Hagopian Pricing

[Ken Snow]

3 rooms, hall and 13 stairs = $124.99 (total of about 450 sq ft plus the stairs)
6' Sofa = $71.99 (with 3 loose back cushions)

Protectant on all = $98.49
Total = $295.22

We are doing this size type job many dozens of times a day. Why are some people here hung up on our pricing and manufacturing their own conclusions? Just ask questions people- I don't typically hide or avoid answering much.

Ken

 

[Jeremy N]

I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[joe harper]

3 rooms, hall and 13 stairs = $124.99 (total of about 450 sq ft plus the stairs)
6' Sofa = $71.99 (with 3 loose back cushions)

Protectant on all = $98.49
Total = $295.22

We are doing this size type job many dozens of times a day. Why are some people here hung up on our pricing and manufacturing their own conclusions? Just ask questions people- I don't typically hide or avoid answering much.

Ken

"It soooooooooooooo.....lOnlEy @ the TOP.... :mrgreen: "

 

[Ken Snow]

Never lonely, but often frustrating.

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[Zee]

That sounds about right Ken.

So how much would your crew leaders charge for a sofa that is -lets say- a 3 seater with 6 loose back pillows and 3 cushions (sit on) both sides of all cushions and pillows and the back of the sofa as well?

Do they have to stick with that price or the pricing goes up some 5-8bucks a pillow or cushion? How do they price an 18 foot long L-shape sectional?
How much is the protector on upholstery?
Do your crews upsell a lot of jobs with protector or is that done buy your phone answering crews?

 

[Zee]

And another question... Most of the 3 seater sofas I come across are more than 6' long. So do your guys measure it up and add another 10-15 bucks because its 7' ?

Sorry about all the questions but you said to ask!!!

 

[Ken Snow]

It is by the foot after 7 ft and the additional loose back cushions are 4$ each. Protectant is sold over the phone and/or by the crews on about 70% of all cleaning jobs.

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[Zee]

Ok 6' 71.99 with 3 loose pillows.

$12 for the 3 pillows that leaves 59.99 for the 6'. I divide that with 6 that is$9.99 for one foot.
So do your techs just add 9.99 for any additional foot length and $4 for any pillows cushions.

Do your customers know that very clear before the tech arrives that a lot of times that 71.99 will not be sufficient enough to "get the whole couch done"? Or is there a bit of a surprise in it?

 

[Ken Snow]

Actually it is up to a 7' for that price. Hopfully we have done our job correctly on the phones and given the customer enough info to figure it out themselves (if they don't know the length when they call) so there is no surprise. Surprise in home = problems.

If you would like a complete set of our price lists shoot me an email and I am happy to send you one. Don't pm cause I don't know how to reply with an attachment to one. These are not what we use on the phone with customers typically as it is all prgrammed into our customer service software using clicks, but we have them for when our system is down or to send out to people.

kensnow@originalhagopian.com

 

[Bob Foster]

Ken, thanks for being so generous and open about what you are doing.

 

[rwcarpet]

3 rooms, hall and 13 stairs = $124.99 (total of about 450 sq ft plus the stairs)
6' Sofa = $71.99 (with 3 loose back cushions)

Protectant on all = $98.49
Total = $295.22

We are doing this size type job many dozens of times a day. Why are some people here hung up on our pricing and manufacturing their own conclusions? Just ask questions people- I don't typically hide or avoid answering much.

Ken

This is reasonable pricing in my area (NE Ohio), and probably about where I'm at. I may go a little more on the couch.

 

[Ron Werner]

Ken, thanks for being so generous and open about what you are doing.

I second that.

We have a multitruck company here just put out a coupon,
their regular prices actually, until they "upsell"
2Rms-Hall=$79 (wall to wall),
4Rms and Hall=$99
3Seat sofa=79 (Plus Free Armchair) loose cushions -leather extra
5rms, hall, 13 stairs=149

restrictions: Max Rm size is 225sf, LR/DR Combos count as 2 rooms
taxes, Waste handling and Energy Charges Extra
Valid for "Houses" only

This company is busy all year long I believe.


if I forgot everything I've learned over the past 19yrs, I could work for those prices and do 2-3 a day

in 92 when I first started cleaning, The Bay was charging around $70-80/6ft sofa
throw some Formula 90 in the porty FW tank and have at it. 6ft sofa would take about 20-30 min.
Twas never the way I cleaned even before I started vacuuming, thats why I didn't last there

That job would take your tech about an Hour, Two at most?

 

[idreadnought]

you said ask so. What is the average time it takes you crew to clean those items, drive up to drive off? do you move the furniture also?

 

[Bob Foster]

you said ask so. What is the average time it takes you crew to clean those items, drive up to drive off? do you move the furniture also?

Good questions Richard. Another thing is what would the difference in time be from one man to a two man crew for the same job and what would the average percentage in change in invoice be.

I suspect the profit in Ken's system has a lot more to do with how he runs everything else in the company. It is likely a lot easier for Ken to get his invoice prices higher (good upselling training and culture) than it is for him to reduce costs (or increase margin) on the other operations and cost of sales aspect of his company.

Little things have big impact in that kind of business.

For example, if he was one customer phone agent too short and customers were put on hold for 45 seconds instead of 25 seconds it could cost him thousands of dollars a month in business from call drop off. Or changing the policy of when trucks are fueled could cost him 30 minutes a week per truck in lost production time. That equates to thousands when you count the number of wheels he has on the road.

Changing the temperature in his drying tower by 2 degrees could cost him a an extra $3000 per year but it could turn his rug roll up time down by 5% and increase his in plant rug cleaning production revenue by $10,000. Those decisions and analysis are critical to running a company like this.

Those little things are where all his profit is. If he has a ROI of 8 percent he is having a fantastic year.

 

[Ken Snow]

you said ask so. What is the average time it takes you crew to clean those items, drive up to drive off? do you move the furniture also?

Good questions Richard. Another thing is what would the difference in time be from one man to a two man crew for the same job and what would the average percentage in change in invoice be.

I suspect the profit in Ken's system has a lot more to do with how he runs everything else in the company. It is likely a lot easier for Ken to get his invoice prices higher (good upselling training and culture) than it is for him to reduce costs (or increase margin) on the other operations and cost of sales aspect of his company.

Little things have big impact in that kind of business.

For example, if he was one customer phone agent too short and customers were put on hold for 45 seconds instead of 25 seconds it could cost him thousands of dollars a month in business from call drop off. Or changing the policy of when trucks are fueled could cost him 30 minutes a week per truck in lost production time. That equates to thousands when you count the number of wheels he has on the road.

Changing the temperature in his drying tower by 2 degrees could cost him a an extra $3000 per year but it could turn his rug roll up time down by 5% and increase his in plant rug cleaning production revenue by $10,000. Those decisions and analysis are critical to running a company like this.

Those little things are where all his profit is. If he has a ROI of 8 percent he is having a fantastic year.

Well said Bob, the calls being answered quickly and properly are absolutely critical.

That job would typically take an hour and change and with our tight routing due to volume we can do many a day per crew. Having one on the truck would slow it down about 30%, but ideally wouldn't effect the ticket size. It would effect how much a 1 person could do in a day so for us 2 men is far more productive/profitable.

ROI is far higher by many times Bob, but really for our business it is about pretax profit or even ROA vs ROI. ROI is a very nebulous thing in a long running service/retail business~ more applicable to real estate ventures or other types of inv in my opinion. Example (purely hypothetical) Lets pretend that in 1939 old man Harry invested 10$ for his strip and dye kit and everything else spent after that was out of profits generated. His total investment is $10 Fast forward to 2010 and the business generates $1 million in profit~ what the heck is the ROI for 2010? Is it related to the $10 investment or do you have to add all the reinvested profits of 71 years? Or is it the Owners Equity on the balance sheet, which is how much has been retained into the company but does not include all the monies expensed for capital purchases that are depreciated but still really have value? ROA and pre-tax profit are just easier to get a head around in my opinion.

Ken

 

[Ron Werner]

That job would typically take an hour and change

Thats from pull up to pulling out??

 

[idreadnought]

Wow an hour and change drive up to drive off? Those guys move quick. Do you duel wand with upholstery and carpet? Move furniture? I'm just wondering to gauge the productivity of my guys.

 

[Ken Snow]

Pretty much, some a little less~ some a little more. If prepped properly for us, and typical light to moderate soil load, that would be about right.

 

[Brian R]

Hell, with a good TM I could do 3 rooms and stairs in an hour and a half or less.

 

[joeynbgky]

I am similar to ken. We do about the same pricing and do volume....... very little time for add ons they have to be be scheduled for other days. Unless its furniture. I would rather have more lower priced volume than high priced 2 jobs a day. That's just me. More money is great, but come on. A lot of you have very high mark ups

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[idreadnought]

even with two guys i cant envision us doing that in 1.25 hours drive up to drive off. hmm i wonder what i'm doing wrong

 

[joeynbgky]

We do it with one guy. Its called hustlin and working hard , fast and still doing a good job.

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[Ken Snow]

We do it with one guy. Its called hustlin and working hard , fast and still doing a good job.

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10-4 good buddy :-)

 

[joeynbgky]

One tech is at about 1.5 hours including vacuuming. Two guys on a truck, I think is a waste of time and money for 90% of residential jobs

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[Ron Werner]

Hell, with a good TM I could do 3 rooms and stairs in an hour and a half or less.

You've got the carpets done in 1.5hrs, now you've still got a 3 seat sofa to clean, You've got 5minutes to stay on schedule :roll:

and I believe Kens stated in the past there is high repeat percentage and a low reservice rate.
Surprising.
The company I mentioned above has a rep for cleaning at that speed, they have a high turnover rate in techs, a high reservice rate, and if the number of people that call me after having them is any indication, a very low repeat percentage. They spend a LOT of money marketing to replace customers.

 

[Ken Snow]

One tech is at about 1.5 hours including vacuuming. Two guys on a truck, I think is a waste of time and money for 90% of residential jobs

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I agree with that, and with 2 on our trucks it would be at 30% + less time= more total volume per day per truck for us vs 1 person crews. It's all good

 

[Steve Toburen]

I agree with that, and with 2 on our trucks it would be at 30% + less time= more total volume per day per truck for us vs 1 person crews. It's all good

Maybe one of the reasons Ken's turnover is so low is that he works two techs on a truck. Carpet cleaning is a high burnout profession physically and emotionally for an employee pushing a wand and two people just lightens the load tremendously.

Steve Toburen
www.SFS.JonDon.com

PS I hope you folks appreciate what Ken is sharing with you. A different view of the profession from someone who not only has "been there" but is also doing it. Absolutely priceless!

 

[Brian R]

We do it with one guy. Its called hustlin and working hard , fast and still doing a good job.

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10-4 good buddy :-)

It's also called not over working a job...Some guys clean the clean carpet even though it's already clean.
That whole vacuuming for an hour (sorry Ron)...Even if you're OPing....is ...How did John Wayne put it "reGoddamndiculous)

Just clean it and get done.

But then if you're charging double or triple I think some guys think they need to justify that price with "time spent"....and maybe so...But it's all about how much money you can make in a day (in this example) If you make double on the job and spend triple the time or worse....no good.

 

[Brian R]

[quote="Brian R":15szlj2w]Hell, with a good TM I could do 3 rooms and stairs in an hour and a half or less.

You've got the carpets done in 1.5hrs, now you've still got a 3 seat sofa to clean, You've got 5minutes to stay on schedule :roll:

and I believe Kens stated in the past there is high repeat percentage and a low reservice rate.
Surprising.
The company I mentioned above has a rep for cleaning at that speed, they have a high turnover rate in techs, a high reservice rate, and if the number of people that call me after having them is any indication, a very low repeat percentage. They spend a LOT of money marketing to replace customers.[/quote:15szlj2w]


I didn't include the upholstery. Sorry. BUT...Most of the time is spent setting up and tearing down etc...To add a room or even a piece of furniture to clean does not add that much time unless you let it.

 

[Brian R]

http://www.SFS.JonDon.com[/url]

PS I hope you folks appreciate what Ken is sharing with you. A different view of the profession from someone who not only has "been there" but is also doing it. Absolutely priceless! [/quote:2abzbjys]


Man, I agree with that part. I get torn between the 1 or 2 tech argument. BUT I do know that even if my 15 year old goes with me just to vacuum or groom....it really makes the job go sooo much easier if only for the company...But the little bit of work helps too.

I always tried to run 2 guys back in my chem dry days...Because I think the extra work of a chem dry set up warranted it.

I used to bring my brother who didn't do a ton of work...But made the day go quicker.

And that whole emotional thing....I know every one of the one guy operators start talking to themselves sooner or later.

When I worked for the City of Sunnyvale years ago (and cleaned part time) I was a meter reader. Spent th entire day by myself....maybe the occasional homeowner in the front lawn. They actually went over the whole "talking to yourself" thing in training. :shock:

And lets' face it....I'm crappy company.