Interview with Mike Vernon 11-15-06

Mikey P

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Born and raised in the State of Oregon.

Moved to Lincoln, IL. with parents, brother and sister in 1958.

Attended Junior college for 2 years majoring in basketball and girls.

Worked for a dry cleaner who also had a Bigelow Karpet Kare franchise.
Rotary shampoo with vac extract. Cleaned lots of rugs. Very little wall to wall.

Went back to Oregon in 1960 to finish college at University of Oregon. Got my majors straightened out. Majored in History and Business.

1964-65 Bachelor of Science, and MBA.

1965-66 Ended up back in Lincoln, Il. with wife and daughter - and working for the same dry cleaner. But he had added a carpet retail store, and I managed that.

1966 Started cleaning carpet as an addition to the carpet store. Used dry foam wirh an Advance Carpetron dry foam machine.

1968 Told Dry cleaner-Carpet store guy to go to . . . ., and started my own business.

Came up with an original name for our business. Added a "d" to Advance -and we had Advanced Carpet and Furniture Cleaning.

More janitorial work in those early years than carpet cleaning. Had to eat.
But at one time had contracts with 65 school districts to daily clean, clean carpet, tile floor, gym floors.

In the early 70's went to Manitowoc, WI. for a 3-4- day Ed York Seminar.
Contrarian Ed sent me home with my brain whirling. Really the start of good things.

Came back home and immediately purchased a poetable extractor from Deep Steam. Drag tool and all, 7 jets on the 45 lb. drag tool at 24 psi.

Mid 70's got further involved with Ed York and Steam Services, and SCT.
Covered the midwest as a rep for Steam Services - while continuing my carpet cleaning business.

In the late 70's, also repped for Cleanmaster They manufactured a dual vac portable that had see-through acrylic tanks. We literally built our carpet cleaning busines on "seeing the dirt".

In 1980, stopped repping for Steam Services and Cleanmaster, and with Bob Klopfenstein, started Jan-San Sevices Janitorial in Decatur, Il.

Built Jan Services to $900,000.00 in about a year. (Don't do this - that quick).

In 1984, Bob and I sold Jan-San Services, and started on our first product.
In the beginning, we called our products "RE-Entry". The first two products were a pine oil spotter, and Pow-R-Pak Pre-Spray. ( Pow-R-Pak was to go through 17 revisions before we were done, but we din't know that at the beginning.

Bob and I started our chemical business with the up-front decision to make carpet cleaning chemistry as simple and safe as possible. We wanted as few products as possible with every product being able to cross over and do multiple tasks.

We deliberately went outside the box, and manufactured chemistry that we believed in, and not just to make more of the same ol' thing.

In 1988, we added our solvent based fabric protector.

In 1989, we added our Power Powder Emusifier.

In 1995, we added Pro Power liquid emulsifier as a consumer product. We didn't sell it to carpet cleaners until 1999.

In 1997, we began looking for a way to make a water based protector that would not be just another "me too" product.
Extended coverage, didn't re-wet the carpet, profit maker, easy to use, safe for all, et. cet.

By 2000, we were ready to introduce Soil Blocker water based protector.

In 2006, six products that we manufacture ourselve, 1 product we buy ready made.

Today we chuckle at those who forecast failure for a company who only had 6 products.

Retirement is not in my personal vocabulary. This business is fun. Ask our customers. I personally connect with every one. Ah, the joys of a small business where the owner always answers the phone.

Mike @ HBCC




In this format you'll have to hit the refresh or reload button every minute or so on your computer to keep up.

The first hour or so will be questions that were "Pre-asked". Please let us get through those before we get to the "Live" questions.

Mike, let me know when you're here and we'll get started.
 

Mikey P

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Ok Mike first question...

With the understanding that simpler is better, and with the wide range of stains and carpet fibers out there, how does Hard Ball compete with only 7 products?
 

Mikey P

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Hard Ball Chemicals is committed to being the best with a few – instead of being the guy with the biggest catalog. Bob and I have been in both worlds. Trust me, it is OUR decision to be this way. Matter of fact, we do quite well competing with our “out of the boxâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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Next question....

Will Hard Ball chems be CFI tested and added to their SOA products?
And what’s you take on the CFI program?
 
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I expect, based on current knowledge, to take a wait and let’s see attitude about both situations. I don’t believe that “janitorialâ€Â
 
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You bet. Do yourself a favor, and at least make your life easier every time you clean a deal like this.
Why not protect? Protector, once applied, will survive several cleanings.
I don’t believe that you could ever completely clear a carpet of applied protector.
Once again, tell your customer the honest, truthful pros and cons – and let them decide.
 

Mikey P

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Gotcha...

Thats what I think as well...

Next...

At what point does protection become compromised to the point that it needs to be replenished? What is the most effective way to Re-Protect the fibers?
Can you tell us your thoughts about using a bonnet to work in protectors?
 
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The only practical way protectors are removed from carpets or furniture are with abrasion. Foot abrasion, butt abrasion, head abrasion, kids, animals, certain types of foot wear, et. cet.
I think that the fair way for the customer is for you to appraise the living situation, and give them your professional advice based on how there home is used.
In most cases, the first cleaning visit, I will apply protector wall to wall.
If I am in that same home on a yearly basis, I will most likely only re-treat traffic lanes, and high traffic areas for the next year or two. Then back to a wall to wall.
One of the interesting things we have tried is to bonnet the protector into the carpet after spray application. This started because we do lots of post bonneting anyway, and it was just kind of natural to apply the protector first, and then bonnet.
Here’s what we have found. You get a definite better finished look. Long term customers will tell you so – or ask you what you did different – “it looks better!â€Â
 
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You have to expand your thinking on this question to include the backing of the carpet as a point of protection – beyond just the fibers themselves.
Olefin’s are notorious for wick-backs. Where is the wicking coming from? The fiber or the backing?
Suppose that even if your protector slid down the fiber to the back. Could it maybe “sealâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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That's why we love you Mike...


Next..


What provides better protection. Acid Dye Resistors or Fluoro-chemical? Why?
Can both be applied in one product effectively?
 
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Remember a few years ago when a form of acid dye blocker protector could be found on every corner? Now, there’s about one that I know of . . .
Acid Dye Blockers and Fluorochemicals are 2 different birds. They are basically not similar in characteristics.
When applied to a carpet together – simply stated – one or the other occupies the “pointâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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Even a lunk head like me can understand that...


I got this question from more then a few guys...

How does protector work? Please keep the answer simple as I had trouble reading the Dr. Aziz fluorochemical explanation.
 
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If you take a piece of fabric and look at it under a microscope, you will find that the individual fibers are not smooth. They consist of high and low areas. The low areas being like crevasses. When a fiber “gets dirtyâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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Good enough for me...
Like I always say, my repeats are a breeze to clean...


Next..

We’ve noticed that sometimes there’s a funky odor with the “no odorâ€Â
 
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Fluoropolymers by there very nature smell somewhat yucky.
But what you experienced from that issue of Soil Blocker was caused by our local water supply.
Our water supply is totally from wells. In dry periods, as the level of water goes down in the well, there is a good chance of microbial growth on the walls of the well.
After a big rain, when the water rises back up in the wells, this microbial growth enters the water supply itself. Readily controlled by Chlorine, which we remove from the water by reverse osmosis. So the water smells “funkyâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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Here are a few questions along the same lines...


How is Soil blocker different from Scotchgard/Teflon?
I’ve heard there are only a few soil protectant mfrs. on the planet. If Soil Blocker isn’t a 3M or DuPont product, which one is it?
Mother Earth News did a piece on Scothgard/Teflon a few years ago and found the products to have a lot of potential health concerns for those who come in contact with them. Are there any concerns with Soil Blocker?
Does Soil Blocker or your Solvent Fabric Protector contain 3M or Dupont fluorochemicals?
 

Mikey P

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We started out with an outside the box idea of what a protector should be – then had to go looking for answers to achieve the results.
Our perfect product base had to have a safe track record of absolutely no carcinogen questions. It had to be water based. It needed to have a high solid content which could be applied, and would level and attach – without using a lot of water. It had to have a better than average low cost factor. It had to be easy to use – basically fool proof. It needed to not have a typical “yuckyâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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next question for Mike..

Is it your opinion that it takes your liquid rinse to properly rinse out Pow-R-Pak pre-spray? Would a soft water high temp (water only) rinse get it out if a guy suddenly ran out in his mix jug?
 

Mikey P

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Pow-R-Pak as it stands is free rinse. We have 67 bonnet cleaners who use Pow-R-Pak as their main chemical. We also have numerous, dry foam, Host, encapsulators who use Pow-R-Pak as their main pre-spray chemical. None of this methods employ a “rinseâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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In view of all the solvents and surfactants you and your partner could have reached for you used limonene. Can you share what it is about that compound that makes it so special.
 

Mikey P

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We had pre-conceived ideas about the chemistry that we were going to develop. Each chemical needed to be safe, be concentrated for value, be easy to use, be a crossover able to do different applications. One of our objectives with Pow-R-Pak pre-spray was also to keep it on the acid side. So rather than use alkalinity to break the soil bond from fabric, we used a natural solvent.
Initially, we used pine oil terpene alcohol, as pine oil has better cleaning ability, and free rinses without a lot of additives. But, more than half of our customers objected to the over powering fragrance of the pine – so, we switched to Orange. All of this was during the time frame when petro-chemicals were looking at being phased out on a govt. set time frame.
Its important to understand that there are different grades of Limonene – and that it becomes the choice of the manufacturer what level he is willing to pay for. We use the most pure form available – food grade – which means we also pay the highest prices.
Based on some recent “talkâ€Â
 

Mikey P

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Well guys...that's the effect of having dial up AND AOL...


Mike's PC is glowing red right now...

lol



We'll now try to do some "live questions for Mike...


Fire away...
 
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