Hard Starting........Genesis/Ford Mechanics....

[rwcarpet]

Since there are no Powerclean techs available, maybe some of the mechanics here can chime in. It is a Ford Endura, carbureted, 4-cyl. 2003. Very hard to start when cold...sitting all night, assumes ambient temp. Choked , not choked, wide open throttle....nothing starts it. But give it a shot of starting fluid, and it cranks right up and runs fine. It also starts through out the day as long as it's warm.

Good filters, just changed the plugs. No difference. When it does start, it runs strong.

It has a distriborless coil ignition system, which fires 2 cyl's at the same time....one on combustion, the opposite cyl. on the exhaust stroke. I've got extra parts from the used genesis I bought, and will start changing parts out.

Where should I start? You think the cooling temp sensor or the egr valve is the culprit??

 

[Dolly Llama]

you sure your choke is working?

what kind of fuel pump?


..l.T.A.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Also look down the carb throat and see if the acceleration pump is working

 

[Jimbo]

Hey RW...could there possibly be an oil pressure safety switch in the ignition circuit? ...maybe a fault there...but it sounds more like a fuel issue...weak fuel pump? Has the carb been off recently for anything? Maybe wrong float level in carb?

 

[rwcarpet]

Hey RW...could there possibly be an oil pressure safety switch in the ignition circuit? ...maybe a fault there...but it sounds more like a fuel issue...weak fuel pump? Has the carb been off recently for anything? Maybe wrong float level in carb?

Yes, Jimbo....there is an oil safety switch. I have to check the manual to see if it is NOpen or NClosed. Then I can bypass it to check.


I think I'll start with the coolant temp sensor tomorrow. When coolant is cold, it retards the timing until it starts. Can only test one item a day....gotta let it cool completely down before trying to start to get the cold start results. Choke is manual, and fine. I would think that the fuel pump wouldn't affect starting, since it is mechanical, and the carb bowl would be full on start up. The fuel pump will be next in line, though. Then the coil pack. At least I have all the extra parts I need instead of having to locate and buy them. Parts for that engine are hard to find. It took me 3 parts stores to finally nail down the right oil filter. It's not a stocked part.

I don't like using too much starter fluid cause it does wash oil from the cyl walls for a brief second. Add that up day after day and it could cause problems. It is a solvent.

 

[Ron Lippold]

i would say its a static leak on the fuel pump, but it could also be a ignition module, ford had problems with both these items

 

[Magic One]

fuel pump ground?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

If it starts right up with ether starting fluid you can eliminate all the ignition side issues, like sensors etc. It's FUEL.

If it's a MECHANICAL fuel pump that eliminates wiring issues there as well.

When we ran Kohlers I added a $10 5 psi fuel pressure gauge just before the carb. (AutoZone) It helped with troubleshooting.

 

[rwcarpet]

Well, I think I found it. I replaced the temp sensor today, and it made no difference. Tonight, I replaced the mechanical fuel pump (took maybe 1/2 hour to R&R), pulled the choke out, cranked it about 4-5 seconds, and she started right up. Pump probably wasn't pushing fuel up to the carb strong enough. It does have to draw about 31/2 feet up, from the bottom of the tank to the carb on top of the engine.

I'll know first thing in the morning after it has sat all nite and cooled completely.

 

[rwcarpet]

Well, I think I found it. I replaced the temp sensor today, and it made no difference. Tonight, I replaced the mechanical fuel pump (took maybe 1/2 hour to R&R), pulled the choke out, cranked it about 4-5 seconds, and she started right up. Pump probably wasn't pushing fuel up to the carb strong enough. It does have to draw about 31/2 feet up, from the bottom of the tank to the carb on top of the engine.

I'll know first thing in the morning after it has sat all nite and cooled completely.

Well, the fuel pump change didn't make a difference. Hard start this morning after sitting all nite. I might try the coil pack tomorrow. Then the vacuum/cold start relay next. maybe even the carb.....I got an extra.

A new machine is looking more tempting.....

 

[Jimbo]

Is there a fuel filter on the system?? I'd replace that also...maybe some debris in there could make it tougher for the fuel pump to work at peak volume...

 

[Magic One]

if the fuel isn't reaching the carb. the TM elect pump is bad. You may be getting good pressure but bad volume. Let know what you find out? I've seen new one go bad. Be sure you don't cross the wires. Is your slow idle too slow?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

MECHANICAL fuel pump Jimmy. Usually a diaphram pump driven off the camshaft.

Back when mechanical pumps were the norm the engine usually was pulling only 3-6" vertically from the fuel tank. With a truckmount sitting UP in the truck the pump has to pull more. It's easy for it to "lose prime".

Fuel pumps PUSH better than they PULL. I'd bet adding an electric pump under the van near the tank PUSHING up would make the whole problem go away.

 

[Jim Martin]

did you get the fuel pump arm in the right spot on the cam...I have seen this many times.......

fuel filer would be the next pace to check.....there may be more then one..may be one in line some where and one hooked to the carb.............

 

[Magic One]

Lee I tink your add a elct.pump

 

[rwcarpet]

MECHANICAL fuel pump Jimmy. Usually a diaphram pump driven off the camshaft.

Back when mechanical pumps were the norm the engine usually was pulling only 3-6" vertically from the fuel tank. With a truckmount sitting UP in the truck the pump has to pull more. It's easy for it to "lose prime".

Fuel pumps PUSH better than they PULL. I'd bet adding an electric pump under the van near the tank PUSHING up would make the whole problem go away.

Changed the fuel pump....no difference. Yesterday, I changed out the carb, but no difference.
I think it has to do with the timing when starting. The ICD (ignition coil driver) automatically
sets the timing to 10*BTDC for under 250 rpm for starting by way of a vac line. I'll change that out next.

When using starting spray, it starts right up and runs. Without....no start. Just a PITA to spray every morning.

 

[Magic One]

It must be y-town thing. Mine is hard to start put new elec fuel pump and filters. I have to turn it over with choke off and pull it on>

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Did you ever confirm that it had at least 3-5 psi of fuel pressure during these hard starts?

 

[rwcarpet]

Did you ever confirm that it had at least 3-5 psi of fuel pressure during these hard starts?

No, Lee......I will put a gauge on it tomorrow. I know the float bowl is full on startup. Wouldn't that be enough fuel to get it started? Once it kicks with the ether, it's off and running.

I'll check 2morrow.