold to threshold not when you turn the machine ON AND OFF. (I can't believe how many do that and their tech's don't turn them in)

 

[Royal Man]

Like John said let the other guy go out of business.

0.6 cents you have to be kidding!!

25 years ago the going rate was .10-15 cents.


I would of charged 4K.

 

[Charlie Lyman]

It just wouldn't be worth it. Let that one go. I had someone ask me to reconsider my prices once because of a lower bid. I wouldn't do it. They can wear out their equipment and bodies for crap money. I'll stay home and play with the kids.

 

[davegillfishing]

3200.00 and not a single penny less.
i clean a day care around here that is 7k sqft and get .30 a sqft
and do it twice a year for the last 4 years..
walking away is best good for you to stick to your guns.

 

[floorguy]

we did a rec center that was about that big.... $.15 so right around 2400....and yes it was about 18 hrs...me and my helper (notice not tech )

the 2 of us rx it....and it was a LONG 18hrs....even if all i was doing was spraying and moving hose...



SCREW $900

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Twice a year i do a school that approx 27,000 sq ft, I charge .15 a sq ft. I encap about 80% of the school and HWE the other 20%. I got the account because a low baller that did a terrible job, they used him for about a year before they got tired of the wick backs, dingy areas and the company flaking on scheduled cleanings.

In some areas its required by law they use "green" cleaning products in school settings.. not sure because its a private school. When ever I offer a quote to anyone, be it residential or commercial i talk more about the value of my service and not focus on the price. When i talk with a customer on the phone and come to the price.. I always flow with...

"Your price is $xxx and before they have a chance to respond I go right into saying... and what we do is come in and prevac all you carpets getting about 60-80% of the dry soil out, then we prespray all your carpets and stains with a heated pretreatment... We then use a truck mounted unit that the IICRC, EPA and Carpet Manufacturers recommend is the best method to clean your carpets... We also use air movers and grrom the carpets for quick dry times, our goal is to get some of it dry by the time we leave.. We are more than happy to move most any furniture you like and we also offer a 30 day guaranteee with all cleaning." generally speaking...

With commercial estimates I always a cover letter along with more value for cleaning educations and other general items... I nail about 9 out of the 10 prospects.

You shouldnt lose this accounts its yours if you want it. Offer a payment plan for them if its all about the cost... because they are losing more by having a substandard cleaning... work with them if thats what its really about.

 

[Art Kelley]

That would be a lot of work, and I would have charged at least $1800. I could do it all in one day with my Pro1200 and the Ti wand with the occasional hi-speed prescrubbing with a 300 rpm bonnet machine (one 15 hour day starting at 7 and going to 10 or 11, non-stop by myself). If push came to shove I could do it for $1250, still a good amount of money for a day of work, but I'm not that desperate. Working that hard means you can't put in a full day the next day. You need some recovery time.

 

[bob vawter]

That would be a lot of work, and I would have charged at least $1800. I could do it all in one day with my Pro1200 and the Ti wand with the occasional hi-speed prescrubbing with a 300 rpm bonnet machine (one 15 hour day starting at 7 and going to 10 or 11, non-stop by myself). If push came to shove I could do it for $1250, still a good amount of money for a day of work, but I'm not that desperate. Working that hard means you can't put in a full day the next day. You need some recovery time.

Art...you NEED a helper.......

 

[Jeremy N]

There was never a consideration to do it for less. I was just wondering what the heck these people are doing at 900? Man, I don't even understand that.

I was trying real hard to be nice and help them out. They were gonna knock my 7k tuition down some. Dang I ain't working that hard for pennies.

 

[Jeremy N]

It would have been something like 80% encap and 20% HWE.

 

[mirf]

That would be a lot of work, and I would have charged at least $1800. I could do it all in one day with my Pro1200 and the Ti wand with the occasional hi-speed prescrubbing with a 300 rpm bonnet machine (one 15 hour day starting at 7 and going to 10 or 11, non-stop by myself). If push came to shove I could do it for $1250, still a good amount of money for a day of work, but I'm not that desperate. Working that hard means you can't put in a full day the next day. You need some recovery time.

15 hours and not working the next is harder for me than 2 eight hour days

 

[Art Kelley]

[quote="Art Kelley":1oyiwjpx]That would be a lot of work, and I would have charged at least $1800. I could do it all in one day with my Pro1200 and the Ti wand with the occasional hi-speed prescrubbing with a 300 rpm bonnet machine (one 15 hour day starting at 7 and going to 10 or 11, non-stop by myself). If push came to shove I could do it for $1250, still a good amount of money for a day of work, but I'm not that desperate. Working that hard means you can't put in a full day the next day. You need some recovery time.

15 hours and not working the next is harder for me than 2 eight hour days

[/quote:1oyiwjpx]


One thing I've found with grueling marathon days of work is how fast you do recover after a good night's sleep. In the morning I end up feeling very strong and ready to handle anything that a normal work day throws at you.

 

[Ken Snow]

They will get that price from dozens of cleaners all day long and ALL of the them will make money doing it. Because some of you won't or choose not to does not mean others will not do a great job AND make a decent profit from it.

Ken
Ps we would not have taken it for less thne .09 sq ft but I can understan that there are those that will do it or less.
pps if someone paid $30 an hours in labor an a couple hundred in supplies etc, they could easily have a profit of 300 or more on that job ay $900.00 and more in pocket if owner operator.

 

[Jeremy N]

They will get that price from dozens of cleaners all day long and ALL of the them will make money doing it. Because some of you won't or choose not to does not mean others will not do a great job AND make a decent profit from it.

Ken
Ps we would not have taken it for less thne .09 sq ft but I can understan that there are those that will do it or less.
pps if someone paid $30 an hours in labor an a couple hundred in supplies etc, they could easily have a profit of 300 or more on that job ay $900.00 and more in pocket if owner operator.

Everyone's business model is different. Not that any one is better or worse...

If my truck only made 300 profit in one day I would go out of business. If I had many trucks making 300 per day it would be a different story.

 

[XTREME1]

I charge $.22 but will drop to .16 if it is over 10,000 but I won't promise the pile lift and prevac. The huge job coming up I got .22 with pile lift and scrub. I have a huge vct job at the end of the month and I got .55 but I lost a 2800 sq ft job by $100 I came n at $600 and was recommended and they went with a guy for $500 then they called me to do the areas they weren't happy with from the other guy and I said I would need to do the whole place because it will look odd all that dirty carpet and only one clean area and it would be $600


Jeremy you would be out of business on a profit of $300 a day for 1 day, you never have a slow day?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The word "profit" is so misused and misunderstood.

Get used to downward pressure on cleaning prices, it's a fact of life. Next week is our busiest of the year...at 1990 prices.

Try to make up with hussle and productivity.

 

[Jeremy N]

I charge $.22 but will drop to .16 if it is over 10,000 but I won't promise the pile lift and prevac. The huge job coming up I got .22 with pile lift and scrub. I have a huge vct job at the end of the month and I got .55 but I lost a 2800 sq ft job by $100 I came n at $600 and was recommended and they went with a guy for $500 then they called me to do the areas they weren't happy with from the other guy and I said I would need to do the whole place because it will look odd all that dirty carpet and only one clean area and it would be $600


Jeremy you would be out of business on a profit of $300 a day for 1 day, you never have a slow day?

I've had lots of slow days. My "slow day" philosophy might be different that yours though. I do not ascribe to the theory that it's better to slave away for little that not have any. I don't like that idea. I'd rather get myself out of the field and spend that time working towards getting more better paying jobs rather than being stuck sweating in 100+ weather while the high-profit competition passes me by.

I often do WD jobs that I can make 3k and more in profit for 8 hours or less of total work. That includes set-up, moisture checks and equipment break-down. I can make 300 in profit extracting a few rooms. Why in the world would I want run my guys ragged for a few bucks?

That is just the way I see it. I'm working towards getting multi-truck crew for CCing now. I'm a rookie at that so I'm open to ideas. I don't claim to know it all.

 

[XTREME1]

yes because from the prices I listed for commercial work I am slaving away

You said you would be out of business, that was the question. Not what you would do instead

 

[John Olson]

They will get that price from dozens of cleaners all day long and ALL of the them will make money doing it. Because some of you won't or choose not to does not mean others will not do a great job AND make a decent profit from it.

Ken
Ps we would not have taken it for less thne .09 sq ft but I can understan that there are those that will do it or less.
pps if someone paid $30 an hours in labor an a couple hundred in supplies etc, they could easily have a profit of 300 or more on that job ay $900.00 and more in pocket if owner operator.

Ken i'm calling Bullshit, you math is all wrong. Even a cheap unit cost $50 per hour to run so just running the truck it would cost $900 to clean it. and that is 1 man running it add in the helper even your cheap labor and they are upside down. Please break down your math for us. You know how much it cost you for every hour your trucks run. So please share that with us. The average owner operator is between $53 and $73 per hour the truck runs whats your numbers?

 

[XTREME1]

John I just did a quick summary of what it costs to run the APEX for the last 2000 hrs based on $16,000 purchase price of that one and it came down to $12.43 for gas, maintenance, chems and purchase. What else am I missing that will make much of a difference The EVEREST was just over $13.75

 

[Ken Snow]

Whatever you want to say is ok john. A job like that is going to be cleaned most likely at 2k+ sq ft an hour so the math is quite diff than you impy.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Ken Snow]

I know greg- our cost is actually a little bit less but not too far off.

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[John Olson]

John I just did a quick summary of what it costs to run the APEX for the last 2000 hrs based on $16,000 purchase price of that one and it came down to $12.43 for gas, maintenance, chems and purchase. What else am I missing that will make much of a difference The EVEREST was just over $13.75

Then you did your math wrong or you run 4000 hours a year. Take every business cost every single one then divide that by the hours.'that gives you your number you also have to include replacement cost amortized out even if the machine is paid for. The math isn't hard but I got a grand in my pocket that says your numbers are wrong.

 

[XTREME1]

why when we do so many different things. It isn't all on the machine. We do probably $50,000 in VCT a year. We wash tons of rugs, why does all the business expenses go to the machine?

 

[Jeremy N]

yes because from the prices I listed for commercial work I am slaving away

You said you would be out of business, that was the question. Not what you would do instead

I would prefer to not make it habit of making 300 per day. If I did I would probably walk away from this deal. I personally am not interested in living off of 300 per day even if all of that money went straight into my pocket tax free. That's really what I am saying. That is way below my goal. I would rather spend my time selling and working towards scoring future jobs that pay well. I see that s a better use of my time. That's just me though. I really have no opinion on how anyone else does it. That's cool with me. There are many ways of doing business and many ways are right.

I didn't answer the question personally towards you about slaving away. You took that the wrong way, vato. I am saying that to me, I consider that working too hard for too little. I've worked for less many times in my life. I have also had times when I had plenty. I'm aiming for profitability. That's just me ad not a judgment on how anyone else does it.

 

[John Olson]

I'm surprised you of all people Ken don't know your math. Gas alone cost you $4 employees cost you a least another 20 or do you only pay when it is running? So you want to take my bet? I got a grand in my pocket wanting to triple

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I guess your numbers could be that high if you included enough "stuff", or if you had a problematic machine?

I prefer zero-based budgeting with each expense being actually justified to produce the income, and eliminated if it proved NOT to do so.

 

[John Olson]

Greg how much do you pay a day in labor for the carpet truck? How much for gas? How much per day for insurance? How much per day for maintenance? Oil changes fires shocks brakes windshields etc? How much for the telephone Internet web pages etc? These are direct cost associated with how much it cost you to run that machine. It is the easiest way to know if you are making or losing money. Will this number change? A little yes but I have yet to see any true numbers lower the. $50 per hour. Like I said just gas and labor and nothin else cost you more then what you quoted.

 

[Shane Deubell]

This is not a formal company, this is just a guy and his son making $800 for a couple days work.