Interview with Joe Dobbins 5-2-07

Mikey P

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OK here we go!



Joe, thanks for asking to take a turn here.
After Werner's session I have to say it takes guts.
Granted you are no where near the controversial figure Mr Braun is, but non the less.
I want to remind every one participating tonight to respect our guest. Feel free to disagree with him but do so with the same courtesy you would with one of your clients.

Here are the pre-asked questions and answers.
Take your time and read through them all and then we'll start with the live questions.





You are a carpet cleaner, a disaster restoration contractor, a supplier, and a trainer. If you could only do one, which would it be, and why?

Trainer. My dream and goal since 7th grade was to be a school teacher. Being a trainer enables me to teach as well as to be an active participant through teaching in the carpet cleaning and the disaster restoration business through the different courses that I teach.

Additionally, when not teaching, it also allows me time to be an active participant through on-site performance in cleaning and disaster restoration business. As a supplier, I also am able to meet others that wish to better their business and help them through providing quality products and training them in how to use them through on-going relationships with them as a customer. All of the divisions are very inter-related.

Having family working in business with you has quite a few challenges. How do you make that work for you?

It is not a problem since all do their job well and complement each other.

My daughter, Alyson, oversees the cleaning division as well as marketing division through developing mailings and monthly implementation of these mailings / programs, sales leader for the distribution staff and bookkeeping for the disaster restoration business.

My wife, Janet, is the financial officer of the company spending all her time in A/R and A/P. She also is the new Examinations Chair for the IICRC overseeing the administrative side of the 24 exams, not the technical side, as a volunteer position that will take her an average of 10 hours per week, sometimes more.

My son-in-law Scott, as Vice-President, oversees the disaster restoration business (fire and water mitigation crews, construction crews, and administrative billing of insurance claims) as well as the two insurance industry-marketing people within our business. He is also the Technical Advisory Chair for the IICRC over the Water Damage Restoration Technician (WRT) course and Cleaning Division Chair of the Certification Council overseeing seven different cleaning related courses. Therefore, he reports to me in two segments of his daily work within the IICRC as well as the business. He is very busy in his work and we see eye-to-eye on most everything we do. Further, he was raised to do a great job with good work ethics while supporting your company and your employer. Therefore, I guess it makes itself work as we all have a job to do in making the business successful.

(On a side note, Scott’s brother is project manager of the restoration business with a fantastic work ethic).

Several years ago, Lee Pemberton proposed that certification be made available on line. Why did the IICRC not approve and institute that concept?

I find NO fault with anything that Lee has ever presented with the deepest respect ever for him and his ideas. Presently CECs are available on-line for a good many courses. Whereas there is no rule presently that states it cannot be a viable means in some cases for training, it is my opinion, as others, that the foundation of teaching is the communication between a qualified, trained, experienced and caring educator. This is tracked back to preschool for our children.

Without these characteristics, the learning through training of the young person would be greatly compromised. I try to view all my students, while respecting them as adults, as a young student in an attempt to learn a subject matter as well as a trade. These characteristics must be also a beacon in their learning experiences.

If we reduce the qualifications of teaching to video or DVD, our universities could also be reduced to video sites. The direct ability of the teacher to communicate the information and answer questions is the PRIMARY issue of this learning experience technique. Where there is no interaction, learning is reduced to either visual or printed communication. The “art of teachingâ€ÂÂ
 

Jim Pemberton

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Welcome Joe!

As someone who has "done it all", would you recommend that carpet cleaners become restorers today?
 

joedobbins

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Welcome Joe!

As someone who has "done it all", would you recommend that carpet cleaners become restorers today?
_________________
Jim Pemberton
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Jim,
I would say that the restoration business definitely has a lot of opportunities for people today. However, one should know that as you and I have been around since....well....forever, this is not the same business as it was 20-25 years ago. What used to be built upon relationships is not the same today due to national programs, differences in adjusting, etc. However, with that said, this is still a very rewarding business for people that want to earn a good living, earn a respectful living and help people in time of need at the same time. In a nutshell, I love the fire / water restoration business.
 

joedobbins

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Jim,
However, with that said, the carpet cleaners should also understand that this is a place to lose your shirt today, if you are not a good business person with a good line of credit or well capitalized. Fire restoration is very labor intensive and to do water restoration business justice, it requires a good bit of capitalization. Therefore, marketing is paramount.

Joe
 

joedobbins

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Mikey P said:
Basic question here ..

Joe,

What effect have these bulletin boards have on the industry in your opinion?

Mike,
These bulletin boards have a great influence on this industry and have a definite high place. We must remember that only 10% of this industry will ever attend any type of formal training. Further, it is very accessible. You have done a tremendous job with your board here, and should be commended.

However, we must also understand as we frequent the boards here that there are some that unfortunately type their well-intended opinions as gospel and one on the other end may not know if they are a novice or a seasoned professional. But, I commend the bulletin boards as a way to get very quick answers from some good people and to do it very inexpensively.

This industry needs a forum such as this to go to for answers on a variety of items. Yet, we must all understand that whereas we sit on our grandparents porch and get great lessons on life, that does not replace the need for school and church. They must all work in concert for the best educational training.
 

Jim Pemberton

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Joe, do you truly believe that "only 10% of this industry will ever attend any type of formal training"?
 

joedobbins

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Mikey P said:
Joe

Is your company 100% SOA compliant?

Mike,
Yes we are SOA complaint with both our equipment, our cleaning agents, as well as our cleaning "systems". However, we were using agents and equipment that were prior to the new testing protocols were set in place. If what we use was not, I would be the first person asking my manufacturer WHY they are not stepping up to do what it takes to ensure that their equipment is NOT. And, if they are we need to let all know. But, if not, we would want to know and should deserve the right to know what is lacking per the protocol testing.

SOA complaint does not make a cleaner, only helps to ensure that the best are using equipment and cleaning agents that are and have been tested by an independent 3rd party testing body for our industry in fair testing protocols.

We are proud of the fact that our systems won the highest level and had no idea where it would end, but felt good when it did.
 

Mikey P

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We must remember that only 10% of this industry will ever attend any type of formal training.
How can we improve that number Joe?
I would have to imagine that the heads of the IICRC would like to get more cleaners in the class room. Besides advertising through suppliers, are there any other venues you/they have taken to promote schooling?

What does the BOD of the IICRC think of the boards?
I ould think if they had more representatives like your self promoting further education here it could only help.
 

joedobbins

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Jim Pemberton said:
Joe, do you truly believe that "only 10% of this industry will ever attend any type of formal training"?

Jim,
As I review the number of cleaners, as well as the number of cleaning / restoration companies, and then compare it to the amount of people in certification classes (and as we know, unfortunately less attend well needed marketing and management classes), I think this is a fair number. Any scientific study to this number....no. It is sad that it is that low, but I think this probably is a high number to the reality of the figures.
 
G

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I think I read that this independent 3rd party tester was also a CRI member . If so , how exactly is this considered independent ?

James
 

Larry Cobb

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Hi Joe;

I appreciate your appearance on the BB tonight.

In your initial response, you asked why manufacturers would be reluctant to pay for SOA testing on all the pieces of equipment and chemicals used for cleaning and spotting.

I can answer that question from my perspective.

Cost vs. Benefit

As a manufactuer and supplier, I am constantly weighing costs of new certifications versus the benefit to everybody who must ultimately pay THAT COST.

Right now there are several certifications being promoted:

1. CRI SOA

2. Green Seal GS-37

3. EPA's Design for the Environment (DFE)

4. Canada's Equivalent to Green Seal

If a manufacturer were to get all of these certifications, the total cost would be substantial to ALL CLEANERS.

I have a question for you to answer.
How much would the customers in your supply business pay "per gallon" to have 1 thru 4 above on a typical carpet prespray chemical ?

Larry Cobb
 

John Watson

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Hi Joe,

With all nay saying about the IICRC Which I know is 80% or more by uninformed people whom know nothing about the IICRC and its workings except what they hear and read on these board formats. I have seen you time after time reply to the same questions over and over.

My question is this: Why is there no area on the IICRC site accessible to all cleaners whom have questions and also a FAQ section with an index??
or is there and I just don't know about it.

I think you would have less gray in your hair.

I am still proud that I am a Master Cleaner, Kenway told me I was first one,

I was also 1 of the first 3 to have all the certifications offered back in 89 and have added most of the one added since.

Thank you for visiting Mikey's
 

joedobbins

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Mikey P said:
We must remember that only 10% of this industry will ever attend any type of formal training.
How can we improve that number Joe?
I would have to imagine that the heads of the IICRC would like to get more cleaners in the class room. Besides advertising through suppliers, are there any other venues you/they have taken to promote schooling?

What does the BOD of the IICRC think of the boards?
I ould think if they had more representatives like your self promoting further education here it could only help.

Mike,
I'm not sure how to answer the question as to how? My opinion is that as we continue to improve the classes by requiring more mandatory hands-on sessions, as I am pushing within the IICRC exam revisions, and not just lecture based as was the majority of training in the past, they will improve in numbers. Also, hopefully more insurance companies will start in the restoration business side requiring formal certification-style training to do insurance restoration work for their companies. This would be a strong push of mine rather than basing it upon "belonging" to an organization vs. level of training achieved.

Actually, I would like to see these Bulletin Boards in the action of recommending training classes. It would be great to have educational groups using this as an "if you will" advertising medium for quality classes. There is still a lot to say for word of mouth advertising in a forum such as this.

The bulk of the BOD of the IICRC does not frequent these bulletin boards. Due not necessarily to what ones think that they feel they are "too good" to frequent them, but usually the work load placed upon the Executive Committee with all there is to do...plus working the day job...there is very limited time. Also, if the negativity was toned down some against the EC and BOD, they might frequent it more and have a much better well-needed working relationship. I come here to hopefully make a difference and mend bridges, even if it means taking it!
 

joedobbins

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james cooper said:
I think I read that this independent 3rd party tester was also a CRI member . If so , how exactly is this considered independent ?

James

James,
Unfortunately, in this close organization that we have, I'm not sure that there is anything that is totally independent. But, I do feel that the exposure of whomever it is that you're referring to, is so watered down that it would still qualify for independent due to the amount of people within the CRI.
 

Mikey P

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Actually, I would like to see these Bulletin Boards in the action of recommending training classes. It would be great to have educational groups using this as an "if you will" advertising medium for quality classes. There is still a lot to say for word of mouth advertising in a forum such as this.


Joe


You and any other instructor can use our Calender of Events room to promote classes of any type.
Doing so can be a great way to start a discussion about the class

Considering the number of viewers we get here daily I think you should give it a try.
 

joedobbins

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Mikey P said:
What would you have done if you owned a fleet of Butlers, Bluelines or any other non approved truckmount?

Sounds like you got lucky..

Mike,
I would definitely "call them out on the carpet" to have them do the testing to either SHOW ME THEIR STUFF or see what they need to do to change if there were inefficiencies that need correcting. Otherwise, I would have to assume that they may not be doing what they need to do to protect me or rather to show me that they are "The Stuff". Nothing meant negative about any company by my comments, just what would be my comments if I owned a fleet of what you stated here.
 

Rex Tyus

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Joe,
Do you think most of the companies that fraudulently display the IICRC logo in their advertising do so out of ignorance or deceit?

Why doesn't the IICRC put publishers on notice and demand they obtain proof of status before publishing the registered logo?
 

Jim Pemberton

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If we only anticipate 10% of cleaners to be certified in the near future, how will Shaw's carpet that requires the cleaner to be certified be cared for within warranty guidelines?

Do you think these 10%, however worthy, can care for it all?
 

Mikey P

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I would definitely "call them out on the carpet" to have them do the testing to either SHOW ME THEIR STUFF or see what they need to do to change if there were inefficiencies that need correcting. Otherwise, I would have to assume that they may not be doing what they need to do to protect me or rather to show me that they are "The Stuff". Nothing meant negative about any company by my comments, just what would be my comments if I owned a fleet of what you stated here.


I would have to assume that has already happened plenty with both mentioned companies.
Let's assume that they are not going to bend.

Would you replace your fleet?
 

Bob Foster

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Joe do you believe it a fair comment to say that there is a growing resentment to the EC and BOD of the IICRC from the rank and file cleaners because they appear to be serving more influential and important parties or their own administration rather than them?

I know its a loaded question but do the higher ups get this?
 

joedobbins

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Larry Cobb said:
Hi Joe;

I appreciate your appearance on the BB tonight.

In your initial response, you asked why manufacturers would be reluctant to pay for SOA testing on all the pieces of equipment and chemicals used for cleaning and spotting.

I can answer that question from my perspective.

Cost vs. Benefit

As a manufactuer and supplier, I am constantly weighing costs of new certifications versus the benefit to everybody who must ultimately pay THAT COST.

Right now there are several certifications being promoted:

1. CRI SOA

2. Green Seal GS-37

3. EPA's Design for the Environment (DFE)

4. Canada's Equivalent to Green Seal

If a manufacturer were to get all of these certifications, the total cost would be substantial to ALL CLEANERS.

I have a question for you to answer.
How much would the customers in your supply business pay "per gallon" to have 1 thru 4 above on a typical carpet prespray chemical ?

Larry Cobb

Larry,
I must ask you back a question rather than answering it as it is stated. If this testing was paid for you on these chemicals and spread across all the hundreds/thousands of gallons that you sell, keeping in mind that not all the cleaning agents would need or even want to be tested, as a manufacturer, what would the cost per gallon be extra? I have a notion that the "substantial" would be highly overstated wording.

Also, as a manufacturer, would you not want your customers to know that you have reached a level of tested and approved areas of resoiling, residues, health concerns, etc., and use that as promotion to sell even more?
 

cmaster

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Hey Joe,

Thanks for dropping by.

Why doesn't the IICRC spend more money on marketing certified cleaners and firms to the consumer?

Why don't they attempt to get some control over the abuse of the logo?
 

Bob Foster

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Currently, the ASTM has a document titled WK8160, which is a document explaining the test protocol for the CRI SOA program. This document is not currently an ASTM document, but it is under consideration within an ASTM technical committee.

Section 5.3, page 4 of this document states: “This test method is not based on home cleaning tests. There is no established correlation between field and laboratory results.â€ÂÂ
 

joedobbins

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Rex Tyus said:
Joe,
Do you think most of the companies that fraudulently display the IICRC logo in their advertising do so out of ignorance or deceit?

Why doesn't the IICRC put publishers on notice and demand they obtain proof of status before publishing the registered logo?

Rex,
I feel your anger and your pain, as I also am a company that is a certified firm and have fraudulent display by competitors. It is my opinion that some are out of ignorance but yes, some do it out of "deceit".

I think that the second question would be an extreme logistical nightmare to do. Further, people everywhere in this business also advertise that they are insured and probably have never had insurance.

Agreed...a true problem. But, as long as there are people with intent to be fraudulent, there will always be problems with this situation and everything else that we face in life. Sad...but true!

All we can do is be honest in our actions and hope that our marketing and our customers will continue to make us very successful by us creating cheerleaders on a continual basis.
 

Desk Jockey

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Joe
Can you understand why someone running a business would prefer to NOT have an outside organization tell them how to run their business?

Or Why someone would not want to comply with an outside organization making up new "certification" and then having to pay an exorbitant fee for something they never asked for?

Can you see where the CRI's and Green Seals of the world will spread like bunnies until business people either die under weight of all the poorly thought out "certification programs" or refuse to give in to blackmail?
 

joedobbins

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Jim Pemberton said:
If we only anticipate 10% of cleaners to be certified in the near future, how will Shaw's carpet that requires the cleaner to be certified be cared for within warranty guidelines?

Do you think these 10%, however worthy, can care for it all?

I think that there will definitely be a push to make this more to help fulfill the warranty issues. We also must understand that, as you well know, many upon many customers will never have their carpets cleaned. Also, not all falls under those warranty specifics.

Will we make it? Hopefully, people such as the ones here and you, also, will make a push to let all know that they need the training to be able to help provide an even better level of service than they may even be providing now. Even one point and idea will help people. Further, the certified firm status will help ensure levels of business insurance, training, etc.

Yes, I think it is attainable.
 

Larry Cobb

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Joe;

I would estimate over $2.50 per gallon on average to get all the certifications for each cleaning chemical AND spotter.

Would your customers pay that for those certifications ??
Mine would not want to pay that upcharge....

In response to the questions:

1. I completely disagree with Green Seal's requirements such as:
A. Biodegradation studies for every ingredient
B. Cold water usage & cleaning efficiency

2. In regard to SOA, we had already tested for ASTM D65 resoiling and cleaning efficiency with one of the large mills before the SOA program even thought about it.

Larry Cobb
 

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