Check My Bid That I Got Beat For

[XTREME1]

I told you what the number was for and he is an O/O so no labor. I have heard the $43 and $50 numbers and that is bull. I wouldn't have taken that job at those numbers but the cost of running a TM for $73 an hour is absolutely ridiculous. Hey you have been around longer and have deeper pockets so you may be right

 

[John Olson]

So an owner operator works for free? I know I feel that way sometimes but really? Greg your a smart man but that was the dumbest thing you have ever said.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Each operation has different fixed and marginal costs. I'd guess Ken knows his numbers better than most of us.

For me there are also the costs/value of seeing my sons have enough work to feed their families....versus the wear and tear on dear old dad.

We can make money on jobs some others can't. Often that is because of the referral value of the job over the long run.

 

[joe harper]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

John I just did a quick summary of what it costs to run the APEX for the last 2000 hrs based on $16,000 purchase price of that one and it came down to $12.43 for gas, maintenance, chems and purchase. What else am I missing that will make much of a difference The EVEREST was just over $13.75

Then you did your math wrong or you run 4000 hours a year. Take every business cost every single one then divide that by the hours.'that gives you your number you also have to include replacement cost amortized out even if the machine is paid for. The math isn't hard but I got a grand in my pocket that says your numbers are wrong.

John..."You are just shoving hay up a dead ..horses ass..!"

These guys, have NO idea what their business cost them to operate... :roll:
That is why ...I cringe when they say.."SURE , I did the job cheap...BUT I made a $100.00
an hour.." !dork! !dork! !dork! !dork! !dork!

John's numbers are "DEAD-ON" even a little LOW, if you don't own your equipment OUTRIGHT.

The commercial market is OVER... :shock: ... for the O/O...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is FUNNY how the "EncRaPPer'S"....whine & scream ....when the get beat @ their own game.!
The .."sCruB & RuN".. has hit the WALL...

Ken is right that SOMEONE will come and to the job for EVEN less.... :shock:

BUT...He should be ASHAMED at the numbers he tried to JusTiFy... :roll: :roll:

Watch the .."COMING ATTRACTION'S"
When Mr.Snow...realizes...He has NOW become a "HIGH-END" cleaning company at his current
"AFFORDABLE" pricing modle... :shock: When his "ADD-ON" sales fall off by 25%..he will be
looking for a GurU position on the BB'S... :mrgreen:

KEN....doesn't have the LUXURY of walking away from CASH-FLOW.... !gotcha!
Those BUTLER'S....will turn into pick-up truck's & porty's...and Ken will be subbing for "COLE"

 

[Art Kelley]

[...and Ken will be subbing for "COLE"

I think we will all end up subbing for "Cole" at some point. thathurts

 

[XTREME1]

So an owner operator works for free? I know I feel that way sometimes but really? Greg your a smart man but that was the dumbest thing you have ever said.

He makes Profit depending on how he is set up and that was the discussion and no I have said some really dumb things and that one isn't the dumbest

 

[Mike Draper]

John I just did a quick summary of what it costs to run the APEX for the last 2000 hrs based on $16,000 purchase price of that one and it came down to $12.43 for gas, maintenance, chems and purchase. What else am I missing that will make much of a difference The EVEREST was just over $13.75

Insurance, marketing, maintanence.

So your saying if you put 1000 hours per year on your truck, all your insurance, fuel, marketing, maintanence, chemicals, etc, etc for business overhead only came to $12,430.00? :roll: :roll: You need to get a better calculator.

 

[Billy]

You did good just walking away with no hard feelings.

I can say they would have had a heart attack if we bid it though not to mention we no longer give many Free estimates either.

 

[Ken Snow]

He didn't say anything about fixed costs or advertising. We are having 2 diff discussions and frankly I am questioning john's business acumen after his comments.

I love harpman but he also comes from his own experiences. It's all good guys, I really don't need to measure my dick against yours and wish you were less insulting and ask question s rather than sling baseless comments.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Billy]

He didn't say anything about fixed costs or advertising. We are having 2 diff discussions and frankly I am questioning john's business acumen after his comments.

I love harpman but he also comes from his own experiences. It's all good guys, I really don't need to measure my dick against yours and wish you were less insulting and ask question s rather than sling baseless comments.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I agree Ken one of the GREAT things about being self employed is being able to run things the way you want to. One thing I have learned in my short time in business is there is no cut & dry best way to do things. One of my best friends is much lower priced & IMO more successful than me.

 

[John Olson]

So you think knowing ones true numbers isn't insightful Ken? I want everyone to be successful but you cannot grow if you do not measure. I am really surprised you can't rattle these numbers off the top of your head.

 

[John Olson]

He didn't say anything about fixed costs or advertising. We are having 2 diff discussions and frankly I am questioning john's business acumen after his comments.

I love harpman but he also comes from his own experiences. It's all good guys, I really don't need to measure my dick against yours and wish you were less insulting and ask question s rather than sling baseless comments.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I agree Ken one of the GREAT things about being self employed is being able to run things the way you want to. One thing I have learned in my short time in business is there is no cut & dry best way to do things. One of my best friends is much lower priced & IMO more successful than me.

Success means different things to different men Billy. You need to define success so you can measure and then reach success. Not knowing is just guessing and that's is ok but I don't want my friends to just guess I want them to know and achieve.

 

[Ken Snow]

I can rattle most of the numbers for 3 divisions and 6 profit centers just within my cleaning business John. I can also rattle off many numbers of our retail business (4 showrooms &n 5 profit centers) but not nearly as well. What is your point and why would you think I can't John?

 

[Out of Character - 0]

We all have very different business and from their we can choose to look at them different ways. Comparing the cost of machines and trucks is easy because they have relatively fixed costs to run and purchase.

Comparing businesses is tricky because there is nothing but variables. I like to look at each type of service we offer as it's own business. I factor in each services percentage of our cost or and hypothetical cost for everything. I include hypothetical cost for things that I could have paid for but just did myself and things that will be required once a certain size/volume is reached. From the time we pull into a driveway to the time we leave, carpet cleaning "cost me" $120-$130hr for 2 techs with a tm and the company behind them.

 

[joe harper]

I can rattle most of the numbers for 3 divisions and 6 profit centers just within my cleaning business John. I can also rattle off many numbers of our retail business (4 showrooms &n 5 profit centers) but not nearly as well. What is your point and why would you think I can't John?

SOMEBODY........JUST TOOK THEIR DICK OUT......

"Your Honor"...."I OBJECT to the bOaStinG of the witness."
"Please direct the witness to JUST ...answer the question..."..... :mrgreen:

 

[joe harper]

I BELIEVE...
John was just using the TM as a "constant" in the equation of total operating cost ?

Most here operate some type of TM...It is the HEART of our businesses... :idea:

The REAL issue was to point out that MANY..here need to know their operating cost of
any service performed...to reach a desirable PROFIT...!

START-UP COST.... are the same for a $100.00 job as a $10K job... :idea:

Soooo.....if you are driving a 60K TM unit to perform a EnCraP job..START-UP is the same...

I just find it HillaRioUs...To see a Vortex or A-Tech....pull-up to a commercial job and pull
off 3 SLIME-EX's....

 

[Billy]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Success means different things to different men Billy. You need to define success so you can measure and then reach success. Not knowing is just guessing and that's is ok but I don't want my friends to just guess I want them to know and achieve.

Yes I agree there are many ways to measure true success & as far as Im concerned true success is not about $$$$s because what means more to me is my Family & being able to sleep at night knowing IMO I didn't do someone wrong.

As for numbers I believe Ken knows those numbers & it is his right to not share & really what difference does it make what his numbers are? As for me I am very private with details but it isn't that long ago that people said I couldn't buy the BigBearTruck & was all talk. My family works hard & we get paid well when we do or we don't work.

I also am confused as to how this post has turned into numbers rather than what the OP originally started. Maybe I didn't read everything well.


Again I agree with you & all True Success is only in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Mikey P]

good timing..

my "biggest" regular commercial job just booked for next weekend.

a stunning 6000 sq ft. :shock: :shock: :shock:


My Techs be lugging my SlimEX over there in our Vortex and getting a whopping .30 a foot.





Just waiting for Cintas to steal it out from under me.

 

[John Olson]

I can rattle most of the numbers for 3 divisions and 6 profit centers just within my cleaning business John. I can also rattle off many numbers of our retail business (4 showrooms &n 5 profit centers) but not nearly as well. What is your point and why would you think I can't John?

And that is why you shouldn't spout nonsense Ken people look to you as an example. Stating it cost you less then $13 an hour to run a truck doesn't help anyone especially when you know you cannot run it for that. Telling these guys they can work 18 hours for 900 and they can make $300 is dangerous Ken when it comes from you as someone just might believe it. You should know better......

This isn't about me being smart as I'm not but I can add and divide and my only skin in this game is to help those that don't understand the simplest form of job costing. There is far more it as you know but for most guys here just this one little step might save them from paying someone to work....

 

[John Olson]

I can rattle most of the numbers for 3 divisions and 6 profit centers just within my cleaning business John. I can also rattle off many numbers of our retail business (4 showrooms &n 5 profit centers) but not nearly as well. What is your point and why would you think I can't John?

And that is why you shouldn't spout nonsense Ken people look to you as an example. Stating it cost you less then $13 an hour to run a truck doesn't help anyone especially when you know you cannot run it for that. Telling these guys they can work 18 hours for 900 and they can make $300 is dangerous Ken when it comes from you as someone just might believe it. You should know better......

This isn't about me being smart as I'm not but I can add and divide and my only skin in this game is to help those that don't understand the simplest form of job costing. There is far more it as you know but for most guys here just this one little step might save them from paying someone to work....

 

[Mark Saiger]

Hot water extracting 2 schools at .36 cents per sq foot. The one school on Thursday is about 8000 square feet (run 2 vans for this one). The one the first week in August is about 105,000 sq feet (that is not a typo). No encaping allowed on these 2 projects. 2nd project will be 4 vans with us running we figure for 5 days. We might also have some duct cleaning in both schools too. We are currently swamped, but these 2 schools are also last minute rush jobs.

Mark Saiger

 

[SMRBAP]

John/Ken

Skimming through this - maybe you guys are not getting each other. . . .?

Operational cost per hour for your biz - and operational cost of your TM/ hour - 2 totally different things. The latter is only a part of the first.

Looking at one of mine, PC Everest, 2400 hrs - up to that point, not including a tech, just cost of machine, fuel, and service costs, $15.05/hr. Factor in that I sold it for about 20k - now it cost me $6.75/hr - and that is a REAL number, it's the end number - (which is why resale should be a consideration for all TM buyers, as well as the "right time" to sell and move on to a new machine - for me, when it's depreciated fully tax wise). And you really can't get that final number until the TM is dead or sold, only an up to the day cost.

Operational cost per hour for my firm, TOTALLY different number, and the above is one part of that, and by far the smallest part. I'd be retired by now if my operational costs were 6.75/hr, or even that 15.05/hr. This is the one that you have to factor everything in, TM operational cost, labor, labor tax's, use tax/property tax on equipment (where applicable), all vehicle related costs, advertising, location overhead, insurances, legal costs, etc etc etc. I have different operational costs per hour established for every "division" of my firm, in house area rugs cleaning, resi cleaning, commercial cleaning, and each restoration sector, water, fire, mold.

So are you two on the same page - seems maybe not?

Ken and the others stating the low #'s as operational cost - is it just the TM operational hrly cost, or your firms overall /hr operational cost?

 

[floorguy]

oh ho....

nice catch Anthony... 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[ruff]

Whatever you want to say is ok john. A job like that is going to be cleaned most likely at 2k+ sq ft an hour so the math is quite diff than you impy.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I agree with John, Ken.
Bull's turd!

 

[Ron Werner]

regardless of all the number talk, all I can see is a bunch of kids getting sick because the carpets weren't cleaned properly. 2K sf/hr!!! Now THAT is BS!

Encapping commercial hallways is one thing, IF this cleaner is encapping. But these are kids, sneezing, spitting, who knows what else is in/on that carpet. Its not the same as a commercial bldg.

Wont be long and the school will consider ripping OUT the carpet because of all the allergy "complaints".
They only have themselves to blame. I know school budgets are tight but some things shouldn't be skimped on and sometimes the PROFESSIONAL needs to tell the CLIENT when its clean, not the other way around. This guy is going to hack out that school, either it will LOOK clean and still have all kinds of crap left in it, or it will look like hell, and have all kinds of crap still in it.

 

[John Olson]

John/Ken

Skimming through this - maybe you guys are not getting each other. . . .?

Operational cost per hour for your biz - and operational cost of your TM/ hour - 2 totally different things. The latter is only a part of the first.

Looking at one of mine, PC Everest, 2400 hrs - up to that point, not including a tech, just cost of machine, fuel, and service costs, $15.05/hr. Factor in that I sold it for about 20k - now it cost me $6.75/hr - and that is a REAL number, it's the end number - (which is why resale should be a consideration for all TM buyers, as well as the "right time" to sell and move on to a new machine - for me, when it's depreciated fully tax wise). And you really can't get that final number until the TM is dead or sold, only an up to the day cost.

Operational cost per hour for my firm, TOTALLY different number, and the above is one part of that, and by far the smallest part. I'd be retired by now if my operational costs were 6.75/hr, or even that 15.05/hr. This is the one that you have to factor everything in, TM operational cost, labor, labor tax's, use tax/property tax on equipment (where applicable), all vehicle related costs, advertising, location overhead, insurances, legal costs, etc etc etc. I have different operational costs per hour established for every "division" of my firm, in house area rugs cleaning, resi cleaning, commercial cleaning, and each restoration sector, water, fire, mold.

So are you two on the same page - seems maybe not?

Ken and the others stating the low #'s as operational cost - is it just the TM operational hrly cost, or your firms overall /hr operational cost?

Oh I understood what Ken and Crowley and what your saying Anthony. In terms of OWNERSHIP and REPLACEMENT that is a very real number and is very important but in THIS case were we are talking about bidding and MAKING a profit that number is not the right number. It is part of the equation but if it is used to make a decision on how much to bid without all the other numbers it will flat out bankrupt you. That is and has been my point.

Unless there is some magic super speed cleaner out there or they are using $3 hour illegals there is no way to make a profit on that job and especially $300 as Ken said. The numbers do not work (for HWE). And that is the truth period.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We would do it for .12 sq/ft, knock it out in a few hours.

16,000sq/ft divided by 1500sq/ft per hour with a Cimex is 10.6 hours

We would probably send 4-Cimex's, 2.6 hours each, we would use the Orbot and OP the area you're saying needs HWE.

It's a tad slower but 1500 is conservative for open areas. We would bring our water in 5-gallon jugs so the can just pour it in the machine and add encap solution. Saves time looking for or getting water, especially for a project of this size.

Even if we had to HWE those area, 3-4 hours total for 4-men.

1600 x .12= $1920.00 for 12-16 man hours, I'd do it all day long!

$160.00 man hour at 12-hours
$120.00 man hour at 16-hours
8)

 

[John Olson]

:roll: Apples and oranges he didn't say it was a encrap only job and yes doing a sub par job is always less money. Remember his kid goes to school there!

What would you charge for HWE and how long from the time your guys leave the shop until the return do you think it will take? Lets say the job is only 20 minutes away..What would your numbers be Richard. Keep it apples to apples and leave the oranges out of it

 

[Ken Snow]

There is no absolute truth john and as usual u are full of shit- how u like them apples :-)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Jeremy N]

My son has a strong immune system...oh well. lol


I coach the football team there and it's a great school, great people. They just don't know jack about carpet cleaning. I educated them before the price was given so I didn't want to argue after. They readily admitted that the carpet probably would not be done as well with the other guy. Oh well...