Fresh water rinsing.

[Mikey P]

I try and do a FWR when ever possible.

With pre sprays like Soap Free, Red Line, Procyon, Axiom and other STPP based juices and powders that are not laden with D'limolene or Butyl. I KNOW that carpet dries softer and stays cleaner longerwith just a high flow Soft Water rinsing.

That being said, when my Vortex was Chem meter-less I would often have to pre spray twice on heavily soiled areas, especially restaurants. This would cause over wetting and even wicking at times.


Now that I have my Judsons bastard child siphon system on the V I am able to enjoy the benefits of running Dry Slurry on my shit pits and if I under applied the PS I can just Hagopian the dirt way just like magic!



So my question is, do any of you die hard FWR guys refuse to use any detergent when you're doing commercial or thrashed homes based on principle, are you two cheap to buy a rinse agent or, like me were you cursed with a Butler and a Vortex with POS Prochem Chem pumps?

 

[Jim Morrison]

After cleaning the TI's strainer non stop for a month & taking my Cleanco in for a descaling, Dry Slurry (which I loved) makes me nervous. I have been running a lean acid through the system ever since. Seems like I can compensate by jacking up the PS on the nasties.

 

[Dolly Llama]

like me were you cursed with a Butler and a Vortex with POS Prochem Chem pumps?

the chem pump guys have always been the biggest advocates of FWR......for a reason


..L.T.A.

 

[green guy]

Love FWR but on trashed nothing like anti wick benefit of Axiom. Used to use ARA I save A step now. Liquid pol. are the best afterthough on the planet to reduce wicking. Even mist a bit of ReleaseIt on gritty bull nosing post extraction then groom.

 

[steve frasier]

The bad ones I use O2 or redline with soap free rinse, when O2 runs out going back to redline

others will get soapfree prespary and soft water

olefins with get snake oil and rinse, bad olefins with get soapfree rinse

if a franchise or the customer has been cleaning them then the get soft water or acid rinse

today did a dry rotary brush pie lift and soft water rinse on 1 year old nylon, that is what the custy wanted, no chems

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

On trashed commercial I reach for the RX-20 and giive it a FWR.

:-)

 

[Desk Jockey]

We FWR for several years, just thought it was over kill since we presprayed already.

When we finally started using a detergent rinse again we had several customers call in and say it had never looked so clean and felt so nice.

We no longer FWR, even if it's only lightly soiled we would use an acid side rinse.

 

[Willy P]

You guys are THICK Try prespraying and FWR,then try just a chem mixed in your water. Both clean right?

Well guess what? Both together clean better. I hear the residue misnomer about to be trotted out. Using a powder with a oh, say 80% recovery, how much residue is left?

Richard - move to the front of the class- you get it!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Thanks Willy......I was lost for three years though!

 

[Mikey P]

So is Soap Free a Well Formulated rinse for any prespray?

 

[renegade_cowboy]

I use white vinagar with a scent for years and i have great results. It gets all the residue out.

 

[Jeremy N]

This thread makes my head hurt.

I still don't know what to do.

 

[sweendogg]

Soap free has worked as a great rinse for all of my presprays.

 

[CleanEvo]

Lately I've been using Dirt assassin with a FWR and it works really well. Any residue left behind will dry brittle and vaccuum out.

On anything really nasty or a restaurant i'll still run the dry slurry rinse.

 

[Aaron Richards]

How many oz per gallon of the Dirt Assasin are you using? Also, how's the smell of the dirt assasin?

 

[Lyman]

I was a fwr guy for 10 years and now I am hooked on the whole 123 system for 3 months. Me using an acid rinse, I never would have thought about it, but the system works.

 

[Loren Egland]

I like to get out the soils and other contaminants out of the carpet that can be left behind with fresh water rinse. 'Formula A' through my machine cleans good!

 

[ruff]

We FWR for several years, just thought it was over kill since we presprayed already.

When we finally started using a detergent rinse again we had several customers call in and say it had never looked so clean and felt so nice.

We no longer FWR, even if it's only lightly soiled we would use an acid side rinse.

DITO!

 

[ruff]

So is Soap Free a Well Formulated rinse for any prespray?

How about once and for all getting this "Rinse" thing settled!

Soap free is not a "rinse."

It may sound better, however if you are using a detergent in line, it is still cleaning with a detergent.
Yes , it will remove most of the pre-spray. Yet it will still leave a detergent residue, though very little, if done right.

What doesn't?

A "rinse" is either fresh water or "acid" (even though an acid will leave a residue too.)

For that matter, water will also leave a mineral residue (depending on hardness) and soft water will leave salt.

And lets not talk about reverse osmosis please.

Pretty please!

 

[hogjowl]

I use nothing but Judson's O2 and their rinse, because believe it or not, the rinse they make seems to clean better together with their prespray than a detergent. I keep some of Acellerated (Doodaddy)'s Liquid One Step on hand and it would be the only thing I would rinse with if the Judson's rinse was not available. Liquid One Step is a killer TM detergent. I will bring it out on restaurants and the occasional nasty commercial mfg. plant environment. But for the residential and light commercial, nothing works better for ME than the O2 combination.

 

[Cleancare]

Can't say I'm speaking from experience, but here's something that I read from an old text book the other day regarding the "fallacies" of extracting low soiled areas with plain water, which I think also relates to rinsing:

1. Impossible to remove all residue of the preconditioning detergent used, so there is no such thing as complete chemical rinsing. (Which I believe it's suggesting, you might as well use an acid rinse).
2. Quality detergents properly used will dry to a crystalised or flakey residue which will be removed with subsequent home-vacuuming.
3. Recent tests (read: this book is OLD) by British carpet cleaning trade associations reveal that a quality detergent's residue actually retards soiling by leaving a slight dry residual which fills the irregularities on the surface of fibre. This keeps subsequent soiling out of these irregularities and on the fibre's surface where it is more easily removed with routine home-vacuuming.

 

[Art Kelley]

Fresh water rinse with Detroit tap water has been my M.O. for 35 years. If you put down the appropriate prespray at the appropriate rate you never have to do the hack style of rinsing with an emulsfier and leave all that crap in the carpets. My jobs look great and my customers love my work.

 

[davegillfishing]

nothing but ro water here..not even a option to run any shit through my
butler, i had them build it w/o a chem pump and meter..
i would put my rinse up against any chem out there, i have been doing it for 4 years now
and not had a single problem or issue..we have a 98% customer retention and have been
doing the very first customer i ever did every 6-8 months for 4 years..
dave

 

[Goldenboy]

Art there is a reason that you are #4 in the nation right now. I had a couple of people watchin you @ Nashville. They gave me some info and verified you are the real deal.

Golden Boy

 

[Erik]

Fresh water rinse with Detroit tap water has been my M.O. for 35 years. If you put down the appropriate prespray at the appropriate rate you never have to do the hack style of rinsing with an emulsfier and leave all that crap in the carpets. My jobs look great and my customers love my work.[/quot Detroit has the best water in the whole world. We also have the most trash. The place is a real ******* dump but we love our water.

 

[lance]

You can PS and rinse with anything you like. And the better the water used the less chems you have to use and the better they come out.

A "system" is meant to be used together for a reason. The PS does one thing and it's rinse agent does another. If you rinse with an acid, then as soon as it comes in contact with the PS the cleaning action is "stopped" right then and there. If you rinse with fresh water there is a chance that not all of the PS is picked as well as possible. RO water works better because it is very hungry for minerals and such and works like a magnet.

What you want for complete cleaning is a PS that emulsifies the soil load in a quanity where every molecule of dirt is matched with a molecule of PS. Now that the soil is detached from the fiber it has to get cleaned by the rinse. A rinse that is made to effectively do that keeps the cleaning cycle going until all the dirt + PS is taken out of the carpet.

I have used Hardball Chems for a long time and they do a great job as a package. Judson juice is made for the same purpose.....so if you use these two then you know that they were formulated SPECIFICALLY for each other.

I still have the educational material that Mr. Vernon sent me a long time ago that explains this. Talk to him and maybe he still sends it out with orders of his chems.

 

[CleanEvo]

How many oz per gallon of the Dirt Assasin are you using? Also, how's the smell of the dirt assasin?

2 -6 oz per gallon depending on soiling. Usually 2 - 4 oz for residential. I did a fish and chip place this morning at 6oz and the grease melted away. The smell is a mild citrus, and it's pleasant. It has decent deodorizing as well. The dirt assassin green is not as good, but still decent and will satisfy the green only customer.

I've been pretty impressed with all the vacaway stuff, especially their spotters. Didn't like encap green, but everything else has been very good.

 

[Aaron Richards]

Ditto that on the Vac Away Spotters! Just came home tonight and founed my packages from Jeremy at the Encap Store. Hel-gel and Spot n boost and a case of Judsons O2. Been tempted to try the Dirt Assasin but have just been really impressed with Judsons system.

p.s. Thanks Jeremy! That was quick!

 

[CleanEvo]

Ditto that on the Vac Away Spotters! Just came home tonight and founed my packages from Jeremy at the Encap Store. Hel-gel and Spot n boost and a case of Judsons O2. Been tempted to try the Dirt Assasin but have just been really impressed with Judsons system.

p.s. Thanks Jeremy! That was quick!

Judson makes good stuff too. I just tried Judsons Snake Oil, while I didn't like it as much as Releasit DS with the gravity feed on the Cimex, I really liked it with a pad on the Orbot or a bonnet on a 175.

 

[amazingcleansc]

Can't say I'm speaking from experience, but here's something that I read from an old text book the other day regarding the "fallacies" of extracting low soiled areas with plain water, which I think also relates to rinsing:

1. Impossible to remove all residue of the preconditioning detergent used, so there is no such thing as complete chemical rinsing. (Which I believe it's suggesting, you might as well use an acid rinse).
2. Quality detergents properly used will dry to a crystalised or flakey residue which will be removed with subsequent home-vacuuming.
3. Recent tests (read: this book is OLD) by British carpet cleaning trade associations reveal that a quality detergent's residue actually retards soiling by leaving a slight dry residual which fills the irregularities on the surface of fibre. This keeps subsequent soiling out of these irregularities and on the fibre's surface where it is more easily removed with routine home-vacuuming.

bowl cheet. that akalinity of the detergent will attract acidic soils, and make the carpet feel crunchy. an acid rinse will degrade that detergent into water and a little bit of a salt.