Did the 360i vs rotary and wand showdown happen?

[Bee Busy]

175 with a brush attachment... good prespray...wand will always work better. What about the edges? Unless you have back problems or aren't strong, then I guess this 360i is the next best thing.

I have 2 property management accts with nasty house, duplexes, condos & apts so I see it all.

Sometimes simple things can save time, energy and money. Let me guess? The 360i costs over $2000? I remember Rotovac blowing up my phone over 5 years ago with that other tool, telling me how great it was. Now this...sounds like Pepsi 1 or Zero Cal Coke or something "NEW AND IMPROVED!!!"

 

[Mike Draper]

I'm not denying you have a lot of experience with ratholes. Yes, I have done side by side with the cimex and high flow wands vs. The 360I. Since you don't own a 360I, have you done sde by side testing? How many shitholes have u cleaned with the 360I?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Since you don't own a 360I, have you done sde by side testing? How many shitholes have u cleaned with the 360I?

I already said none, brother.

but some reality is starting to show thru now.
and it's more in line with reality of what one (that's been around the block) would expect

you saw this thread, I'm sure

but after cleaning inspection [the 360i]was clearly outcleaned by the other two machines. From
The RX-20 was the clear winner in terms of cleaning.

I pretty much saw what Greg did.

..L.T.A.

 

[Bee Busy]

I'm not denying you have a lot of experience with ratholes. Yes, I have done side by side with the cimex and high flow wands vs. The 360I. Since you don't own a 360I, have you done sde by side testing? How many shitholes have u cleaned with the 360I?

why would I buy that thing if what I'm doing works? U can't clean the edges effectively...so what's the point in even bothering? With a 175 it's all about aggitation, then rinsing...the 360i not aggitating like a 175 with a brush.
If u used a Cimex next to it got better results...I would love to see some pictures of that

 

[Mike Draper]

You got it. Ill pull out the cimex on a shithole place I'm cleaning Thursday. It will be another side by side comparison against the 360I that I have done about 3 times. This is 3x more than larry ever has. I already know the clear winner. The 360I! Not only will the 360I outclean the other method, it will do it faster. Ill put $250 up against anyone who wants to do a side by side with cimex and high flow vs. 360I on a residential carpet. If I lose, ill give larry $250.00. Will you do th same larry? Howmany times have you used the 360I again? I forgot.

 

[Jim Martin]

Larry.....you know me...I don't care who makes what ....who hates who..or anything else...I try to be unbiased as possible....I have no agenda here....if it is good I am going to let you know just as fast as if it was a piece of shit........I have rotary cleaned since almost day one with a RX....over that time I have done everything I can to make it better and better....all that lifting and tossing it in and out of the truck..carrying it up stairs... finally took its tole on me that is not going to be reversed........when it finally snapped...I went with a 360i....I think you know how anal us 20%ers are with our cleanings......and I can honestly say that the 360i matches that RX...in some ways it is much better...the weight...the ease of getting it into areas that the RX would not go....it runs across the floor smoother...the recover is much much better...every single day I have pounded the hell out of this thing to see what it would take....and it has held its own.....

Is it perfect...no..and I would doubt the Rotovac is going to take the time and change the things that we find could be better....but......I am willing to bet that in time...the hoss will work out a few bugs and some little details and it will probably out do the 360i and the RX-20.......

 

[Brian R]

Oh just buy an Orbot and some pads and be done with it....no other machine needed to operate it.

And you are all forgetting about that part...which I'm sure makes a little bit of difference in performance.

 

[Dolly Llama]

If I lose, ill give larry $250.00. Will you do th same larry?

If "I'M" not running it, hell no!
90% of the cleaners don't know how to clean.

i don't know what chems you use or why you get better results



Thanks Jim.
I know you know what's up.
I know Mike does too
and I'm not at all saying it's not a good cleaning tool

But when Drapes says , and i quote, that the RX20 doesn't clean "remotely" as well, I wonder what brand of kool-aid he's using ..cause sump'um is WAY out of kilter up there Logan UT

and hell, I don't care what a guy thinks is best.
if it works best for you, them or him, rock on
The "best" tool is the one that works best for "you"

But it seems it's not the "best" to everyone


..l.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Oh just buy an Orbot and some pads and be done with it....no other machine needed to operate it.

And you are all forgetting about that part...which I'm sure makes a little bit of difference in performance.

oh puh-leeze....

spray'n wipe isn't even in the same ballpark ....:roll:

..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Martin]

If I lose, ill give larry $250.00. Will you do th same larry?

If "I'M" not running it, hell no!
90% of the cleaners don't know how to clean.

i don't know what chems you use or why you get better results



Thanks Jim.
I know you know what's up.
I know Mike does too
and I'm not at all saying it's not a good cleaning tool

But when Drapes says , and i quote, that the RX20 doesn't clean "remotely" as well, I wonder what brand of kool-aid he's using ..cause sump'um is WAY out of kilter up there Logan UT

and hell, I don't care what a guy thinks is best.
if it works best for you, them or him, rock on
The "best" tool is the one that works best for "you"

But it seems it's not the "best" to everyone


..l.T.A.

here is the deal with the RX....you have to make it clean...right out of the box the thing is a boat anchor...jets need replaced...you need extensions....skids need glides....god forbid you got one with the half assed half slots skids and cone jets......then you have to learn how to work it....all due respect to everyone...I really respect your testing..but in all honesty.....you don't just pic up a random rotary extractor and run it across a piece of carpet and say..."that one is better"....it takes time and a shit load of different carpets and fibers to really see what it is going to do.....and once you see how it handles.( like the RX )...then you need to tweak the thing to make it better.....

there is no changing the 360i..what you get is what you get....all you can do is change a few things and make it more user friendly....but....it will match a well groomed RX.....

 

[Able 1]

why would I buy that thing if what I'm doing works? U can't clean the edges effectively...so what's the point in even bothering? With a 175 it's all about aggitation, then rinsing...the 360i not aggitating like a 175 with a brush.
If u used a Cimex next to it got better results...I would love to see some pictures of that

I am curious to why you guys think that the 360i will out clean a 175 and a high flow wand?? The original 360 was a pos.. I just want the reasons why, not "ahh it just cleans way better"...

Mike what does your basic cleaning package include for 3 rooms at $89.00?

 

[Jim Martin]

I don't own and never have used a 175....so I cant say if it will out clean or not...but...my thought is why would I want to run a rotary...then have to put it down and pick it a wand so I can go threw the same room again...when I can use a rotary extractor and get great results all in one shot........

 

[Mike Draper]

A wand cleaning.

 

[Able 1]

A wand cleaning.

Out of 10 how many need that "special machine "?

 

[GeneMiller]

recently we used the 175 and wand ,16 flow, against the original rotovac on a soot covered carpet. the rotovac cleaned it with less work and way less time. it shut up my tech. haven't tried the 360i yet but since a new hoss is in town don't need to. i've had the rotovac since 2002 . I have only had to replace 2 bearing , felts and brushes. it's light and works day in and day out.

gene

 

[Brian R]

Remember...it's the person cleaning it...NOT the machine.

All the tools listed are more than enough to get the worst cleaned.

Why does it have to be a "my dick's bigger than your dick" discussion?

 

[Mike Draper]

[quote="Mike Draper":1m64vy1q]A wand cleaning.

Out of 10 how many need that "special machine "?[/quote:1m64vy1q]

8 out of 10 choose our premium cleaning. We don't always use the 360i. We use the best tool and scrubbing combo for the fiber and carpet they have. This includes pre-vacuuming, a CRB scrub, a wand cleaning with the zipper jr or ti wand, and speed dry, or in place of scrubbing we use the 360i and then speed dry. The 360i can be to aggressive for certain poly's or shag's or cable fibers.

 

[Johnny]

I don't own and never have used a 175....so I cant say if it will out clean or not...but...my thought is why would I want to run a rotary...then have to put it down and pick it a wand so I can go threw the same room again...when I can use a rotary extractor and get great results all in one shot........

Cuz a helper prescrubbing and me wanding is MUCH faster than RXing. Also, you don't need to prescrub every square inch of carpet.
Even working alone I am faster with a machine prescrub and wand rinse than RXing.

I think one of the reasons machine prescrub and wand rinse works so well is cuz the prespray gets more dwell time after it is scrubbed in before it's rinsed.

__________________________________

Git-R-Done!

 

[Mikey P]

If the test carpet would have been soil and sand loaded instead of just dragged around the parking lot, the test results would have been more interesting for sure.



at least we didn't Harv it.


Still no doubt in my mind WHATSOEVER that a RE tool will out clean a 175 and wand on impacted carpet.

 

[Bee Busy]

Remember...it's the person cleaning it...NOT the machine.

All the tools listed are more than enough to get the worst cleaned.

Why does it have to be a "my dick's bigger than your dick" discussion?

good point...i could scrub the chit and rinse a carpet over someone "cruising" with their "new and improved carpet cleaning tool"....whoever is behind the tool is very important

 

[Dolly Llama]

Why does it have to be a "my dick's bigger than your dick" discussion?

you wouldn't understand Cork
you're a marketing guy that does a little spray'n wipe on the side ..a rag and Resolve kind of guy

we've "cleaners" and take great pride in our work ....


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

Larry Larry Larry

Yes, I love the marketing side of this business...and I've never claimed to be a great cleaner.

But you guys have never seen a rathole until you've done a crackwhores apt in Oakland CA that was used from everything from drug deals to "entertaining" guests. I'm not kiddin...we found a machine gun in the closet. :shock:
The carpet was so filthy we used a garden "ho" to scrape some of the traffic areas.

Just sayin....I've clean my share of carpets in the last 30 years and I've used tons of different tools and equipment.

At the end of the day.....I can clean a carpet with a qtip and an eye dropper if you give me enough time....and so could any other decent or better cleaner.

I know we want tools to make it easier on us...some even want the tools to do the work FOR us.
I'm convinced that the chems are just as or more important in making life easier (as long as they're safe). With that...even a porty and a wand can make a world of difference.
The RX 20s etc are sometimes more money and more trouble than they are worth.

You do know that carpet is only about a half an inch deep right? Sometimes less.

 

[Jim Martin]

Brian.......normally I target the higher end home......but I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face...so regardless I will do middle class to lower end cleanings..you got to go where the money is if they are willing to pay......the other day I got stuck in the worst area of town..gangs..drugs..guns..and just me and my ass stuck out there.....walked into a house....some of the oldest carpet I have ever seen...worn down..dirty as hell...color completely gone.....owner said it was 15 years since it was cleaned....and trust me it was 10 since it was vacuumed......I used some of the strongest stuff I had on the truck...the water in the site tube on the 360i was coming up a dark carmel color.....I went over this carpet 3 times before I could get the water to clear up....when I was done and pulled my filter...there was enough sand and dirt in there that I could of filled some of the hole in his front yard....

explain to me how you could of removed all of this with your system......not bashing...just wondering.....

 

[Todd Anthony]

I agree with Jim. If your not using a Rotovac then you are leaving a lot of debris in the carpet. This is what the head will look like after most jobs, after a good prevac.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riBd82k5_VE

 

[Loren Egland]

[quote="Bee Busy":dg5n1khk]
why would I buy that thing if what I'm doing works? U can't clean the edges effectively...so what's the point in even bothering? With a 175 it's all about aggitation, then rinsing...the 360i not aggitating like a 175 with a brush.
If u used a Cimex next to it got better results...I would love to see some pictures of that

I am curious to why you guys think that the 360i will out clean a 175 and a high flow wand?? The original 360 was a pos.. I just want the reasons why, not "ahh it just cleans way better"...

Mike what does your basic cleaning package include for 3 rooms at $89.00?[/quote:dg5n1khk]

I may not know what I am talking about, because I use the original two head Rotovac, but from my perspective, the Rotovac builds up heat on the fibers that will make them cleaner than just using a machine to agitate and then flush with a wand.

There is also the fact the Rotovac is cleaning and extracting all the time it is being operated. Counter rotating provides plenty of agitation along with the cleaning since it is not just stiring around the soil but extracting it at all times, so more time is spent flushing or actually cleaning.

The sand and debris is more readily extracted because the jet force and vacuum comes from all sides repeatedly, each head with three jets and slots (6 total) counter rotates at 250 rpm each thus producing 1500 multidirectional passes per minute.

Add it all up, and on some carpet, it will simply outclean agitation and wand flush alone.

Yes, rje and wanding of edges does take two tools, just as prescrub and wanding uses two tools. Not every job though will require rje. Sometimes a wand alone will be fine.

Bottom line is heat, flushing, agitation and fiber separation/extraction while cleaning seems to have an edge.

 

[Brian R]

Brian.......normally I target the higher end home......but I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face...so regardless I will do middle class to lower end cleanings..you got to go where the money is if they are willing to pay......the other day I got stuck in the worst area of town..gangs..drugs..guns..and just me and my ass stuck out there.....walked into a house....some of the oldest carpet I have ever seen...worn down..dirty as hell...color completely gone.....owner said it was 15 years since it was cleaned....and trust me it was 10 since it was vacuumed......I used some of the strongest stuff I had on the truck...the water in the site tube on the 360i was coming up a dark carmel color.....I went over this carpet 3 times before I could get the water to clear up....when I was done and pulled my filter...there was enough sand and dirt in there that I could of filled some of the hole in his front yard....

explain to me how you could of removed all of this with your system......not bashing...just wondering.....

Jim, you've been accused of being one of the smartest guys on this board when it comes to cleaning...and I won't argue that at all.

Did you prevac? Most of the dry soil can be removed with a good prevac...just ask Ron werner. lol
I'm not sure that I could pull up as much as you did but I would imagine that all that sand and debris would have taken an hour to dry vac completely.
Once I do that, I clean the carpet fibers until they look clean. Are they clean? My best guess without bringing out the dirt-o-meter would be yes. Is the pad and anything else under the carpet still dirty? Hell yes! But no matter how much crud you are pulling up from underneath, it won't get clean unless you pull the pad. I don't think anyone will argue that.
So I'm sure you will pull up more crap as long as there is still crap under the carpet...but I believe the carpet will be just as clean with my system...just without the wicking. !gotcha!

You guys do remember that I owned TMs too right? I've cleaned the ratnastiest with them and I was glad to have them. At that level the TMs just make life easier. But sometimes the worst of the worst would still get a post padding to dry the tips and get that last little bit of soil. That too would help prevent wicking.

 

[Brian R]

For the record...these "shoot outs" rarely are done with a carpet pad under the carpet. Usually with just the carpet on the ground. Am I wrong?

Just sayin.

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":30907tf2]Brian.......normally I target the higher end home......but I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face...so regardless I will do middle class to lower end cleanings..you got to go where the money is if they are willing to pay......the other day I got stuck in the worst area of town..gangs..drugs..guns..and just me and my ass stuck out there.....walked into a house....some of the oldest carpet I have ever seen...worn down..dirty as hell...color completely gone.....owner said it was 15 years since it was cleaned....and trust me it was 10 since it was vacuumed......I used some of the strongest stuff I had on the truck...the water in the site tube on the 360i was coming up a dark carmel color.....I went over this carpet 3 times before I could get the water to clear up....when I was done and pulled my filter...there was enough sand and dirt in there that I could of filled some of the hole in his front yard....

explain to me how you could of removed all of this with your system......not bashing...just wondering.....

Jim, you've been accused of being one of the smartest guys on this board when it comes to cleaning...and I won't argue that at all.

Did you prevac? Most of the dry soil can be removed with a good prevac...just ask Ron werner. lol
I'm not sure that I could pull up as much as you did but I would imagine that all that sand and debris would have taken an hour to dry vac completely.
Once I do that, I clean the carpet fibers until they look clean. Are they clean? My best guess without bringing out the dirt-o-meter would be yes. Is the pad and anything else under the carpet still dirty? Hell yes! But no matter how much crud you are pulling up from underneath, it won't get clean unless you pull the pad. I don't think anyone will argue that.
So I'm sure you will pull up more crap as long as there is still crap under the carpet...but I believe the carpet will be just as clean with my system...just without the wicking. !gotcha!

You guys do remember that I owned TMs too right? I've cleaned the ratnastiest with them and I was glad to have them. At that level the TMs just make life easier. But sometimes the worst of the worst would still get a post padding to dry the tips and get that last little bit of soil. That too would help prevent wicking.[/quote:30907tf2]

I always pre vac....I always pre vacuum everything...
so your telling me that your not sure that you could of pulled out as much as I did.....and yes....the pad underneath is probably still holding more then what even I got out.......but....I am not cleaning the pad..and I have yet to see one of the carpets that I have cleaned with the backing soak and wet...am I pulling some threw..probably....but not to the extent of what you think...I am not sitting my machine in one place and just allowing it to extract....it is being moved around ....times have change...most of us do not over wet or soak the carpets we clean.....it is very rare to have a wicking problem.....
the fiber on this carpet was very crushed down...vacuuming it helped bring it back up but not to the point of releasing all the dirt.....HWE and a rotary clean was the only answer....the soil in the pictures did not come from the padding..it was in bedded into the carpet and the fibers.....

this was from my filter after the second time I went over it....the first filter was so loaded that it tore when I tried to replace it...I am not saying that what you are doing is wrong.....but I really don't think that even with all the vacuuming you would of removed a 1/4 of what a good rotary cleaning would...

 

[Nate The Great]

Jim, BrianR. would argue that a Orbot is a rotary.... :roll:

 

[XTREME1]

Most of the dry soil can be removed with a good prevac

not if there was grease, oil, sugar, or any other thing that would have the soil adhere to the fiber and that is why we prespray, agitate and steam clean. It breaks down the oils, sugar etc etc anything foreign on the fiber to release what can not be vacuumed dry