Encap machines?

[Desk Jockey]

Never been threatened by any portable, and we've owned some of the most powerful, 500 psi, 250 psi with dual three's but they still are no TM.

Parents of one of my daughters friends cleaned their home with one. When they left I bent down and it soaked my pant leg. I wiped with my hand and you could see the moisture it left on it. Yep all portable suck!

 

[Mardie]

Never been threatened by any portable, and we've owned some of the most powerful, 500 psi, 250 psi with dual three's but they still are no TM.

Parents of one of my daughters friends cleaned their home with one. When they left I bent down and it soaked my pant leg. I wiped with my hand and you could see the moisture it left on it. Yep all portable suck!

Ya really gota chill out. You porty loving hack .

 

[Desk Jockey]

I did buy a nearly new Flood King from Lockhart last week and he made fun of me for wanting a portable. LOL

I'm a closet portable guy.
"Not that there's anything wrong with it"

 

[Jimmy L]

I've had the 15 inch older GLS for about ten years now.
Use it for those seldom used interior hallways and as a two step process using a bonnet machine and then GROOMING it with the GLS.

In my opinion the CRB machines don't really clean but provide a GROOMED appearance that makes it look like it's been cleaned.
Lightly soiled carpet only. Other wise you have to do a two step process like above.

Don't waste your money buying the overpriced CRYSTAL DRY in those single serving sizes.

But it in gallons from DSC called SPIN VAC.

Barker Hammer in Minneapolis sells it.

I stick with the bridgepoint line of EncapucleanDS and their EncapucleanO2 with the peroxide.

Great discounts at their CAD day make buying from those internet scampooers a crime.

 

[carpetcleaner]

I use a BrushPro 17 every day. I use it before HWE, on tile and grout, and as a stand alone method. I use the BrushPro prespray and CTI's Brush and Bonnet, both products produce great results. Even though I think the machine is overpriced, it has been one of the best equipment purchases that I have ever made.

 

[Mardie]

Randy;

We did some consulting work for a large janitorial account,

cleaning many entire buildings for a LARGE corporate client.

The new commercial carpet was installed in the entire 11 story office building.

It had been warrantied by contract for SEVEN years, by the carpet manufacturer,

IF all the proper maintenance procedures were followed.

One of the stipulations was that NO rotary brushes or rotary bonnets could be used.

The contention was that "rotary action" could untwist the yarn bundle, and lessen the service life.

Not a legal entanglement that I would want to get involved with.

Good reason to utilize cylindrical brush machines,

as Shaw and other manufacturers have indicated.



Shaw release:


http://www.shawcontractgroup.com/Content/LiteraturePDFs/maintenance_pdf/MaintenanceGuidelines-9-08.pdf

Larry

I get a real kick from this Charlie Rollins at Shaw. He criticises bonnet cleaning for leaving residue in the carpet then in the same breath promotes encaping. I would bet anything Charlie has never cleaned a carpet in his life. His post can be seen on page 2 of this thread about 3/4 of the way down the page posted by Larry. I cold not get it to show on this post.

 

[encapman]

Hey Rick, if you get back to this thread, do you still make the head that goes on a rotary to make it work like a cimex? Are you willing to discount them at all now that we know that they are voiding warranties??

No. The Scrub3 is no longer being produced. Thanks for asking though.

 

[Zee]

No. The Scrub3 is no longer being produced. Thanks for asking though.

Rick, any comments on all this warranty talk regarding rotary scrubbers? Since you are one of the biggest cimex advocate.... Do you feel threatened by this at all since your business is mainly to sell releasit and promote cimex use..?

 

[encapman]

Rick, any comments on all this warranty talk regarding rotary scrubbers? Since you are one of the biggest cimex advocate.... Do you feel threatened by this at all since your business is mainly to sell releasit and promote cimex use..?

There's been talk about warranties being voided by rotaries for years. Nothing new there at all. But if we really are concerned about this, we'll all need to get rid of our rotaries, OP machines, RX20, HOSS, Rotovac, and possibly even our Cimex (even though by the strictest definition it's not a rotary). But that may be over reacting; let me explain...

First, let's consider what triggers the mills concerns. One thing... Warranty claims. And what fills up the column for warranty claims with rotaries? My guess is that it's primarily coming from janitors, NOT professional cleaners. Some knucklehead janitor is out there with a rotary and no knowledge of carpet and he does some damage. Blip - that shows up on the mill's spreadsheet. But is that realistic? We can't say there was any level of professionalism that caused the damage. The truth is that a "professional" cleaner can use any of the tools in the list above and NEVER damage anything - we all know that.

Next, lets think about the actual warranty itself. Let's face it, we all know that the mill is probably not going to end up paying on most claims anyway. They build a good product. So they're not likely going to be paying for a failure resulting from a professional cleaner. And if by some slim chance a cleaner actually does cause damage a carpet - then he did something wrong and he should be held accountable. But that's what insurance is for isn't it?

Now to get to your question directly. The Cimex is NOT a rotary machine. It is a planetary scrubber. It doesn't spin around in a circle like a rotary machine does. As the drive deck turns clockwise, the drivers turn counter-clockwise. So as it would be damaging the carpet it's actually un-damaging it at the same time. You can park it on the carpet and let it run and there won't be a problem.

Back when we first started hearing the concerns over rotaries coming out of Dalton we took a proactive position and sent a Cimex, along with Releasit, and FiberPlus pads to Professional Testing Laboratory in Dalton. PTL is the third party testing laboratory that's used by the CRI and the mills in Dalton. PTL ran the Cimex on commercial carpet making 22 passes. Guess what - it passed.

Take a look at the test results from Professional Testing Laboratory.
http://www.cimex-usa.com/brochures/TestResult100742.pdf

So the issue of a Cimex possibly damaging a carpet should not be even a remote concern.

 

[Derek]

if we really are concerned about this, we'll all need to get rid of our rotaries, OP machines, RX20, HOSS, Rotovac,

interesting. so unless you run a zipper or a wand, you're at risk.

 

[Zee]

There's been talk about warranties being voided by rotaries for years. Nothing new there at all. But if we really are concerned about this, we'll all need to get rid of our rotaries, OP machines, RX20, HOSS, Rotovac, and possibly even our Cimex (even though by the strictest definition it's not a rotary). But that may be over reacting; let me explain...
First, let's consider what triggers the mills concerns. One thing... Warranty claims. And what fills up the column for warranty claims with rotaries? My guess is that it's primarily coming from janitors, NOT professional cleaners. Some knucklehead janitor is out there with a rotary and no knowledge of carpet and he does some damage. Blip - that shows up on the mill's spreadsheet. But is that realistic? We can't say there was any level of professionalism that caused the damage. The truth is that a "professional" cleaner can use any of the tools in the list above and NEVER damage anything - we all know that.

Next, lets think about the actual warranty itself. Let's face it, we all know that the mill is probably not going to end up paying on most claims anyway. They build a good product. So they're not likely going to be paying for a failure resulting from a professional cleaner. And if by some slim chance a cleaner actually does cause damage a carpet - then he did something wrong and he should be held accountable. But that's what insurance is for isn't it?

Now to get to your question directly. The Cimex is NOT a rotary machine. It is a planetary scrubber. It doesn't spin around in a circle like a rotary machine does. As the drive deck turns clockwise, the drivers turn counter-clockwise. So as it would be damaging the carpet it's actually un-damaging it at the same time. You can park it on the carpet and let it run and there won't be a problem.

Back when we first started hearing the concerns over rotaries coming out of Dalton we took a proactive position and sent a Cimex, along with Releasit, and FiberPlus pads to Professional Testing Laboratory in Dalton. PTL is the third party testing laboratory that's used by the CRI and the mills in Dalton. PTL ran the Cimex on commercial carpet making 22 passes. Guess what - it passed.

Take a look at the test results from Professional Testing Laboratory.
http://www.cimex-usa.com/brochures/TestResult100742.pdf

So the issue of a Cimex possibly damaging a carpet should not be even a remote concern.

Thanks for your opinion!
We have ran 4 cimexes (and a couple orbots) over the years on millions of sqft of carpet so I know how the cimex runs. And I also don't think it is damaging to a properly installed carpet.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I love the Cimex, it's an awesome machine but I'd be concerned that the word "Planetary" would still be construed as rotary in a court room. Planetary describes the "rotation" of the heads, wouldn't a prosecuting attorney call "Planetary" simple semantics?

I don't foresee selling off all my Cimex's mainly due to the fact that the majority of carpet we clean is out of warranty. However I am concerned enough that I believe we will get a Trio or two for all the newer carpet we clean which possibly could be under warranty.

I might win that battle if it ever went to court BUT I don't want to go to court, I don't want to be in a tangled web with my client and a manufacturer. Because even if I won that case, I'd most likely lose that client.

 

[Mardie]

I love the Cimex, it's an awesome machine but I'd be concerned that the word "Planetary" would still be construed as rotary in a court room. Planetary describes the "rotation" of the heads, wouldn't a prosecuting attorney call "Planetary" simple semantics?

I don't foresee selling off all my Cimex's mainly due to the fact that the majority of carpet we clean is out of warranty. However I am concerned enough that I believe we will get a Trio or two for all the newer carpet we clean which possibly could be under warranty.

I might win that battle if it ever went to court BUT I don't want to go to court, I don't want to be in a tangled web with my client and a manufacturer. Because even if I won that case, I'd most likely lose that client.

Richard before you go out and spend good money on info from this thread, you should do your own research regarding warranties.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I appreciate your concern Mardie but Randy is no dummy, he's a pretty sharp dude. I value his opinion and am confident he knows what he's talking about. Plus its little risk, a bigger badder CRB will get put to use somewhere.

 

[Mardie]

From what I know of Randy I agree. But the reason I suggested that is because I listened to a guy yesterday that just got back from a meeting with all the carpet warranty decision makers at Shaw and he had some interesting things to say. I can not get into it because it is not my place to do so.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't think I can wait and take that kind of risk. We will start with one and see how it goes.

 

[Mardie]

I don't think I can wait and take that kind of risk. We will start with one and see how it goes.

It would be interesting to get your input on a comparison. But really I think you just got to much cash laying around and got no were to spend it. Must be nice.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yea that bed of cash I sleep on is getting lumpy. Spending a few bucks might make it a tad softer.

Seriously if its needed then we will purchase it, otherwise no point in spending the money.

 

[randy]

Once we have cleaned a reasonable amount of carpet with the TRIO I will definitely let you guys in on all the weaknesses and benefits. Although I trust Tom Whittaker and his crew of testers, you never know until you have some "personal time with your new friend". I have bought things in the past on sales pitches alone (the original rotoCRAP, opsy rotovac) that ended up being horrible, so I tend to over research. I would hate to have a $4,200 Trinity sitting in my shop that is impossible to get rid of for more than $1200-$1500. I don't think that will be the case with the TRIO but you still have to test, test, test. Last summer I was hearing all this wonderful stuff about the Trinity, even considered buying one. Then you find out the number one promoter was given a free machine "for all he is doing" by his own admission. Once I saw it at Connections and ran it, I was shocked how poorly made it was, how loud it was and the horrible reviews TODD, Gilstrap and two other buyers I talked with gave it. That's around the time I heard about the New TRIO and started researching it. Whittaker has a long history in this industry of putting out fantastic products and acting with integrity. For example they don't sell VLM as the be all end all of carpet maintenance. Make false claims that a customer is getting rid of his VORTEX because their new gizmo cleans better than a $100,000 set up, even while the customer is refuting that claim. Worst of all change their warranty AFTER the sale to avoid fixing a $200 problem. Tom Whittaker is a man of serious faith but you won't hear him claim his TRIO was ordered by GOD. " It will have three wheels, three speeds and three heads." THUS saith the LORD! Then a few months latter "God" changes his mind and drops a wheel, LOL. Now GOD is probably getting blamed for the lawsuit and the investigation by the Kentucky Attorney General's office.( God works in mysterious ways and is generating free publicity). This is one wild industry we have in my opinion, I'm not claiming to speak for the creator or anything. Just opinion from a fellow earthling.

 

[Mikey P]

Well put Randy.
How much more does the Trio weigh than the standard GLS ?

Do you really think the 3rd roll will make much difference in its ability to hide greasy soil?

 

[Rob Fairfield]

Orbitals do a great job, tend to use less water, carpet dries much faster and are very quite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuM5YBQsF9g

 

[Larry Cobb]

Well put Randy.
How much more does the Trio weigh than the standard GLS ?

Do you really think the 3rd roll will make much difference in its ability to hide greasy soil?

That is my question, also.

I do admit that I am sold on the 20" counter-rotating cylindrical brush machines . .

for amazing pile-lifting results.

Larry

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think CRB's do a great job on piled carpet, I've never been a fan of them on CGD.

Not enough weight, very little pile to lift up, results do anywhere near compare to the Cimex. However I'm in no position to fight a warranty
claim! If they say CRB's are the only machine to use then it's going to be CRB's (possibly complimented with HWE more frequently) until out of warranty.

Do I believe the Cimex damages carpet? I do not. I think foot traffic does more damage that a Cimex ever could BUT I'm not in the business of supplying warranty either.

 

[carpetcleaner]

CRBs work very well for any carpet installed over a pad. I have a little bit of trouble with level loop glued down, the brushes don't seem to be aggressive enough to lift the pile.

 

[Russ T.]

Powr-flite has a CRB for $1500. It only has a 14" brush but I wonder if anyone here has tried it? The only one I have used is the Whittaker 20" dual brush. I thought it was awesome for Commercial Glue Down. As great a product as the Whittaker is, I don't know if I can swing almost 4 grand for the Trio... I appreciate all the action on this thread, very informative. I'meaning toward buying a CRB.

 

[Derek]

I'meaning toward buying a CRB.

if you are then you might as well invest in one that is approved by the mills.

 

[Royal Man]

if you are then you might as well invest in one that is approved by the mills.

or clean commercial carpet that is over 5 years old. That is when they prorated out and most warranties are expired.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Well put Randy.
How much more does the Trio weigh than the standard GLS ?

Do you really think the 3rd roll will make much difference in its ability to hide greasy soil?

That is also my question ?

Does the 3rd brush taking power from the motor . . .

add cleaning ability.

I like the current two brush design with some mods we are making.

We have been testing some more aggressive different brush fibers

Larry

 

[John G]

Good grief Royer, do I need to point out every lie in your stupid post again?

I respect differing opinions, but liars are asses, plain and simple. You are shameless...

I would hate to have a $4,200 Trinity sitting in my shop that is impossible to get rid of for more than $1200-$1500. I don't think that will be the case with the TRIO but you still have to test, test, test. Last summer I was hearing all this wonderful stuff about the Trinity, even considered buying one. Then you find out the number one promoter was given a free machine "for all he is doing" by his own admission. Once I saw it at Connections and ran it, I was shocked how poorly made it was, how loud it was and the horrible reviews TODD, Gilstrap and two other buyers I talked with gave it. That's around the time I heard about the New TRIO and started researching it. Whittaker has a long history in this industry of putting out fantastic products and acting with integrity. For example they don't sell VLM as the be all end all of carpet maintenance. Make false claims that a customer is getting rid of his VORTEX because their new gizmo cleans better than a $100,000 set up, even while the customer is refuting that claim. Worst of all change their warranty AFTER the sale to avoid fixing a $200 problem.

Then you find out the number one promoter was given a free machine "for all he is doing" by his own admission
Coby was sent a machine, he BOUGHT THREE, after YEARS of working and testing to help me for FREE, giving him a machine, which of course he had no clue about, didn't come close to PAYING him for all his help... YOU KNOW THIS< but lie intentionally...
I was shocked how poorly made it was, how loud it was
Hey Royer, I have video of that time, and how SMOOTH and QUIET the machine was, again, why LIE about it?
the horrible reviews TODD, Gilstrap and two other buyers I talked with gave it.
Horrible? Check out THEIR video testing it against their ORBOT... again, LIE, LIE, LIE..
[video=youtube;4i-nnbOccG0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-nnbOccG0[/video]
For example they don't sell VLM as the be all end all of carpet maintenance.
Maybe they CAN'T.....
Make false claims that a customer is getting rid of his VORTEX because their new gizmo cleans better than a $100,000 set up, even while the customer is refuting that claim.
Did you call Paul Craig of Burns Clean Team Lexington, ? Obviously not, he would have laughed at you... liar... Anyone can call him and ask him.
We are going to do another show on PCN in the next month or so, Paul is coming on again, try asking him directly, I am sure that won't make any difference with you, once you start the lying it might be problematic to stop.
Worst of all change their warranty AFTER the sale to avoid fixing a $200 problem.
Again, 600 Dollar issue TODD created, no changes, and no avoiding. I will ask you just like others, when Todd takes me to court, if I win will you apologize for all the LYING you have done about me and my company.,.

Your God comments got me thinking, maybe as a mormon and Todd one as well, maybe that is the problem? You don't like the name TRINITY?
Whether your excuse, your lying will be shown for what it is.

 

[Shorty]

Does anyone know if the three head TRIO will be available in 220/240 volt ??