CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
Who uses emulsifiers and why?
Last edited:
Emulsification Or Acid Rinse.
- Thread starter CanadianRuss
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Mikey P
Administrator
not sure what you mean..
are you wanting to use a rinse through your TM that leaves a polymer behind?
are you wanting to use a rinse through your TM that leaves a polymer behind?
hogjowl
Idiot™
I don't use encapsulating presprays while doing HWE, so I can't say from experience.
If fact, I don't even know why I am responding to this.
Carry on ...
If fact, I don't even know why I am responding to this.
Carry on ...
CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
Sorry I meant some cleaners just use an emulsifier with there rinse. Especially with upholstery. To me I would prefer to use a pre spray with an acid rinse.
CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
I messed that post up real bad. Hey it happens
CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
Can you chime in now.
Jim Pemberton
MB Exclusive.
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- Jim Pemberton
Russ, this has been a subject of discussion on MB since its inception. A kind (an more qualified) soul will like give you links or show you how to do a search.
I will answer to the question when it comes to upholstery cleaning here though:
Upholstery fabrics are thin, relative to carpet, and can often be thoroughly preconditioned to the point where its not necessary to use an emulsifier in the "rinse/extraction" part of the cleaning process. Using soft water as a rinse can be a very good alternative, or you can use an acidic rinse agent if you need to:
1. Neutralize your preconditioner, should it be alkaline in nature.
2. Stabilize dyes, assuming that you have tested the dyes and know that an acid will stabilize them. (Not all dyes are stabilized by acids, and some bleed to acids, though that is a rare occurrence.)
3. Soften fabrics. Pile fabrics, such as velvet and chenille, tend to dry softer when rinsed with an acid rinse, though soft water also has been shown to assist in this case.
4. Restrict browning. "Restrict" is my weasel word of choice that I use instead of "prevent". Some fabrics will still experience browning, even when rinsed with an acid, if you allow them to take too long to dry.
Because of the above benefits, I use an acid rinse when I clean for "friends and family" or the odd antique or museum piece people ask me to see if I can restore. (Come to think of it, my daughters think I'm an odd antique or museum piece).
I hope this helps.
I will answer to the question when it comes to upholstery cleaning here though:
Upholstery fabrics are thin, relative to carpet, and can often be thoroughly preconditioned to the point where its not necessary to use an emulsifier in the "rinse/extraction" part of the cleaning process. Using soft water as a rinse can be a very good alternative, or you can use an acidic rinse agent if you need to:
1. Neutralize your preconditioner, should it be alkaline in nature.
2. Stabilize dyes, assuming that you have tested the dyes and know that an acid will stabilize them. (Not all dyes are stabilized by acids, and some bleed to acids, though that is a rare occurrence.)
3. Soften fabrics. Pile fabrics, such as velvet and chenille, tend to dry softer when rinsed with an acid rinse, though soft water also has been shown to assist in this case.
4. Restrict browning. "Restrict" is my weasel word of choice that I use instead of "prevent". Some fabrics will still experience browning, even when rinsed with an acid, if you allow them to take too long to dry.
Because of the above benefits, I use an acid rinse when I clean for "friends and family" or the odd antique or museum piece people ask me to see if I can restore. (Come to think of it, my daughters think I'm an odd antique or museum piece).
I hope this helps.
CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
Thank you Jim. That does help. I appreciate your detailed comment.
hogjowl
Idiot™
I guess I know what you're asking now.
If I were using an encapsulating prespray, I'd not use a rinse agent. If I felt I just HAD to use something, it would be an encapsulating rinse.
Why negate the effects of your encapsulating agent by rinsing it totally out?
I use an acid rinse in almost all situations, but that's because I use standard cleaning agents and want to rinse well. Sometimes I use a alkaline emulsifier on nasty rentals.
If I were using an encapsulating prespray, I'd not use a rinse agent. If I felt I just HAD to use something, it would be an encapsulating rinse.
Why negate the effects of your encapsulating agent by rinsing it totally out?
I use an acid rinse in almost all situations, but that's because I use standard cleaning agents and want to rinse well. Sometimes I use a alkaline emulsifier on nasty rentals.
Mark Saiger
Mr Happy!
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Where does the encapsulation part come into his answer?
Was the question modified or edited?
Jim p answered as to the way we do it. With the exception that we do it both to upholstery and to carpet, we don't run more juice on top of Presley as a rinse.
Was the question modified or edited?
Jim p answered as to the way we do it. With the exception that we do it both to upholstery and to carpet, we don't run more juice on top of Presley as a rinse.
Desk Jockey
Member
Trying take up the slack on DAP's? Honorable to attempt it but lame result. You come of looking really stoopie.
My apologies if you really ARE Stoopie.
So, it wasn't just me wondering wth he's talking about?
Desk Jockey
Member
I think it depends upon what we are cleaning. Light to moderately soiled All Fiber rinse works really well.
However if it's more than moderately soiled I think it takes more punch to be efficient with production time and effectively deliver the desired results.
However if it's more than moderately soiled I think it takes more punch to be efficient with production time and effectively deliver the desired results.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Fortunately, it's not what you think that counts.
What do Dan and your crew chiefs think?
CanadianRuss
Supportive Member
Sorry guys. I did edit this post. I was to quick on the trigger.
Desk Jockey
Member
What ever I tell them to.
hogjowl
Idiot™
You're always posting.
Desk Jockey
Member
LOL
Just doing my part, I was told the DAP'S were needed.
Just doing my part, I was told the DAP'S were needed.
Mikey P
Administrator
On January 13th Scott Warrington will be on MBWebinars to discuss acid, soft, RO, tap, encap and alkaline rinses.
I need this
hogjowl
Idiot™
Who will be his Christopher Robin?
Mikey P
Administrator
lighten up fenestermaker Jr.
hogjowl
Idiot™
That was harsh!
J Scott W
Member
Wow! I don't want to miss that.
Desk Jockey
Member
Yes Prochem's Upholstery Prespray or Fine Fabric Prespray.
However on soiled or heavily soiled upholstery it brightens up much better with an emulsifier than just an acid rinse alone. Test it yourself.
I love an acid rinse but when its soiled I want it to come as clean as I can get it. If I'm really concerned about resoling or stabilizing dyes then I'd come back with an acid. I rarely need to do that but I have done it.
However on soiled or heavily soiled upholstery it brightens up much better with an emulsifier than just an acid rinse alone. Test it yourself.
I love an acid rinse but when its soiled I want it to come as clean as I can get it. If I'm really concerned about resoling or stabilizing dyes then I'd come back with an acid. I rarely need to do that but I have done it.
Jim Pemberton
MB Exclusive.
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- Name
- Jim Pemberton
These are questions I ask of myself that doesn't have a complete answer:
1. Is it better to precondition and rinse, which allows you to neutralize and remove residue, but potentially leaves the fabric wetter?
2. Or is it better to run a moderately alkaline upholstery detergent through the unit, with little or no preconditioning? It will leave the fabric in an alkaline state, but unless its raw cotton, a bleeder, or a soft texture, does it matter? To take it a step further, what is more likely to bleed...a wet fabric left in an acid condition, or a nearly dry fabric left alkaline?
When it doubt, its best to be both dry and neutralized, but in many cases getting it dry very very fast is probably the most important thing.
Enough of my musing........just DON'T leave it wet AND alkaline!
1. Is it better to precondition and rinse, which allows you to neutralize and remove residue, but potentially leaves the fabric wetter?
2. Or is it better to run a moderately alkaline upholstery detergent through the unit, with little or no preconditioning? It will leave the fabric in an alkaline state, but unless its raw cotton, a bleeder, or a soft texture, does it matter? To take it a step further, what is more likely to bleed...a wet fabric left in an acid condition, or a nearly dry fabric left alkaline?
When it doubt, its best to be both dry and neutralized, but in many cases getting it dry very very fast is probably the most important thing.
Enough of my musing........just DON'T leave it wet AND alkaline!
Desk Jockey
Member
I will say we treat problematic fabrics differently that standard care. In those instances I'm willing to accept lesser results in the name of safety.
