I think I found the cause of all my solution hoses failing

[BIG WOOD]

Keep in mind, I went through all these hoses in a very short period
Goodyear
Continental
Raptor
Eaglewash
Aerotech flexion
hydrodforce


And I found that using Alkaline rinse through the hoses was the cause of the rubber deteriorating inside the hose. I stopped using alkaline rinse and my current hoses on both my machines, (Goodyear, eagle wash ,and raptor) are still holding up strong.

One of my friends have been doing the same thing and his problem stopped as well

The Alkaline rinses that I used during that period of hose failures was
Harvard Fury
Harvard Extreme
Prochem Dry Slurry

Keep in mind, I use top heat on my machines most of the time. And a few of you guys told me that the high heat was the cause. My temp is the same, and the hoses aren't affected.

 

[Mikey P]

Now imagine what those was doing to your customers carpets...

I think you should send out an email campaign apologizing to them all and offering to come out and do a free acidic neutralizing rinse.


You do know that the Pembertons have been the number one advocates for using acidic rinses and nearly all times for decades, Right?



They could probably give you some trailer parking advice too.

 

[hogjowl]

Alkaline rinses are so 1980

 

[BIG WOOD]

Now imagine what thosse was doing to your customers carpets...

I think you should send out an email campaign apologizing to them all and offering to come out and do a free acidic neutralizing rinse.


You do know that the Pembertons have been the number one advocates for using acidic rinses and nearly all times for decades, Right?



They could probably give you some trailer parking advice too.

Or maybe you being a leader in this industry could start a petition telling all the crooked soap companies to stop selling crap like that

Any company that makes alkaline rinse is a crooked company

 

[hogjowl]

Any company that makes alkaline rinse is a crooked company

Companies aren’t in business to dictate practices or enforce trends. They’re there to provide products or services that meet demand.

 

[Nomad74]

I haven't had a Baconator in over 2 months.

 

[Mikey P]

I haven't had a Baconator in over 2 months.

I bet your hose lining is happier too..

 

[Mikey P]

Or maybe you being a leader in this industry could start a petition telling all the crooked soap companies to stop selling crap like that

Any company that makes alkaline rinse is a crooked company

Alkaline rinses can be ok for grimy restaurant work.


Im not sure how you missed out on the Acid Rinse is best notice Matt

 

[hogjowl]

I’ve got a fairly good idea

 

[BIG WOOD]

Alkaline rinses can be ok for grimy restaurant work. Im not sure how you missed out on the Acid Rinse is best notice Matt

I was using both acid and alkaline rinses

It’s funny how you guys like to make assumptions.

Alkaline cleans carpet just fine. It’s the part where it damages our equipment that pisses me off.

Marty…just go away

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I haven't had a Baconator in over 2 months.

You’re trying to fit in that Corvette

 

[hogjowl]

It’s hard to ignore you

 

[Dolly Llama]

I haven't had a Baconator in over 2 months.

i haven't had any FF burger in a year (or more!)
Yesterday I had a Big Dave Double and a double cheese Jr

the jr was stale and not hot ..disapointed
The Big Dave Dbl was far more gooder, hot 'n tasty

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

It only took me 30 years to figure out why my tires are wearing out

 

[Ever-Fresh]

Now imagine what those was doing to your customers carpets...

I think you should send out an email campaign apologizing to them all and offering to come out and do a free acidic neutralizing rinse.


You do know that the Pembertons have been the number one advocates for using acidic rinses and nearly all times for decades, Right?



They could probably give you some trailer parking advice too.

"Now imagine what those was doing to your customers carpets..."

Getting them clean?

 

[Dolly Llama]

has something changed in the last decade that the reasoning for acid rinse on common W2W synthetic (that makes up 93.299% of a CC'ers diet) makes a difference in reality?

Someone please explain the reasons acid makes a difference vs alkaline?


..L.T.A.

 

[BIG WOOD]

has something changed in the last decade that the reasoning for acid rinse on common W2W synthetic (that makes up 93.299% of a CC'ers diet) makes a difference in reality?

Someone please explain the reasons acid makes a difference vs alkaline?


..L.T.A.

Acid helps neutralize the high ph treatment that's put on the carpet.

And when using the alkaline rinse As for cleaning, it's leaving the ph in the carpet higher, but I've never had a callback on crunchy carpet after it dried.

I think the rinse agents are made for people who use portable machines at 200psi to help break down the treatment in the carpet at the low pressure and flow and heat they're cleaning at. My pressure all the time is set at 600-650 (6-9.5flow) over 200F and I have no problem rinsing with just plain water. Very few callbacks and it's NEVER on leaving cleaning residue behind.

So when the rinse agents FK up our machines and tools... They aren't needed!

The SO CALLED "Chemists" that make up these chemicals need to take a break on what it does to the carpet and focus more on the effects it does to the machines.

One thing that BlueLine did good was make all the hardware in the chemical feed system stainless steel, and not brass. Something that Acid doesn't really affect since it eats up brass components that are in all the high dollar machines today. But when it breaks down the rubber inside the hose, it's not made for our industry

 

[Dolly Llama]

Acid helps neutralize the high ph treatment that's put on the carpet.

And when using the alkaline rinse As for cleaning, it's leaving the ph in the carpet higher

so? what is the practical reason ph has anything to do with anything?
It has nothing to do with resoil rates
So why does it matter?*

but I've never had a callback on crunchy carpet after it dried.

do you find applying protectant makes them "crunchy" ?
I have.
after first post vac though, the crunch is gone
Same on trashed/resto rags that need hammered with hot heavy nuke juice.
Post vac, all is well



*machine clean...I guess that would be a good reason for acid.
In particular if the chem feed ran thru HX'ers.
Never a need to descale?

still don't see, or have heard a reason that carpet PH makes any difference as a practical matter in normal synthetic com and res goods


..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

When nylon was king, acid rinses helped to prevent potential color loss over time, due to the effect of exposure to cleaning products that were highly buffered (as most all cleaning detergents are). There is some evidence, based on studies done in the laundry industry, that surfactant residues also are better removed when acids are incorporated in rinsing agents. I'm not aware of any studies done by our industry beyond some demonstrations and anecdotal "evidence" to be clear.

I'm not aware of any studies regarding any help that acid rinses would bring to polyester or olefin fibers.

One of the issues that highly buffered alkaline detergents may bring is the feeling of stiffness that has been discussed. This is especially noted in powdered detergents. Acid rinsing does eliminate or at least minimize this issue.

Lessening skin irritation to pets, children, and barefooted adults is usually considered to be of benefit.

It is also helpful to remember that when hot water extraction was in its infancy in the 70s, traffic lane cleaner application wasn't done at first. High pH (11-12) detergents were used in portable machines and early truck mounts. If the carpet was heavily soiled, a degreaser with a high solvent content and often an even higher pH was added to the "rinse" solution. Most of my demonstrations of truck mounts in the late 70s and early 80s was done without any prespray used, or even on my truck.

Not that I'm proud of that...........

As presprays were introduced and improved, the need for boosting cleaning detergents faded, and ultimately the use of them overall lessened.

Still, when cleaning a grossly filthy, grease laden carpet (an undesirable and profitless task in many cases anyway), alkaline agents in the injection solution can make a difference.

In the end, the key to minimizing or eliminating the need for an alkaline agent in extraction solution is even preconditioning, agitation, dwell time, and a willingness to re-apply preconditioner in areas that don't respond enough during the extraction process.

Or.....don't clean grossly soiled carpets and aim for better clients.

 

[FredC]

Alkaline cleans carpet just fine. It’s the part where it damages our equipment that pisses me off.

Remember when you were blaming Continental for this?

The only two things on your machine, if we take your assumption as true*, that would be damaged are essentially consumables to begin with...the chem pump diagram and your hoses. These are items you expect to replace.

The products you are bashing have a specific purpose and probably aren't needed for general cleaning. Even if they are the cause of your issues YOU are causing the increased wear by using them all the time. If they are needed all the time based on your average customer carpets conditions then the hoses should be expected to not last as long if this is the cause. No different than if all you did was clean restaurants with a kero burner on high all the time imo.






*Plenty of folks using no rinse at all have hose issues
We also don't know if the same conditions existed for your hoses that are currently holding up. Were the others exposed to more temperature extremes (longer winters/hotter summers)? Have they been through a summer yet?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Remember when you were blaming Continental for this?

The only two things on your machine, if we take your assumption as true*, that would be damaged are essentially consumables to begin with...the chem pump diagram and your hoses. These are items you expect to replace.

The products you are bashing have a specific purpose and probably aren't needed for general cleaning. Even if they are the cause of your issues YOU are causing the increased wear by using them all the time. If they are needed all the time based on your average customer carpets conditions then the hoses should be expected to not last as long if this is the cause. No different than if all you did was clean restaurants with a kero burner on high all the time imo.






*Plenty of folks using no rinse at all have hose issues
We also don't know if the same conditions existed for your hoses that are currently holding up. Were the others exposed to more temperature extremes (longer winters/hotter summers)? Have they been through a summer yet?

I remember bashing continental. And you're right, I was wrong on that false accusation of continental being less quality than the original Goodyear. Which is why I started this thread. Go ahead an pull up all the different hoses I tried over the years and look at my feedback on this different ones. It's crazy how fast I was replacing them.
-The aero tech flexion alone was 400ft of hose in under 300hrs

Fact Checking Fred, I went through hoses every 300hrs on average, which is odd. So now I'm not seeing that happen, and I'm currently using 3 different types of hoses on my machines, so it isn't the quality of the hose that's changed.

Do I have a specific chart to show you the data? No. But I do know the only thing I changed was not using those rinse agents. I do this every day, the same way, so connecting the dots isn't hard.

When's the last time you cleaned carpet anyway?

 

[FredC]

I remember bashing continental. And you're right, I was wrong on that false accusation of continental being less quality than the original Goodyear. Which is why I started this thread. Go ahead an pull up all the different hoses I tried over the years and look at my feedback on this different ones. It's crazy how fast I was replacing them.
-The aero tech flexion alone was 400ft of hose in under 300hrs

Fact Checking Fred, I went through hoses every 300hrs on average, which is odd. So now I'm not seeing that happen, and I'm currently using 3 different types of hoses on my machines, so it isn't the quality of the hose that's changed.

Do I have a specific chart to show you the data? No. But I do know the only thing I changed was not using those rinse agents. I do this every day, the same way, so connecting the dots isn't hard.

When's the last time you cleaned carpet anyway?

I cleaned some carpet a few weeks ago.

Why were you using an alkaline rinse if you don't need it? I said if we take your assumption as truth.


"running chemicals with solvents in them through my hoses may reduce the life expectancy of my hoses "

 

[BIG WOOD]

I cleaned some carpet a few weeks ago.

Why were you using an alkaline rinse if you don't need it? I said if we take your assumption as truth.


"running chemicals with solvents in them through my hoses may reduce the life expectancy of my hoses "

False assumptions again. I never said I used the alkaline rinse all the time. I just said I stopped using them. Which is why I feel the alkaline rinse has such a strong deterioration of the hose. If I used it all the time, the hoses would've failed even quicker.

Since you want it to seem like I'm in a courtroom, here's all the times I used an alkaline rinse:
-When cleaning heavy grease or neglected carpet. About 1 in every 4 jobs ESTIMATE

 

[hogjowl]

You’re operating off of assumptions too. We all do. If one of us posts his assumptions as fact is when we run the risk of a collective drop in board IQ.

 

[FredC]

False assumptions again. I never said I used the alkaline rinse all the time. I just said I stopped using them. Which is why I feel the alkaline rinse has such a strong deterioration of the hose. If I used it all the time, the hoses would've failed even quicker.

Since you want it to seem like I'm in a courtroom, here's all the times I used an alkaline rinse:
-When cleaning heavy grease or neglected carpet. About 1 in every 4 jobs ESTIMATE

So you would use it when you "needed" it? What are you doing now that you don't use an alkaline rinse to get that extra bit of clean? If they are coming out the same you with no extra heat, time, agitation, chems then you didn't need it in the first place right?

Again if if you "needed" it in that it provided better results on these types of jobs it is no different imo than cooking the hoses with kero heat to perform a greasy restaurant clean. You are trading some of the life expectancy of your hose to provide a better/quicker/easier result


Also why do you seem unique in only getting 3 months or less out of hoses?

 

[Kenny Hayes]

The Matt Wood Trials!

 

[FredC]

Since you want it to seem like I'm in a courtroom

seems appropriate with you frequently delivering verdicts on manufacturers and suppliers

"Any company that makes alkaline rinse is a crooked company"

 

[BIG WOOD]

seems appropriate with you frequently delivering verdicts on manufacturers and suppliers

"Any company that makes alkaline rinse is a crooked company"

They test these products way more than we do, and they should be aware of the effects it has on our equipment.

 

[The Great Oz]

Keep in mind, I went through all these hoses in a very short period
Goodyear
Continental
Raptor
Eaglewash
Aerotech flexion
hydrodforce

Never had an issue using alkaline rinses, and our Synflex hoses typically lasted the life of the truck (barring operator caused damage). Rubber/steel hoses didn't last long, but I found that most of the failures were due to improper fitting swages.

We had problems with a cleaning product that contained just a tiny amount of D-Limonene in the mix. We finally realized that every failed hose smelled like citrus inside.

Any of the products you run through your hoses have a solvent component?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Never had an issue using alkaline rinses, and our Synflex hoses typically lasted the life of the truck (barring operator caused damage). Rubber/steel hoses didn't last long, but I found that most of the failures were due to improper fitting swages.

We had problems with a cleaning product that contained just a tiny amount of D-Limonene in the mix. We finally realized that every failed hose smelled like citrus inside.

Any of the products you run through your hoses have a solvent component?

I mentioned the 3 products above, but I don't know if they had solvent ingredients in them.

I'm not sure if I've ever used synflex hoses. Can you post a link of which hose that is? I know if you didn't have any problems with all the machines you have, then your hoses should be on all our machines.