How does a V or AT increase productivity??

[Dolly Llama]

I understand how dual wanding increases productivity.
That's a no brainer
But how does it benefit the single man crew?
I read Jim and Dave's post how they couldn't produce the amount of work a day without their V/AT.

Could someone help me with why not?

It must be the larger blower??
Cause that's the only thing that's different from any other similarly set up TM

ie, you can use electric hose reels and larger water tanks on any TM.

and in the case of the older Vs w/number 5 blower, there's be no difference between other #5 blowered TMs

What am I missing??

..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Martin]

2 story home.......4 bedroom and a loft up stairs
14 stairs 2 landings
downstairs...master bedroom........family room and living room with formal dining........

you walk in there with your portable unit..........lug it upstairs. find water ..plug in ETC ETC get to work...........on a average cleaning this home with a portable maybe 4 to 5 hours (? lets say) cleaning strokes (?) dry strokes(?) you are more than likely working hard.........


same home.............year later.......only this time you pull up in a nice new van with a CDS/butler/ whatever.............
unroll hose find a water hook up... unroll APO hose find a place to dump...pull everything upstairs and get to work .......but you are not doing as many cleaning strokes or dry passes as before.cleaning is going faster your time has increased and you manage to get the home completed in about 3 to 4 hours (?)......


same home......year later...........this time you pull up in a V/AT (your choice)walk in carry everything upstairs and get to work........you are not doing as many cleaning strokes and you are doing far less dry strokes....
home completed in 2 to 3 hours....................and I did not work half as hard..........


times may not be on the mark but I think you can understand what I am trying to say.........with the amount of time I can save by just loosing a few extra steps on pulling hose threw the coarse of a day I can add another job in there and that don't account for the time I can save in cleaning and still maintain a high quality level....

 

[Dolly Llama]

Thanks Jim.

I can understand the increased efficiency of not having to set up fresh water lines and pump out hoses.

so if you had large water tanks, the only difference would be the blower size?

..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Martin]

blower size would play a good part in it if you want to look at the time you are saving doing less dry strokes

another way of looking at the blower helping you is in long runs.I know with my CDS anything over 150 ft and i was loosing vacuum working harder and doing alot more dry strokes.....
I can run 300 ft and barley drop anything .......and still not work half as hard....

there are alot of little things that add up and help.......

time is money and the more you can save without loosing any type of quality you are going to be alot further ahead

 

[Jerry]

We have a guy in my area with 2 V's. He seems to do well. I have received some previous customers from them. I ask why? They tell me that he was in and out TOO FAST! They say the carpet looked good, but was driving away in 45 minutes for LR,DR,FR and a couple of bedrooms. That's about half of the time it would take me, and they are about a nickle cheaper than me(.25 per sq.) I was kinda shocked!
I think if you had two techs on every job, the customer could justify the shortened time to complete the job. But, when it's one guy coming in and they crank out the job in half the time as the last guy, they get suspicious? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a V/AT someday, but I am just telling you all what I have heard from a few people.
Jim and Dave, do you purposely slow down if the homeowner is standing there or at home?

Jerry

 

[Jim Martin]

It don't matter if someone is standing over me or if I am in a empty by myself I clean the exact same way...............

I have never had a problem with anyone saying that I was to fast.......or to slow for that matter.........
sounds like you got one of those unusual clients.........If she has no complaints about how cleaning she should not be concerned with the time plus he had 2 techs so that right there should of told her something.......

 

[Guest]

Larry,

The set up, the heat and the suction allow me to clean faster.

Jerry,

I have an exceptional relationship with my customers. I clean the same if they are watching or not. I do so much more than most. I take extra time and cover any wood including hand rails with moving blankets and there is so much more I do.

Dave

 

[Jerry]

Yea, I clean the same way, Jim. Doesn't make any difference to me if the custy is there or not. The customers that I spoke of, maybe they are a little to anal,LOL. The jobs were completed by one man only, the owner.
That's what she was talking about. IF it was a two man crew she can see it.
It would sure be nice to come clean with you in sunny AZ right now!
Take care,
Jerry

 

[Jim Martin]

lol come on down............plenty of carpet for everyone...........

 

[Jerry]

What I should do is, if the wife will let me, go hang with Dave rampage in the summer and clean with him, and then when the snow is flyin here, go clean with Jim or Mickey! Tell my accountant that it's research!
Jerry

 

[Jimmy L]

I noticed a noticeable increase in production just going from a slide in to a PTO. Less set up and tweaking/warm up etc.
And dumping the 11 inch PC wand to a 16 inch castex wand.

 

[Guest]

Do I have a big truck? NOPE.

Are they faster than a good TM.. NO

Are they faster than a Porty? Hell yeah.

Are they faster than a TM like a Butler.. with tanks.. hose reels.. etc?
NO.. same exact set up.
they dont drive any faster to the jobsite.
You still have to pull in hoses.
You still have to wand. You still have to edge.

Nothing changes. And with the advent of 2.5'' hoses.. and bigger blowers on any TM or unit for that matter.. the playing field is all level. Greenie once told me that in certain words.. and with my Stock Butler.. i found it to be oh so true. It totally allowed me to turn my head on all the 'overpriced' and way too big BIG TRUCKS..

now.. if you have a little penis.. and you are one of those guys that by all means.. thinks bigger is better... and you're trying to impress the hubbies in the hood.. Rock on with the V or AT..



NOw what one has to ask themselves.. is length of hose runs.

My avg.. is well under 1oo'... Now thats just me.. the next guy may be totally different.
Only once.. in 8 years.. have i extended past 150'.

I'll consider myself fortunate.

Dual wanding? Hands down.. advantage to the big truck. But null that advantage. I'll take the second employee VLM'ing certain areas.. and prepping my HWE in the needed areas.
Most long runs.. and large areas.. are commercial phenomenons... and encap plays a huge part in those jobs.. esp on all lighter soiled areas.
So i do prefer 2 people on the jobs.. just not 2 wands going. To each their own.

Larry.. you're thinking right. I've tried to tell myself why I should spend 85k... when infact this very day.. i order my new Butler.. for 46k..
With my bigger hoses.. and some minor adjustments.. i assure you.. i have the vac comparable.. using twice the water.. and dry times under an hour most times.. NOT making extra drypasses.. I do a 1 1/2 dry pass method.. be it a Big Truck or my Butler.. my method won'tchange.

HEAT.. advantage V or AT.. until i get my new Butler.. with the higher heat option.

And for mobility.. speed.. etc.. VAN..
There are 25% of my jobs... that a Big Truck WILL NOT make it into.. and no.. i can't park farther and make a longer hose runs.

So for me.. the big truck is OUT..

Now.. Butlers i'll consider.. all the kick.. much smaller body.. same heat.. great vac.. long hose runs.. and 20k off the V and AT tag.

The big trucks.. IMO... are a fad.. and overkill for the avg. O/Op..

To try to tell a good op that they are indeed more efficient. ... its just self justification of the payment.

I know better.

All the top TMs.. with reels.. heat.. vac.. larger 2.5'' vac lines.. they all play the same game. same setup.. same everything.

just a helluva lot less $$$$

If for 1% of me thought differently.. I 'd make the call today.

Thats my take.. and i'm sticking to it.

 

[Jim Martin]

why is that if something is working well for some one it is always self justification for a payment from those who don't agree.........

the machine is not for every one we all have our own ways of handling the structure of our companies........

I can say form experience what it has done for me.........

 

[Greenie]

Super capacity, super heat, super vacuum alone will cut your time.

Run a PowerMatic out 200' and tell me how good the vacuum is, time is money, and every dry pass cost time.

Meat, do you have all the elec. reels?
200 gal of on board water?

Those two items alone can save quite a bit of time on small jobs, number one thing I would have added is an elec. reel.

 

[Blue Monarch]

Electric reel would be awesome. Mine is hard as hell to turn and wipes me out.

 

[Mikey P]

One wet, two dry will clean most everything.


Not having to empty out your van to get to something in back.


240 fresh tank, 140 waste.


Not needing a RX, RV or RDM to get exceptional results and phenomenal dry times.


Having all your tools handy and with you at all times. Not back home in the garage.


Now put a second guy and a wand and you're really using the machine for it's intended use.

 

[adamh]

Until you have ran a big truck for a few weeks you will never know. I have a small box truck with a pimped boxxer 427 in it. When my Tech and I separate out we have to draw straws to see who gets screwed with the boxxer.

Down deep inside everybody wants the big truck. If they didn't they wouldn't spend an hour writing looooong posts on why they don't want one and always bring up penis sizes because they feel short in several areas themselves. LOL

The truth be told not everybody should have a big truck. There are companies making truck loads of money with just a slide in. If you are not an established company pulling in at least $10k a month you should not have a big truck/big payment. I myself love my Vortex and hope to buy another one in 2008.

 

[Jim Martin]

If you are not an established company pulling in at least $10k a month you should not have a big truck/big payment.

I am only 4 years old and I would not consider myself established yet in anyway.................and I am not making 10k a month ........but why would I want to have this stop me from getting something that could help me put it there...........why would I ever want to limit myself...........I want to grow and structure my company the way I want to see it move... but if I don't make your numbers you think it is a bad idea to get something that could possibly help me get there.......
now I agree it is not for everyone and not everyone will like the machine......
but weather it be a Vortex, A/T. Butler, CDS or whatever............if you can get something to help yourself..only your numbers matter... only you are holding you back..........

 

[Guest]

Dobs, is the heat on a Butler really the same as a Vortex???? I'd really be interested in seeing proof of that.

I'd listen to guys like Jim Martin and Adam Hale and Mike P who actually have owned both and used both. It's easy for some guys to have an opinion about why not to have a V/AT when they've never owned one.

When I had my V the biggest time savers were the reels and the huge tanks. I could go all day on one tank of clean water and never dump or pump out until end of day.

 

[Guest]

Dobs is a lost cause. I had 2 Butlers. I can definitely get the job done quicker with the AT and have it drier than with a Butler. Sorry Dobs but until you see a real truckmount you will believe what you believe.

When you do eventually see one in real life you will see things differently. Everyone does. I don't mean at Mikefest I mean on real jobs not with 20 people playing around.

Dave

 

[Guest]

Dobs,

Now that you have a Super Butler 2.5, how much 2.5 inch hose can you put on the reel? 50 feet?

With my AT I don't have to compromise hose capacity. If you have a truckmount in a van you have almost no 2.5 inch hose capacity. Not acceptable to me.

Dave

 

[The Preacher]

i can and do go 200-250ft with my Predator with a 36 blower and my dry times and heat are not a concern!

if i had the cash i'd buy an AT, that bad boy would be a sweet machine to own and clean with!!!

 

[ronald pantelas]

Steve Dobson, I love your posts. Having run both Butler and Vortex. Both machines are some of the best out there. Neither one is my favorite. The weaknesses are there on both of these mounts. When we must spend this kind of money to get these machines. It is important to know that they will make us look good to the customer. In America we can spend our money anywhere we want. I like Butler, I like Vortex, But its all about the person who is doing the work. To me these are some of the Cadilacs of this industry. But for different reasons. Ronnie P.

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Man Dob's can post theory like no other !!

 

[adamh]

Jim
If you are not an established company pulling in at least $10k a month you should not have a big truck/big payment

What I meant to say is I would hate to see somebody buy a big truck and think it will completely increase there business 1000% and not be able to make the payment. You are correct the better the tools the easier it is to make money.

 

[Bill]

I have the Bane Duo Mount and an 05 Butler, big blower.....I can clean just well with the Bane....but life is soooo much easier with the Butler.....14 inch wand with GG makes a huge difference. We dual wanded a Church the other day with the Butler....took 4 hours....same Church with the Bane 5 to six hours.....hardly broke a sweat with the Butler.

Time is money when you have employees....and maybe they don't wand as well as I do. Therefore I like to stack the cards in my favor with more heat and vac.

Bill in central Florida

 

[Mikey P]

Instead of "Try the Big Truck" or World's Most Powerful Cleaning Machine" V ought to use " Until you've tried it, you'll NEVER know" as their slogan.


Applies to the cleaner AND the Home Owner actually.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Meat, do you have all the elec. reels?
200 gal of on board water?

No I don't Greenie

"Those two items alone can save quite a bit of time on small jobs"

I can dig it. Have no doubts about that.
Especially for a one man crew.
The time studies I've done average in the 2 to 3 minute range to hook up water.
6 to 8 small jobs or empties a day can add up with one man crew.
2 man crew works out a little different


Don't know that the electric reel saves any time.
Indeed, I know we reel them up faster than electrics reel them up.
Electric reels are labor saving devices, not time saving.
If i worked along, I'd have one.

I was curious what else attributed to Dave and Jim's ability to do so many more jobs a day.
The only thing a V/AT has over any other set up with large tanks is a bigger blower.
(given that there a plethora of high heat high flow TMs on the market)

I can accept that increased vac can aid in efficiency.

200ft hose runs???
We carry 225ft of 2" hose on the reel.
I can count on one hand the times we've used that much in the last couple years.
75ft reaches 65% of our jobs
100ft reaches 90%
125 to 150ft reaches 95%


..L.T.A.

 

[Guest]

One thing I always wanted to ask the guys with V/AT's, do you guys need CDLs or stop at weigh stations?
Just curious....
Jerry

 

[Guest]

Larry,

There is no way you can keep up with mt AT reels in the real world.

Jerry,

No weigh stations and no CDL in Illinois.

Dave