Dear Steve Toburen

Brian R

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I've known Steve for a couple of years, talk to him in person and on this board. Took the SFS class...amazing.
He could be a serial murderer for all I know but the guy has never steered me wrong or anyone else I have heard of or seen.
What else can you go on?

The only thing Steve has ever asked of that I know of is feedback on some of his articles.
No harm in that.
The guy is an ocean of information and any cleaner that sticks his nose up at him (out of fear and jealousy IMO) is strictly a dumbass.

I always seem to end my brilliant posts with some sort of thought that lowers my professionalism. Go figure.
 

Steve Toburen

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Ryan said:
Exactly how long did your business last after you sold out? Rumor has it you saw the inevitable and sold it to some poor sap who was out of business in 6 months.

No need for some long post full of excuses explaining why he went out of business either...........

Wow, I leave you guys alone for a couple hours for some light TV watching with Sioux (HawthoRNe for her and Memphis Beat for me afterwards) and when I come to turn the computer off all heck has broken loose. (And I know my name in a headline on MB is never going to be good!) :)

Thanks for the support, folks, but I'm good with this one since none of it is hardly a secret. I've taught over 80 SFS seminars in the last 14 years and almost invariably the question will come up in class "What happened to your business?" so I tell 'em which means I've probably told over 2,000 carpet cleaners the same story. (Since it is the truth I don't have to remember which version I tell to who.)

Now Ryan, I'll keep it as short as possible but ya gotta admit you asked and it IS the truth. (BTW, please keep any PM private.)

Sioux and I moved to Durango,Colorado in 1976 with 3,000 bucks, a Castex Model 700 portable extractor and a Ford Pinto station wagon. After a lot of down-in-the-trenches fighting, clawing and kicking and just being too-darn-stupid/stubborn to hang it up by 1991 I had grown the company to right at $750,000.00 per year in revenue. (Which incidentally is 1.3 million in today's dollars) The company was very profitable and I took 10 to 12 weeks of vacation a year. (Ryan, if I can find my 1991 tax returns I'll send you a copy- seriously.)

But one cold morning in January of 1991 I woke up and said to Sioux, "I don't want to do this any more." I loved the cleaning industry (still do) but all those years of running an emergency services restoration company and dealing with 16 employees in a small market base of 30,000 people just took their toll. I wasn't having fun any more.

So I put the business up for sale and by November of 1991 we actually had three different people bidding on the business and yes, all three parties were well represented with CPA's, attorneys, etc. (Which I believe shows my company wasn't a business that would "inevitably" go broke.)

But, just like the movie where the guy says "show me the money" I went with the one (I'll call him "Greg") with the cash and yup- Greg paid 97% of the price in cash up front. I carried 3% of the price in a promissory note and yes, that got paid off too. Yeah, I cashed out for a very nice amount of money. (No, I'm not Warren Buffet rich however I am "financially comfortable". I work with Jon-Don and SFS on a very part time basis because I "want to", not because I "have to".)

I've told this sad part of the story to quite a few people, including several SFS classes where we had time. We closed the business sale on a Friday and I remember my first inkling that things might not go well with the new buyer was when I offered to come in over the weekend and give Greg some "orientation sessions" so we could hit the ground running on Monday. His reply? "Naah. It's been a long week for me and I want to take it easy over the weekend." Hmmmm ... (Remember, this is the guy who has put his life savings into this purchase plus a large inheritance AND is on the hook with a very large SBA loan and he wants to "relax"?)

I then took Greg out the Monday after the sale (BTW, he was an hour late coming in to the office on his "first day") to teach him how to pre-inspect carpet cleaning jobs. We were on our way to a big job climbing west out of town on Hwy 160 and he looked at me and said, "Steve, I can't tell you how grateful I am for selling me this business." I still remember my reply, "Well, I hope you still feel this way six months from now."

So to keep the long post to minimum let's fast forward over the next six months where Greg fired me from my 15 hour per week consulting contract after one month (fine with me!) and had alienated all four of my office staff (who all walked off the job after collecting their "six month stay on after the sale bonus" from me) plus had ticked off the wife of the largest realtor in town plus had let the technicians take over the running of the company because he "didn't have the time for it" plus had lost the confidence of every major adjuster that I had worked with for years AND terminated the Free Lifetime Spotter bottle program we had been running for years and instead started charging $4.95 per bottle for it plus ... well, you get the picture. (By now I literally had quit going to the grocery store because my customers would upbraid me in the aisle for having "sold them out" to this guy.)

So sure enough in the spring of 1992 Greg calls me almost exactly six months after we signed the papers and wanted to meet me for lunch. He looked me in the eye and said, "Steve, I can't do this. I am in over my head. I'll give you the business back if you will just assume the SBA loan." (Which would have meant I would have shown a whopping profit because the SBA loan was for less than 50% of the purchase price.) My reply? "No." I had cut the emotional strings six months earlier and I was done with that part of my life.

So Greg stumbled along for the next couple of years running the company slowly downhill, going through a succession of managers because he just didn't have it in him to do it himself. (Which of course added another unnecessary layer of overhead to an already struggling business.) Then I heard he sold it for less than 1/2 of what he paid me for it and it went through several more owners, slowly spiraling down by living off the good will we had built up over the 16 years I had it. Then I believe (not sure) that around 6 or 7 years ago it went completely out of business.

And that is it. Sure, I felt bad about how things played out. My customers felt betrayed (even though as I took their verbal abuse on the streets of Durango I felt like yelling at them, "Where is it written that my life is to clean your carpets forever?"), my employees suffered under some really bad management stuff (but I gave generous bonuses to all the managers who stayed on for six months plus several technicians went into business against Greg using my Value Added Service concepts and did very well) and my family suffered from my inevitable angst due to all of the above issues.

So Ryan, no long post "full of excuses" why Greg didn't make it. But for the general edification of other board members I'll give you my take on why he failed:

1. A small service business (even a good one which mine was) is a very fragile thing. All you really are selling is "experiences produced by people". Which means you better be sensitive to people. Greg proved to be one of the most emotionally clueless and obtuse people I have ever met and suffered accordingly.

2. You have to have the fire in the belly. Especially in a restoration business (40% of our gross was in fire and water damage) even the owner needs to pitch in when things get "tight and tense". Greg either couldn't or wouldn't.

3. Even the owner needs to "play by the rules". Our company was built on systems and procedures. IF Greg had just followed them (or even better just moved to Arizona after buying the company and let my managers follow our systems and procedures) the company would have prospered. But he didn't.

So would I sell the business again? Absolutely. It was the right thing to do at that point in my life. (I was 38 years old.) Would I have sold it to Greg knowing what I learned after the sale? Probably not. But he seemed so nice, very business like and professional plus he had a LOT of money which I relieved him of! :) Even so, with the wisdom of hindsight I think I would have gone with either one of the other two bidders, who while not having the cash reserves Greg had they both did have a solid record of running small service businesses. So it goes ...

Nostalgically and truthfully submitted,

Steve Toburen
SFS.JonDon.com

PS Now if anyone wants to know what I have been up to since I sold my carpet cleaning/restoration company you'll have to click here: http://sfs.jondon.com/about/sfs-history (You guys didn't think I was going to type this much and not stick at least ONE link in, did ya?)
 

Mikey P

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feel like a real schmuck now don't ya Ryan?


I'll bet 20 bucks Terje wont even read that so he can continue to be the Hero of the Broke Dicks.
 

topnotchman

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Well said Steve. Who wouldn't sell their successful business for a good amount of money and basically retire at 38? you bet I would!! You take Steve who started with very little and grew his operation, and actually could sell it for something! Thats where I would want to be.
Its like my uncle, Claude Blackburn, founder of Dri-Eaz products, he started with nothing when he started his carpet cleaning business, and slowly grew it. Then he started Dri-Eaz and he sold a few years ago for I'm not sure how much. Lets say he's living the dream buying and flying airplanes and traveling the world whenever he feels like. Dri-Eaz still has great products, but the company has a different vision and different priorities, thats just how it goes when you sell.


I always want to learn from those that became successful, it was no accident.
 

Askal

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Just like some restaurants I've seen sell. A great Mexican place called Old Mexico with a great menu and a money maker. new guy buys it, thinks he is smarter, changes the name to Micks and has a new menu and changes the staff. A year later out of biz. So, why did he buy a working biz only to screw it up? More money than brains.
Al
 
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Steve Toburen said:
Even so, with the wisdom of hindsight I think I would have gone with either one of the other two bidders, who while not having the cash reserves Greg had they both did have a solid record of running small service businesses. So it goes ...

Nostalgically and truthfully submitted,

Steve Toburen
SFS.JonDon.com


The beauty of hindsight. "Life can only be understood in reverse, but must be lived forward."
 

Shorty

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Jeez, some days you just can't win.

I posted a top reply to Ryan, but mustn't have saved it properly, and lost it when I turned off the pc :oops: and went out for a few hours.

Bugger. :oops:
 

XTREME1

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Why did he have to have the stupid, lazy new owner be named Greg
 

Steve Toburen

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Greg Crowley said:
Why did he have to have the stupid, lazy new owner be named Greg
Ouch. I can't win, Greg. You are far from stupid or lazy, as we both well know. Thanks for your understanding.

Island Boy
SFS.JonDon.com

PS I'd actually like to thank everyone who posted for their support, even Ryan. My guess is Ryan honestly wanted to know and that is OK. The curse of the internet is it is easy to post something that comes across wrong whereas in person it would be fine. Ryan's concern was valid simply because when you dig below the surface some instructors are teaching simply because they couldn't hack it out here in the real world running a successful small service business. I could and did "hack it". (I don't know of anyone out there today who is running a 1.3 million dollar a year business in a market base of 30,000 people!) I just didn't want to anymore ... so I didn't. :)
 

Desk Jockey

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I've heard you tell that story twice at SFS.....now three times of you include this!

At my next SFS you don't mind if I talk to Yeadon during your speech do ya? :wink:




:mrgreen:
 

Shorty

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Steve Toburen said:
[quote="Greg Crowley":7wa6mm3p]Why did he have to have the stupid, lazy new owner be named Greg
Ouch. I can't win, Greg. You are far from stupid or lazy, as we both well know. Thanks for your understanding.

Island Boy
SFS.JonDon.com

PS I'd actually like to thank everyone who posted for their support, even Ryan. My guess is Ryan honestly wanted to know and that is OK. The curse of the internet is it is easy to post something that comes across wrong whereas in person it would be fine. Ryan's concern was valid simply because when you dig below the surface some instructors are teaching simply because they couldn't hack it out here in the real world running a successful small service business. I could and did "hack it". (I don't know of anyone out there today who is running a 1.3 million dollar a year business in a market base of 30,000 people!) I just didn't want to anymore ... so I didn't. :)[/quote:7wa6mm3p]




So Steve, were you a "Hack" :lol: :lol: :lol: (by your own admission of course) :wink: shiteatinggrin

Ooroo,


SFS Graduate $$$$$$ give or take a few.
 

Steve Toburen

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Shorty Down Under said:
So Steve, were you a "Hack" :lol: :lol: :lol: (by your own admission of course) :wink: shiteatinggrin

Ooroo,

SFS Graduate $$$$$$ give or take a few.
This is a tough room to work.

Island Boy
SFS.JonDon.com

PS Shorty, are you coming over for Connections? I'd like to catch up with you.

In fact, I'm doing a one hour presentation on "How to Sell Your Business and Retire While You Are Young Enough to Enjoy It" on Wednesday afternoon. Here's the info on it: http://sfs.jondon.com/5230/blog/can-a-c ... g-business (If anyone on this board wants to attend you don't have to sign up for the trade show. Just ask for me and I'll get you into my session.)
 

Brian R

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I've always said....and it was said by someone smarter than I

"Never take advice from someone you wouldn't trade places with".

Aside from the living in a 3rd world type area :lol: I would trade places with Steve if not just for the shear knowledge and experience. I haven't met his wife so the jury is still out on that one. :lol: j/k Steve. If you picked her, then I'm sure she's perfect.

I need to learn to reply better to posts. I will take a lesson from the master.

God, now I feel all dirty. :oops:

Maybe I'll see you at connections...look for the Network Carpet Cleaning booth. :wink:
 

Ryan

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Thanks for the reply Steve.


Mikey P said:
As for the York jab.



I was an ugly divorce, what can I say.


except that you bringing that up as a comeback shows serious lack of wit.

It wasn't a jab Mikey, when I first started my business my cousin who is a very successful business owner and wealthy man gave me some advice. "You have your friends and your business, never mix the two". I don't know your history Mikey but I'm willing to bet York wasn't the first time something like this has happened to you.

Steve's response made sense (yes I actually read all of it) and he does seem like a stand up guy, however if I become his oldest bestest buddy like most of you guys are acting I lose my objectivity. When you lose that you stop doing what is best for your business and family. And end up buying from Steve or Jon-Don because you like them, they have a fun board personality, or because hes fun to talk to on the phone and give good advice. I will always buy from whomever I can get the best price, quality, and service from, not from my buddy's.

I like a lot of you guys on here (although it may not always show) and consider some friends, but I will never get too close to those people who are trying to sell me things. It never ends well.
 

Chris A

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Ryan said:
I like a lot of you guys on here (although it may not always show) and consider some friends, but I will never get too close to those people who are trying to sell me things. It never ends well.

That's not neccessarily true either... but you do want to be careful. I have a few friends from the board who I know I could count on for just about anything... and one's even a "competitor" :wink:
 

XTREME1

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You won't be making any friends trying to attack someones credibility when their product is their credibility. I heard a rumor you were just another part time bait and switch rug sucker Ryan
 

Ken Snow

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I hear that Ryan and agree with your point about being careful not to mix friendship too much with business. I am considered a pretty savvy negotiator as anyone at JonDon who has dealt with me would liekly attest. All things being equal though I would much rather buy from a company that I respect and whose people I like and/or admire and there are many at JonDon who fall into that category- in fact at pretty much everywhere I buy from for anything.

Ken
Ps I hope you will re-read your initial post and can at least understand how it may have came off as insulting to others who may not have know that wasn't your intent.
 

Ryan

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Greg Crowley said:
You won't be making any friends trying to attack someones credibility when their product is their credibility. I heard a rumor you were just another part time bait and switch rug sucker Ryan

70% of my business is contract VCT if that's what you mean by part time. Lots of guys look down on VCT, but for me the margins are about equal to residential carpet and the volume much easier to achieve. I don't "bait and switch" I do however always try to add on protector and upholstery, just by asking nicely (yes I am capable of niceness :lol:)

I did reread it Ken and I understand what you mean. I think its important to point out that it wasn't true. At first the way you guys where replying I assumed the guy did go out of biz in 6 months. No matter how crappy of a business manager Greg was, running a solid business into the ground in 6 months just sounded fishy. 6 years makes much more sense.
 

XTREME1

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I don't know who looks down on VCT. You do realize a percentage like 70% has absolutely no meaning unless their is a total number attached?

What would it matter to you in anyway shape or form what Steve did with his business? If you wanted to know you could have emailed him. Back to regular scheduled program
 

Steve Toburen

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Greg Crowley said:
If you wanted to know you could have emailed him.
Actually, Greg, several have. And I'm fine with this. Happy to share.

The main question has been "How did the 1.3 million grossed in a 30,000 population market base break down"? And also someone asked if that number included janitorial. So here goes ...

We did about 40% of our gross in restoration, 30% in high end residential and 30% in commercial, most of it in regular contract cleaning where we had the keys to the business. (Which is in my opinion essential. If you don't have independent access to the building then they will jerk you around plus you become an irritant to the management- but I digress.)

Interestingly, we made almost 70% of our total net profit off of the 40% of restoration we did and most of the rest we made off of the contract commercial. Even though we were by far the most expensive residential carpet cleaner in all of SW Colorado when I put Chuck Violand's 5 "M's" job costing formula on all our work I found we weren't doing much more than breaking even on residential. (However, there were other factors that made me keep it as part of our product mix.)

I'm off for our Wednesday date night here in drizzly Santiago. I'm thinking trying out a new fusion restaurant. Dining out here in the Dominican Republic is always a challenge but hope springs eternal.

Steve
SFS.JonDon.com

PS BTW, the first couple of years when we were in Durango we did do janitorial just to pay the rent. But by 1980 we had sold that part of the company off. (Heck, my dear wife Sioux even cleaned houses several days a week for 20 bucks a pop. You do what you have to do!)

Oh yeah, the obligatory link- this is my Commercial Cleaning Analysis form that I used to "interview" my commercial Decision Maker on my first visit.

http://sfs.jondon.com/1972/resources/pa ... t-analysis

It helped me structure the sales call plus get all the data I needed to write the proposal and most importantly, forced the manager to make an investment of his time which gave me a chance to build a relationship with them. When I sold the company we were cleaning over 50 restaurants a month (Durango is a big tourist town) and had over 100 regular commercial contract accounts.
 

Ryan

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Doc Holliday said:
Ryan I don't look down on you for the VCT cleaning, I look down on you for you! :p





:lol:

That's not what she said...... :lol:


Greg I have nothing to prove to you. I work my business full time and have since I graduated high school. If I ever sell out I'll be happy to post my numbers, until then NYB.
 

XTREME1

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I don't give a rats ass about your numbers, I was showing you that 70% don't mean shit
 

Art Kelley

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You did fine, Ryan, asking your question. I'm not sure why Toburen is some sort of Sacred Cow here. Your question was never answered. If his Million Dollar business was so great why did it flop for the new owner? My personal opinion was he overmilked his base and the well ran dry. Greed is not always good.
 

Mikey P

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Your question was never answered. If his Million Dollar business was so great why did it flop for the new owner? My personal opinion was he overmilked his base and the well ran dry. Greed is not always good.


JHC Art

Are you really going to blast him like that when you obviously didn't read his response?
 

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