Flex ICE

[Cleanworks]

I recently ran out of Steam Way Fiber Refresh acid rinse detergent (pH 4.0-5.0) so I picked up a gallon of Clearwater Rinse (pH 2.7-3.3) which also contains encapsulating polymers. I didn't notice Flex Ice containing encapsulating ingredients.

I have not tried it yet. I don't use acid detergent rinse often. I rinse a lot to remove not only the soils but the prespray and have not caused myself any issues some have claimed with their experiences. If you remove the prespray it follows that you should not need to neutralize it. I don't use super high pH tlc often.

From the comments here it seems clear that it is hard to beat the cleaning performance of a well formulated alkaline product with an acid side cleaner. Of course there is more to cleaning performance than the pH of a product.

If the pH reading on the fiber after cleaning is a little alkaline there is usually nothing to worry about on synthetic carpet. (some tap water can be quite high in alkalinity) It's more important to me that the product does not contribute to resoiling, something an alkaline or acid product may or may not do.

I have been bucking the board trend by using a liquid prespray and a power rinse detergent. It seems most use a powder tlc and liquid rinse.

The recent Cleanfax article by Tom Forsythe was interesting. If I remember correctly one of the advantages of powders for cleaners was that it might be more cost effective, but not sure if that equated with cleaning better than a liquid. (I should go re-read it)

At any rate, I will try Flex Ice when I get to a distributor that carries it. Sadly, Cleanquest in Concord, CA doesn't seem to carry Bridgepoint.

Loren, I have been doing the same thing for over 30 years. I used to use a lot of steamway products, particularly, formula o followed by rinsing with one of their milder alkaline powders. In a test during a course I was taking, we presprayed an 11 ph product and rinsed with a 10 ph rinse. The carpet tested neutral with a ph pen. I agree that it is more important that you are not leaving any residue behind. Recently I cleaned with another cleaner who was using a fire and ice combo. At the end of the day my hands were sticky, skin tight and cracking. Something that doesn't happen when I use my normal products.

 

[Mikey P]

Tom just how much polymer would have to be loaded into a gallon of a liquid encapsulation rinse for it to work in a GPH metering system?

Keeping in mind that 90% or more of this rinse would be vacuumed away?


Sounds like a pixie dust laden fairy tail.

 

[SteamwayPro]

Flex Ice (use with soft water) does not have any encapsulants, but it rinses freely and at a dilution of 1 to 640 does not cause re-soiling. Encapsulants have yet to be incorporated into powdered products. Maybe that will be my next two year project.

Magic Wand makes a powdered encap called Atomic

 

[Tom Forsythe]

There is a difference in using an encap to neutralize any re-soiling tendencies and to leave a residue that limits re-soiling. No product rinsed at 1 to 320 (math does not work)will limit re-soiling like a low moisture encapsulant pre-spray. It can neutralize slight re-soiling tendencies of a rinse. We added an encap to End Zone as citric acid can re-soil. This addition took away that possibility. It is different when you dilute an encap pre-spray at 1 to 32 and do not extract. There is more than enough polymer left behind to limit future re-soiling.
There are a lot of polymers in the industry, but for the polymers that we use there is not a way to build it into a powdered encapsulant pre-spray. I have looked into this possibility and tried a few things without success. There may be a way to neutralize a resoiling tendency of a powdered product, but not to create an encapsulant pre-spray. Crystals, however, can be formed with other things besides polymers. I have a few surfactants that dry down into crystal residue. Adding this surfactant to a non-hygroscopic powder would probably create a residue similar to an encapsulant and could provide some cleaning performance. Soap Free cleaners have also been used as a low moisture pre-spray for bonneting.

 

[Loren Egland]

It's so good to have you contribute on this board Tom. Thanks for these explanations!

Am I correct in assuming that similar presprays such as Ultrapak, Maxpak, Grand Slam, etc. have these anti soiling polymers? So that even if you didn't rinse all the product out you are less likely to have resoiling when compared to not thoroughly rinsing many traffic lane cleaners without such polymers in their formula.
Perhaps one advantage of using some liquid presprays over powdered presprays? (Not considering cost effectiveness)

 

[ruff]

Interesting and informative.

Funny though, through 28 years of cleaning with multiple generations of new formulas, I found out that: A reasonable amount of pre-spray followed by a very good flush (mostly alkaline) and dry strokes, result in very few call backs (I get one or so every few years) and no re-soiling due to residue.

It seems like simple, good technique and procedures may have more to do with it than anything else.

 

[Tom Forsythe]

Encapsulating polymers became readily used for products to pass the soil resistance standards of the CRI. This soiling test was hard to pass and did not directly reflect the real world. Ofer's comments are right on that re-soiling was not an issue of multiple generation of formulas if it was done correctly. The CRI decided that re-soiling of commercial carpets was caused by improperly designed formulas. My perspective is that commercial accounts did not want to pay cleaners enough to do it properly. This led to bad habits like over applying pre-spray and racing through the rinse process. One other aspect missed in the testing is that chemistry is used up in the cleaning process while the standard re-soil test is to apply the chemical to clean carpet, let it dry, and then do the resoiling test. Some of our pre-sprays have encapsulating polymers in them, but when used properly I am not concerned about any of our pre-sprays causing re-soil issues.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

My perspective is that commercial accounts did not want to pay cleaners enough to do it properly. This led to bad habits like over applying pre-spray and racing through the rinse process

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