Lee Stockwell
FOJL
I'm not implying any deficiency in your setup. Just a correction of your physics.
Dual Wanding, what have you tried unit wise?
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
People think sometimes that they are measuring airflow by actually measuring something else, like lift or Hg.
This would be like calculating a water pump's flow with a pressure gauge.
Airflow is measured with an anemometer.
This would be like calculating a water pump's flow with a pressure gauge.
Airflow is measured with an anemometer.
rwcarpet
Supportive Member
Dual wanded often with the Genesis 59, and it cleaned well. As for the new Thermalwave, probably not so. With the TW, I would dual an upholstery tool and a wand at most.
Mike Draper
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,402
I considered building a dual wand unit when I was designing my new TM. But I figured that 90% of my work is single wand work. That and I added up the extra expenses and fuel for the dual wand capability over so many years and it just did not make sense to me. Dual wand would be nice, but I decided to keep it simple.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
My hoses and wands, defy all of this carpet cleaning physics everyday my trucks clean!
One of these days, I will head over to Cobbs, and have my airflow checked with Cobbs anemometer, and see how much I am breaking all of the carpet cleaning laws of physics.
One of these days, I will head over to Cobbs, and have my airflow checked with Cobbs anemometer, and see how much I am breaking all of the carpet cleaning laws of physics.
Mikey P
Administrator
Bob Savage
Member
I know Lee. Remember Summerfest 2002 in St. Louis? You and Justin brought an anemometer which turned out to be quite revealing.
Remember also in a previous post in this thread I posted the secret to this setup working so well; the dual hoses going from the blower to the waste tank and the 4 hose barbs on the recovery tank. That opens up the entire airflow spectrum. My 30 years of cleaning, testing, designing and building ETM's, tinkering and testing some more, led me to discover all of this which I am willing to share with whomever wants to listen. I would go on a bit about my dual wand ETM and how great it works, with it's dual high-pressure pumps and patented circuitry, but I know not one of you is going to believe me there either.
By being able to dual wand properly with a 45 blower any carpet cleaner will now have an awesome CC TM without having to break the bank buying a larger machine. They will save fuel and weight driving around all day long, not to mention the efficiency of cleaning all day long with dual wands and the best APO I've ever seen or used.
That's why I've said I wouldn't trade this 30 year old machine for a brand new one, because I don't know of anyone who has a 45 blower TM that will dual wand properly like the one that I have, and one that has an APO that will go for weeks of daily use without any attention to it's filter system.
I challenge one of you MBer's who have a 45 to modify your TM so you can see - "That's what I'm talkin' bout!"
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Ray Burnfield
Supportive Member
They don't make the Titan 875 anymore.
Ray Burnfield
Supportive Member
Couldn't tell ya
They ran out of motors last year according to my HM rep.
Maybe Jondon still has them in inventory
They ran out of motors last year according to my HM rep.
Maybe Jondon still has them in inventory
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I think Amy has one.
ronbeatty
Member
I use the daul wand set almost every week on the Aerotech. With the dual filters and the crossover header it has all the airflow you need. In the last 40 years I have used portables, slide in's, Butler power take off's and never had a true dual wand setup till now. we like the organizational layout of the box trucks and the easy setup and wind up. If you have the work to support the investment, the true dual wand capability is well worth the money.
Mikey P
Administrator
Untill now?
You never dualed with your Vortexes?
You never dualed with your Vortexes?
Huh, bummer. I thought it was just a standard GM 4 popper?
Ray Burnfield
Supportive Member
It was a 4cyl fuel injected 61HP GM Vortex.
Hydramaster has taken it off their website.
I guess I should too!
Hydramaster has taken it off their website.
I guess I should too!
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Yes, how can we forget. A popular, now defunct, manufacturer was defying physics, pulling DOUBLE the cfm of some of the others. Turned out TWO machines were using the same waste tank.I know Lee. Remember Summerfest 2002 in St. Louis? You and Justin brought an anemometer which turned out to be quite revealing.
That was my oldest son, Jeremy, who now lives near you in Dayton. He's in OSHA there.
Your machine does so well because you've carefully eliminated wasteful restrictions and maximized the cfm of your blower, not by defying physics.
Mikey P
Administrator
Please do a walk around video Bob..
Id love to see your set up
Id love to see your set up
GeneMiller
Member
Time and lack there of. Every minute of every day is spoken for including weekends. I rarely have down time and I don't just mean work. Plus I did have dreams of turning this thing over again but that idea died when the hour meter died. The pump is now leaking and the exhaust diverted quit working. May be sooner than August.
Gene
Mikey P
Administrator
Mind if I ask what has you so busy?
GeneMiller
Member
We pull 50+ hrs every week m-f. Saturday I have practice and an organic farm to tend along with bees and a few other obligations. Sunday is church and then after we volunteer. Usually my day ends around 4. August always has a week that is very slow here. In years past that's the week I make or fix something. I've heard others post how fast it is to install a machine but for me it's a full day maybe day and a half. No real need to lose a full day's work. This one still works. I'll close a Friday and finish it Saturday. There's no gardening here during the summer to hot and humid.
Gene
Gene
hogjowl
Idiot™
You should have just told him yes .
roro
Member
Use 36 and 45 blowers with propane heat. 3" vac hose from small recovery tank to filter box then 2" to wands, often running 150-200' on each.
roro
roro
renegade_cowboy
Member
I know Lee. Remember Summerfest 2002 in St. Louis? You and Justin brought an anemometer which turned out to be quite revealing.
Remember also in a previous post in this thread I posted the secret to this setup working so well; the dual hoses going from the blower to the waste tank and the 4 hose barbs on the recovery tank. That opens up the entire airflow spectrum. My 30 years of cleaning, testing, designing and building ETM's, tinkering and testing some more, led me to discover all of this which I am willing to share with whomever wants to listen. I would go on a bit about my dual wand ETM and how great it works, with it's dual high-pressure pumps and patented circuitry, but I know not one of you is going to believe me there either.
By being able to dual wand properly with a 45 blower any carpet cleaner will now have an awesome CC TM without having to break the bank buying a larger machine. They will save fuel and weight driving around all day long, not to mention the efficiency of cleaning all day long with dual wands and the best APO I've ever seen or used.
That's why I've said I wouldn't trade this 30 year old machine for a brand new one, because I don't know of anyone who has a 45 blower TM that will dual wand properly like the one that I have, and one that has an APO that will go for weeks of daily use without any attention to it's filter system.
I challenge one of you MBer's who have a 45 to modify your TM so you can see - "That's what I'm talkin' bout!"
I believe what you say.. I had a prochem that I had to create new vacuum ports for because it was so constricting.
I am going to be tinkering this summer with a TM build. I was going to use a 31 hp liquid cooled engine with a 47 blower.. Can you PM me pics of how you have the hoses going into the waste tank.. for what I am reading you have more than one going from the blower to the tank?
Where do you hook up the second vacuum hose for your tech to use, does it go straight into the waste tank or do you have a splitter. I made a Y splitter and split it off 50 ft from the main vac line.
Do you think the size of the wand matters? I know everyone preaches the 2 inch wand but my 1 1/2 inch wand would scream more than my 2 inch wand. Right now I have a Maxx 450 and a Maxx 470 .. I tried to dual wand but was only able to dual clean if the other was upholstery.. even then if the uph tool wasn't locked it would kill my suction.
Thanks..
J
JS41035
Guest
Read head. Freckles. Carpet cleaner. J sounding name. Close enough.
We have dueled with the 6008 Vortex many times on churches. However I have found that that is the only time it makes good sense. Tried it a couple times in some of our bigger restaurants but it was a hose tangled mess, we found with only 2 techs that single wamding and switching off is much faster. We often beat out the closing crew in restaurants now. The only time we duel with the 650 hp is when we're cleaning pews or chairs on a large church job or maybe if we're doing carpet and upholstery on a big resi job
Bob Savage
Member
The 45 blower has a 2.5" intake port and discharge port. I put a galvanized T on the blower intake, 2.5" x 2" x 2". From there I ran two separate 2" hoses into the waste tank, to match the area of two 2" vac hoses going out to dual wands. Two 2" hoses have more area than a 2.5" hose.
There are two 2" hoses going from the recovery tank to the TM for the dual wands - no splitter. From there we run into two separate inline vac filters (one for each hose), and then the two separate 2" hoses inside all the way to the wand for cleaning. The Lift and CFM scream. You have to have the two separate hoses from the blower to the tank or it won't give you enough vacuum.
I have two of the vac hoses going into the tank going thru the lid (blower to tank), and the other two at the top side of the tank. The two going to the blower have filter screens on them.
With this setup you don't have to fool with the 2.5" vac hose. The 2.5" hose is just too cumbersome, and really not necessary when running the hoses into the jobsite.
I prefer the 2" wand because it has 4 jets, and does a better job recovering the water with the 2" tube, but when we dual wand, we use one 2" wand (8 flow), and one 1.5" wand (6 flow), for a total of 14 flow.
We can dual wand with 300' of vac hose total (150' per side) with very little vac loss. You can even lay one of the vac hoses open on the floor and still clean with the other. I'll do a video soon showing the Lift at the end of 300' of vac hose, with the other wand off the floor. A few mentioned they can't believe there would be any lift to speak of when dual wanding as I describe.
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Mikey P
Administrator
Im going to have to do a How To video I see...
renegade_cowboy
Member
Very interesting, I never thought of modifying it straight from the blower. Do you think the T that you used restricted it a little bit.. What are you thoughts of a custom welded pipe with 3 barbs coming off the blower going into a waste tank?
Bob Savage
Member
I thought about that, but I don't think that is a restriction because it is right on the blower. I have had it this way for way over 10 years now, and have more vacuum than I really need for cleaning with dual wands.
If a Y were used, I doubt you could notice any vacuum difference at the end of the 2 vacuum hoses, even at great distances, but if you've got a Y, use it.
You would not need 3 barbs, or 3 hoses going to the waste tank, you only need to match the diameter of the two 2" vac hoses used for dual wanding. There would also include the 2.5" opening on the blower intake itself (2.5" x 2" x 2").
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