How would you pay me?

[Scott Rogers]

If you're doing the phones, marketing, and the majority of the background work for the company it would seem more ideal for you to be put in a permanent management position, if you're needed out in the field you go. But your main focus would be operations, customer service, sales. Leave the cleaning to the guy(s) that aren't interested in the background work, that will go out and give a quality clean, and will do it right the first time. You could sell a lot more if you weren't on the truck everyday.

I would agree with this is it was a bigger operation, but this is a 100k operation 1 guy can/needs too handle it all and the cleaning. 100k isnt very much especially when paying over head, 2 employees etc. @100k the operation is over loaded with cost! Grow or cut back!!

 

[Goomer]

Playing hardball will just get them further up his ass than they already are. The one who has the money makes the rules

Playing hardball doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it, but showing up with some balls to negotiate is a good thing. I think now is the time to show these guys he has a spine. I respect someone more when they are a good challenge, and they should appreciate this in an employee. I might not normally take this position, but based on the way he is describing it, I get the feeling they are trying to take advantage of him, and that would piss me off.

Yes, the one with the money makes the rules, and this is the best reason to desire to be the one with the money, and I dont mean 13.00 an hour.

 

[joe harper]

So if you are grossing 100k a year and making around 30k he is already paying you 30% So if you go on straight commission of 30% it should benefit both you and the company as it gives you a good incentive to make the gross sales grow as quickly as possible.

And at 100k a year you dont need a full time tech. Dump the tech and do all the cleaning yourself or get the sales upto 150k+ and split your commission 20% you 10% tech.

I agree with every POINT...that Scott has made in both post...!!!!

I wouldn't change a word..."SPOT ON".... !gotcha!

 

[B&BGaryC]

The boss is professionally saying put up or shut up.

Yes he is, but he hasn't f-ing heard a word I said. 75% of the jobs I have been doing for the last couple of months have been trade out. I have been working deals with every advertising agency in town. We have $10,000 in advertising credit to blast the market with when we get our next van. He approved it, but I have been trying to explain to him that this is the reason why he doesn't have many checks from me on his desk right now. The company is in a position to do this right now, that's why I chose now to do it. I spend a total of 6 minutes talking to him a week if I am lucky and he hasn't listened long enough to understand we are making money, we are just saving it up in advertising credit so we can have a kick-ass summer and fall.

 

[B&BGaryC]

WTH do you mean? Do I openly discuss my distaste for change in the way I am paid? No. Am I a little ticked off that they are trying to get out of paying me in the winter?

my point IS.......
maybe these negative feelings about yor job situation are more transparent than you realize...???
if I can get you worked up lik this...im wondering how you do in front of the BOSS! !gotcha!


jus sayin' !

I'm getting worked up because you are a complete NINNY and you are missing the point.

 

[B&BGaryC]

If they pay me a lower percentage to sell a job than to sell and perform a job I will ultimately take all the sweet jobs and burn the hourly tech until he finds another place to work and then we are left with no competent tech to run the other truck

Less to sell AND do the work than just doing the work? This makes no sense. If this deal was even offered I'd start working on that new plan, because it would be obvious that they either think you're stupid or they want you to quit.

No, they want to pay me 25% to clean something, and 10% to sell something. That gives me incentive to clean everything myself and throw the crappy jobs to the hourly tech. Doing so will result in him quitting.

 

[bob vawter]

wouldn't it be interesting to HEAR the OTHER side of this story...?

 

[B&BGaryC]

If you're doing the phones, marketing, and the majority of the background work for the company it would seem more ideal for you to be put in a permanent management position, if you're needed out in the field you go. But your main focus would be operations, customer service, sales. Leave the cleaning to the guy(s) that aren't interested in the background work, that will go out and give a quality clean, and will do it right the first time. You could sell a lot more if you weren't on the truck everyday.

I would agree with this is it was a bigger operation, but this is a 100k operation 1 guy can/needs too handle it all and the cleaning. 100k isnt very much especially when paying over head, 2 employees etc. @100k the operation is over loaded with cost! Grow or cut back!!

Yes, my division is overloaded with cost. He saw me getting too busy in the summer and was unhappy about me working 60 hours a week. He figured it was time to hire somebody. We got somebody hired and trained them through the fall and winter. He understood the high cost through the winter as being a training cost, we turned this tech into a Ninja of a cleaner that can handle just about anything. We rocked through the summer and got more money than last summer and didn't have to put anybody 20 hours into overtime, thus reaching the goal. However, we ran a two man crew all year and never really split me off to sell. Every time I am in the office working on the computer doing website work or graphic design or when I just grab another vehicle and split off to run some bids or cold call I get this look from the owner like he wants to stab me. Like I'm stealing from or something because I'm not at the other end of a carpet cleaning machine. If I'm not on a machine I frequently get asked if I have any f-ing thing to do or am I just wasting time? I sneak in on the weekends to do my paperwork and invoicing and update the website from home. The only time I can do office work is if he is busy doing something and not working on bids in the office. It just kills him to see me idle, even if I'm doing something productive. I guess it's a real bitch move to hide from my boss but it's easier. I really should have had my tech doing the lion's share of the carpet cleaning while I was out gathering accounts for the winter, but it made my boss mad, and when I only get 2 minutes to talk to him on Monday, and one minute each day after that, it's a lot easier to explain myself if I'm worn out from cleaning carpets than worn out from putting together advertising.

 

[bob vawter]

yes...i understand!

 

[B&BGaryC]

wouldn't it be interesting to HEAR the OTHER side of this story...?

Here is your other side of the story:
I hired this guy who thought he was some hotshot and he won't sell a damn thing and I really don't think he cares about the bottom line or has any business sense because he is always asking me for money for stupid ideas and I buy him advertising all the time, they just aren't having any sales for ads that run during "That 70's Show" right now. I buy him every single piece of equipment that he wants and he acts like I don't do anything for him. He acts like it's my fault and says I don't give him what he needs to build the business. If I let him do everything he wanted he would run me broke inside of a month.



If that's not his side of the story it's close.

 

[Royal Man]

I wonder if at 100K if 2 techs are even needed or affordable for the business?

The change is likely because they are just treading water at best.

 

[bob vawter]

i understand!

 

[Ken Snow]

Tv for a 100k business is not smart advertising andd the only tv that should be done is early morning network news. I don;t know your market but 100-150k is needed just as the advertising budget for tv in a major metropolitan area.

A 2 person crew in my opinion isn't hitting stride until they are producing north of 200k, anything less than that should be 1 person with occassional help. At 250k and up it is a good performing crew, at 300k and up it is a top performer.

 

[Scott Rogers]

[quote="Scott Rogers":11ic08gx]

If you're doing the phones, marketing, and the majority of the background work for the company it would seem more ideal for you to be put in a permanent management position, if you're needed out in the field you go. But your main focus would be operations, customer service, sales. Leave the cleaning to the guy(s) that aren't interested in the background work, that will go out and give a quality clean, and will do it right the first time. You could sell a lot more if you weren't on the truck everyday.

I would agree with this is it was a bigger operation, but this is a 100k operation 1 guy can/needs too handle it all and the cleaning. 100k isnt very much especially when paying over head, 2 employees etc. @100k the operation is over loaded with cost! Grow or cut back!!

Yes, my division is overloaded with cost. He saw me getting too busy in the summer and was unhappy about me working 60 hours a week. He figured it was time to hire somebody. We got somebody hired and trained them through the fall and winter. He understood the high cost through the winter as being a training cost, we turned this tech into a Ninja of a cleaner that can handle just about anything. We rocked through the summer and got more money than last summer and didn't have to put anybody 20 hours into overtime, thus reaching the goal. However, we ran a two man crew all year and never really split me off to sell. Every time I am in the office working on the computer doing website work or graphic design or when I just grab another vehicle and split off to run some bids or cold call I get this look from the owner like he wants to stab me. Like I'm stealing from or something because I'm not at the other end of a carpet cleaning machine. If I'm not on a machine I frequently get asked if I have any f-ing thing to do or am I just wasting time? I sneak in on the weekends to do my paperwork and invoicing and update the website from home. The only time I can do office work is if he is busy doing something and not working on bids in the office. It just kills him to see me idle, even if I'm doing something productive. I guess it's a real bitch move to hide from my boss but it's easier. I really should have had my tech doing the lion's share of the carpet cleaning while I was out gathering accounts for the winter, but it made my boss mad, and when I only get 2 minutes to talk to him on Monday, and one minute each day after that, it's a lot easier to explain myself if I'm worn out from cleaning carpets than worn out from putting together advertising.[/quote:11ic08gx]

Economics dont lie, even though growing pains are a bitch, the division is not generating enough revenue to support overhead, 2 employees and a reasonable profit for the owner. Your busy season should be starting soon there, but if you dont see the possibility of increasing production atleast 50% immediately then the tech should be laid off. If you were doing 60 hours plus a week for 100k then you need to learn to be more efficient, more stream lined, and more direct in your duties. 100K is very doable for 1 guy in a 40 hour week.

 

[B&BGaryC]

The company isn't treading water when we are cashing six figure checks for disaster restoration. I'm not being inefficient, we take in more than half of our cleaning revenue in 3 months.

I remember why I quit looking for answers here. You guys are total jackasses. You never try to understand the whole story you just take one part and run with it.

Yes. God yes the carpet division costs more than it should. However I also bring in a ton of water damage. Whenever we have a storm I don't get any sleep because all of my residential customers are calling my cell phone to get their basements extracted. It is no secret that we only turn a profit carpet cleaning in the summer, we break even spring and fall and go into the red in the coldest part of the winter. With snow covering the ground 5 months out of the year it can be difficult to make a profit, but I hope to stay out of the red in the winter.
thought to be continued. I am on the phone with a customer now.

 

[bob vawter]

nothing personal here and please don take offense Gary...
but i would have fired yor azz at.....

can we talk!

 

[Burtz]

hey bob just put it out on the table for him

will you take payments on a steem genie with used parts

 

[bob vawter]

Ohh man...you should SEE my next buil.....errrrrrrrrrrrr nevermind!

 

[Burtz]

come on bob make the kid a deal that's what you want right

ask him if he has an old church van

 

[ACE]

2 full time employees, employment taxes, 2 truck mounts and other equipment, advertising, fuel, insurance, repairs, chemicals and supplies adds up to very little profit if you are going to gross around $150K. I bet you boss is just now starting to break even on this little venture. Owner ops with a young business are lucky to net 30%.

You want more money?

Than make you boss some money!

 

[B&BGaryC]

Anyway, yes, the division is slow for the amount of labor we have. The other tech is not full time. That is his choice. His lady works too, and he has a kid. If we are slow he takes a couple of days off so he can spend it with his boy. That helps, but laying him off isn't the answer. He was hired too early and for the wrong reasons but he is perfect. Enough so that I am certain he can replace me easily and without interruption. With the acquisition of the other cleaning company we should be at 150k easily. Things are getting ready to break open. A lot of positive buzz about us, and every one of our customers always says they have heard a lot of good about us. I know we are about to get our break soon, and I have been trying to build the business as much as I can without rocking the boat. I am going to be joining the chamber of commerce soon, and getting our tech in a BNI group because my BNI group has worked out well.

There are two solutions, grow, or have me step down. Maybe I just need to give up but don't you punks call me lazy or innefficient because I poured my life into this company and did the best I could with what I was given. I am held accountable for how this turned out but I have not been allowed to make all the decisions. I just have to deal with the consequences. One decision being having 12 restoration guys play round Robin with the main line being forwarded into their cell phone and answering in the field. "Carpet cleaning? (Buzz saw and hammers in the background ) hang up and call this dude's number, I don't do the cleaning."

I lose 50% of my calls. I have tracked it. I lose 50% of the jobs before I talk to them. That's not my choice. Its not my choice to advertise on the WB because they are having a sale. Its not my choice to not market to our customer base. Its not m choice to stop every single post card campaign I have half way through. However, that being said its his choices that built his company from his garage to a company that does a few million a year, and its me who took his carpet division from 15k to a hundred k while never returning an impressive profit.

 

[ACE]

30% is the best you can hope for as a lead tech.

Why not stick with it and see if you can't gross 150k+ a truck or 250k with a two man crew.

At the curent rate of growith you should be able to make 45K in another year or two.

 

[Royal Man]

Since you do it all and the division is low performing (As to profit) You could just buy it from him.

For says 2K a month until term. If you skip a couple of payments it reverts back to the original owner.

I have seen a few cleaning companies sold this way.

(As something un-related since you do the advertising. Your places listing needs some work and with a little work you could have the local listing that draws the most clients for no money. )

Then you might see that with 2 trucks and 2 crews 100K (the other 60K is not guaranteed unless the guy bought out had longterm cleaning contracts) doesn't go very far or you will kick ass.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Advertising "credit" is near worthless.

 

[ACE]

Since you do it all and the division is low performing (As to profit) You could just buy it from him.

For says 2K a month until term. If you skip a couple of payments it reverts back to the original owner.

I have seen a few cleaning companies sold this way.

(As something un-related since you do the advertising. Your places listing needs some work and with a little work you could have the local listing that draws the most clients for no money. )

Then you might see that with 2 trucks and 2 crews 100K (the other 60K is not guaranteed unless the guy bought out had longterm cleaning contracts) doesn't go very far or you will kick ass.

LOL He want's more money, not less.

 

[B&BGaryC]

You want more money?

Than make you boss some money!

I'm sorry if I led you to believe this was about me wanting a raise. If I was going to talk money I would like $40,000 a year. 7 months ago the boss man said I was due for a review and a raise. He never brought it up again and I never asked. Why? Because I didn't have numbers to support my raise. If he wants to give me one because he's having a good day and he likes me then I wont turn it down, but I have never asked him for a raise because I have never been happy with my numbers. That hasn't stopped him from giving me over $4 an hour in raises over the past 4 years. Now he brings up that he wants me to go on commission and this commission will include a raise to make me more money, and he will give me a budget that I have complete control over to do with it what I want. Sounds good but I didn't ask for a raise. And I don't think it will be a raise because I live paycheck to paycheck and I am not in a position to save for a bad winter. It sounds to me like these are my walking papers and all I want is another year of the same pay to build the business because I think this is the year that I will finally come out on top. This will be the last bad winter. But then again, I say that every spring...

 

[B&BGaryC]

(As something un-related since you do the advertising. Your places listing needs some work and with a little work you could have the local listing that draws the most clients for no money. )

.

I will take all the free advice you have about Google places listing optimization. On average it takes about 6 months for me to get a postcard, and we have 3 listings. Whatever I need to do I need to do it all at once because no matter how I beg him to look for and give me the Google postcards he throws them out with the junk mail. There is one listing I am trying to delete (his home address) that I have sent 15 postcards to over the past year and a half and haven't gotten one of them. Anyway, when I get a postcard I am just going to have to fix it for good, so give me all the google-fu you know and I will ninja my listing.

 

[joe harper]

Gary,

You seem almost BurNt-OuT...already..?

Relax...you are OVERTHINKING this deal...!

You are using words like..DIVISION... :shock: We are talking about a 1 truck
operation that is operating at 50% capacity..

The AQUISITION of another company... :idea: This company is only expected to
generate 50K gross... :?: You should be doing that...in add on services in the
original company..!!!!

If you are already making 30%...? Just "KEEP THAT WAND MOVING ON THE FLOOR"
And STOP worrying about all of the BusInEss BS... :idea: If it has taken 4 years to
generate a GROSS of 100K.. :roll: You might want to hire a real marketing consultant.!

It makes GOOD discussion on a BB... 8) BUT it makes NO sense in the REAL world... !gotcha!

You are trying to JUSTIFY your VALUE to the members of this board...! And they don't GAS.!

Listen to your friend...Hoodie... !gotcha! He can relate to your dElImA...He has LEARNED
THE HARD WAY..... :idea: "If you cannot figure out what you should be PAID..?" Tell the owner...to make HIS offer.. :idea: "AND BE PREPARED TO WALK"

 

[John Olson]

Gary your boss is giving you the opportunity to write your own check. I would counter with 30 & 20 and then go work your ass off. If he doesn't like then offer 12 per hour +30% on upsells. If he doesn't like that walk and go do it yourself.

 

[B&BGaryC]

You are using words like..DIVISION... :shock: We are talking about a 1 truck
operation that is operating at 50% capacity..

The AQUISITION of another company... :idea: This company is only expected to
generate 50K gross... :?: You should be doing that...in add on services in the
original company..!!!!

If you are already making 30%...? Just "KEEP THAT WAND MOVING ON THE FLOOR"
And STOP worrying about all of the BusInEss BS... :idea: If it has taken 4 years to
generate a GROSS of 100K.. :roll: You might want to hire a real marketing consultant"

I call it a division because it is completely separate. As far as marketing goes, we don't do it, and when we do, its whatever package some a-hole sold my boss because it only costs x number of dollars per spot.

Running at 50% capacity. It would sure be nice to get the other half of my phone calls wouldn't it. And as far as the other company, we paid $1500 over the fair used value of the equipment, and it was all stuff we will use when the time ones that we need two vans.