I think we should do some pre-spray comparisons

[Bob Foster]

1. Sample bottles chosen at random for use in testing and not disclosed before hand to distributor or manufacturer
2. Same carpet - same cleaner - same truck - same way
3. Using the manufacturer's suggested dilutions as it is stated on the container
4. PH test of prespray as applied
5. pH test of carpet afterward
6. Judged on what the carpet looks like after it is cleaned.


Restaurant carpet
berber
wool
level loop nylon
olefin

Any manufacturer who makes an excuse to say they won't put their material up shouldn't be here. Besides manufacturers might not have any control of that as the pre-spray will be bought serendipitously and will be tested whether they want it tested or not.

 

[Lora Olson]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Are you sure you want to do that? :roll:

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Damn right I do.

My concern is that the less secure manufactures will start off by saying that the comparison can't be done in an attempt to sabotage this idea. And if that does happen I think you will find a lot of people upset.

It can't think of anything that carpet cleaners are more curious about than pre-spray other than Mikey P's tax return.

Better is a very subjective word as can be evidenced by all the hype that is spoken here about good products and not-so-good products. By the way RTU cost should be a concern too as a solution that cleans well might not be the best but has a substantially lower RTU cost making it still a reasonably good choice for someone to use.

Providing the methodology for the comparison are reasonably fair I don't see why this can not be done.

 

[Lora Olson]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

This is John not Lora by the way....and because the Kool-Aid Drinkers will freak right out......Maybe you should do some testing first (and talk to Les) before putting the kool-aid out there like that. it wouldn't matter and would be a good thing for me and everyone else but with so many followers it could be determintal to someone's buisness.

 

[Jim Nazarian]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Hey John,

Can you please elaborate? What were your findings?

 

[The Preacher]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

how about we just drink, smoke and have a good time at MF6???

all this testing BS is a waste of good time!!!

PS BOb, yore not invited to MF6 in Tampa. too many of yore kanaduh brethren have came down and not left. please stay home!!!

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

John, I would welcome a fair comparison of pre-sprays. This might stop the unjustified remarks that have been said to discredit my superior products.


LES

 

[ronald pantelas]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

I think that is a great idea! But are there not to many variables? Dwell time needed per individual prespray. Compatable rinses from same manufacturer would have to be used. I don't know if people would accept the results. You would have to follow directions on their label of the chemical supplier for it to be fair. To each of us, we all have different needs when buying prespray. Some want it safe, some want it powerful, some need power cause they lack heat, some need nothing special at all, some want acid, some want alkaline, some want neutral, some don't want it to corrode their equipment, some want cheap, some need the best, some use degreaser from the auto parts store. But these results would be interesting to me for sure. I have never had a chance to look at a list such as this. Ron

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Ronald. Lets look about what's more right about this idea and not start putting some paranoid idea that this isn't practical to do.

Watch this thread - you are going to see all sorts of chicken shit remarks and excuses.

Time for some people to put their product where their mouth is.

 

[Doug D]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

any dates on the one in Tampa yet?? I know it will be at Jon Don right?

 

[Jimmy L]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

MY GAWD FOSTER THIS TEST WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!

 

[FB7777]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

poor Radar, Mikey put a thread quota on him to maintain his gLoBual ModullAtoR status.


he's gonna keep throwing up bricks in the hopes that one of his ideas finds the net


Ron brought up some valid points Bo,b don't be so dismissive

 

[Mikey P]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

**** mikefest.




Eckman, Tom Meyer and a few select others will be testing Cabernet and Zin at my cabin instead.



I'm fed up with you broke dicks.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Bob,

You fail to realize the monumental variable that differentiates the results of good presprays more than any other...

that being the nature of the soiling. I am amused at the variable testimonies of those who say they have found the ultimate prespray, not realizing that their "testing" is in a microcosm that rarely has much more than little applicability to anyone else.

Once you realize that any "test" will only be representative of your non-scientific narrow applicability of your soil media, you will see that it is much more of an undertaking than could possibly be found reasonable, even with our collective resources.


But hey, go for it. It will be certainly in line with your new found expressed philosophy that "this place is just a messageboard, don't take it so seriously".

 

[John Olson]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Les i'm not picking on your products just the opposite, trying to keep the kool-aid flowin'. When put up side by side the chance of an antidote is a very possibility and that would really suck now wouldn't it.

As for my testing all I can say not a single person came back to buy any of the products after trying it. Sorry Les that's the truth. And no I didn't influence any decision only thing they all had in common was none of them spend time on the boards.

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: I think next MikeFest there should be some pre-spray testing

Ronald my remark was too harsh and I didn't mean to sound like I was dismissing your constructive criticism but I don't want this idea to come off the rails.

I like Mike's idea of saying the hell with the test and just go to the cabin. The results of these comparisons will be extremely valuable and sought after information by our members.

I don't expect everyone to agree on how the testing is done. I also don't expect everyone to agree with the results. These comparisons should be done in a controlled environment and presented at some future point either on the board or at MF.

But already the sabotaging has started of my idea. I have been told (actually lectured to) my Shawn that this is all to complicated and I just don't understand. HORSESHIT. As I stated earlier their will be subversion attempted on this idea by those who can't stand the scrutiny.

Shawn I obviously hold the collective value of information that people have benefited from on this board in higher regard than you do. Your attempt to throw up an obstacle to these comparisons is just as pathetic as the distrbutor sales people that tell their customers to stay away from the bulletin boards because the information on them is misleading or inaccurate. That kind of talk pisses a lot of us off.

We aren't going to make it a big deal because it doesn't have to be.

Test the pre-sprays on the same carpet the same way as per manufactures suggested dilutions. No excuses. Different soiled carpet types tested by the same person on the same carpets with the same truck running the same temperature cleaned the same way. If your "system" requires a use of a rinse then fine use it but it is calculated into the RTU cost. No one is expecting a pre-spray to be used different than the label says.

 

[Ron Werner]

John, are those the same cleaners that didn't want 2.5" hose??

I've been using the O2 for almost 2 full years now. I don't have high heat, I do have lots of agitation. It works very well. What are those Utah cleaners doing??

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Bob,

I'm sorry you have to take so emotionally, Bob. You obviously have made up your mind without conducting any such tests. Moreover, you take practical considerations as a personal attack.

On the other hand, I have had the privilege of observing such comparative testing (unpublished) with the knowledge that it was done in a manner as to really come up with valid conclusions so as to improve product lines. The nature of soiling was a demonstrable impediment to creating universal conclusions as to the overall effectiveness of the products being compared. By no means am I saying it can't be done. Just that it would be a tremendous undertaking with the limited resources of time, and other resources that don't come without some agenda issues. There are practical considerations here. But if the goal is rather informal, and it is understood as such, then indeed a scaled study is a real possibility. Just make sure your results have such disclaimers. Heck you won't even acknowledge your own jaundiced eye in this matter. But it is evident when you get angry.

But above all, take your own advice here. You are losing too much supposed impartiality through an emotional response to practical considerations you don't want to hear. Try simply to disagree, then support your position.

Or, just do it your own way, and don't bother with others opinions unless they suit you.

 

[Bob Foster]

Shawn. Nothing emotional about it. Although I was a little upset that you were saying to people behind my back that I was deliberatly biasing results of the 08 portable testing in favor of Mytee. What's laughable about that is Mytee wasn't even tested as a portable that year and all who know me would say that I would never do such a thing.

The "emotional" label you are attempting to hang on me is nothing more than a very poor attempt at discrediting me to stop this whole idea. It won't work. So Shawn, what's your agenda here? I just think it is timely and valuable to do so some fairly straightforward comparisons and nothing more. Almost everyone here knows that I am a good friend of Les so as such I wouldn't be involved in the actual comparison process.

As for all the gobbledygook you are putting up about soil, what the hell does it matter if all are pre-sprays are tested on the same samples? I might buy that if you could show me where pre-spray products expressly disclaim their efficacy on certain types of soils.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I have no no idea if MF 08 testing was being deliberately biased. That no results were released makes a moot point. You have chosen to make it an issue.

I do however take issue (at the time) at what I saw as improper protocol for comparison, when a unit is used in an improper manner so as to create a "handicapping". I think any piece of equipment should be tested as it is comes. I made that abundantly clear.

But thank you. I appreciate your candor today to explain your pent up antagonism.

As such, I don't think you are ready to understand anything you preconceive as "gobbledygook". When you are ready to entertain the idea that single "designer soils" have monumental drawbacks of broad applicability, re-read my post.

If you run parallel testing with several soil compositions, the test accuracy is increased. That is my point. As the accuracy is increased, the task becomes radically more difficult to handle for an event such as this.

 

[Bob Foster]

Now while Shawn is looking up some big works on Google maybe we can get some more ideas on how to do these tests.

I was thinking that if we use some long hall way carpets torn out from a house having their carpets replaced. They might have some good even soiling on them enough for about 10 pre-sprays using about a 6 foot wide test piece each.

 

[Bob Foster]

Rather than risk my good intentions for testing pre-sprays being thwarted by degrading this tread into being about me I am going to bow out of this discussion and hopefully some of the rest of you will take up the worthwhile cause.

There was no personal gain in starting this idea and I appreciate the ideas some of you have put up. All I wanted to do was to come up with a useful comparison of pre-sprays using practical side by side testing.

 

[ACE]

It not as simple as the judging the most powerful pre-spray. What about fiber type, soil type, soil level, stain resistant safety, health ratings and cost. These are all things I take into account, so I end up always having 3-4 pre-sprays on the truck plus boosters. I can understand only using one product that you judge to be the best all round pre-spray if you have a large operation and need to keep it simple for your techs, but owner ops should be using the best product for each job and set themselves apart from the cookie cutter franchise mentality.

 

[Mikey P]

IF there is another MF you can be damn sure no testing of any sort related to carpet cleaning will be taking place.

 

[Blue Monarch]

'How bout some beer testing at the next MF? Unmarked glasses.

 

[John Olson]

John, are those the same cleaners that didn't want 2.5" hose??

I've been using the O2 for almost 2 full years now. I don't have high heat, I do have lots of agitation. It works very well. What are those Utah cleaners doing??

No Ron these guys actually run 2.5" Hose. One with a Butler one with an Aerotech one with a 650 and one with a Steam Way and one with an old 800A. One is a Bridgepoint Chem guy one uses Pro's Choice one Uses Prochem one Uses Steam Way and One uses a combination of all of them.

Now I am not saying the Kool-Aid doesn't work. Hell mothers spit cleans better then anything...but i'm not gonna use it.

But seriously if it would have sold I would have carried it. It is a BB viral chem. It does ok for some and your supporting somone you like and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.I would just hate to have someone elses mouth write a check Les can't cash.

Long Story Short if yoru happy with whatever your using then USE IT. If your un-happy keep trying stuff util YOU find what works for you and someone you like carries it. That is ALL

and just to be clear AGAIN. I am not Picking on Les or his Kool-Aid I like Les, Nothing personal. I sell very little Juice to you guys and thats ok I'm here for the Drama...

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I agree with you Bob!

 

[John Olson]

IF there is another MF you can be damn sure no testing of any sort related to carpet cleaning will be taking place.

SWEET! Lets get back to hanging out. I say everyone that attends must have a Vac Tat or be prepared to get one when they show up
I'll even pay for the first 3 tats

 

[Guest]

John, are those the same cleaners that didn't want 2.5" hose??

I've been using the O2 for almost 2 full years now. I don't have high heat, I do have lots of agitation. It works very well. What are those Utah cleaners doing??

Dont you have a little giant #4? Even a 3 can give you high heat "if" you want it.
PS-high heat is any where from 220-240 atw.anything beyond is overkill

 

[Ron Werner]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Long Story Short if yoru happy with whatever your using then USE IT. If your un-happy keep trying stuff util YOU find what works for you and someone you like carries it. That is ALL:

I can appreciate that. Zep Prep was something I tried years ago, never liked it, didn't clean well. Tried it again about 4 yrs later. Worked great and I've had it on board ever since with decreasing usage as its a butyl product.

I went from Prep, to Powdered Power, to O2. Just finsihed cleaning my upstairs neighbour's carpets with Hot Sauce and O2 with the O2 Rinse, carpet came up great. It needs some dwell time which works for me, other guys are speedsters and need something to work NOW!