Is OP really just smoke n' mirrors?

[diamond brian]

Well, I got to meet John and Patty Geurkink Wednesday. A couple of the finest people you'll ever meet. I'm not sure how that ol' fart landed Patty, but that's another story...

Being a die-hard HWE guy, I used to take shots at John and bonnet cleaning in general at every given opportunity. I had experimented with rotary bonnet cleaning a number of times with lackluster results.

We cleaned a heavily soiled church dining hall (olefin) using their Brute, Freestyle, and Commercial Breeze--all of the 17" variety. I didn't like the movement of the Breeze at all. The Freestyle was incredibly easy to maneuver, as was the Brute.

The carpet turned out great, and it was some heavily soiled stuff. I didn't admit it to John at the time, but one of my guys had HWE'd this place a couple of months ago and the spots there had undoubtedly wicked back.

So, as I proudly boasted here a while back, I will swallow my pride, buy one or more of John's machines and humble myself to the level of commercial padder (still don't think our residential custy's would go for it).

What can I say? I'm no suck-up, and I was certain that John was all smoke and mirrors. I just knew he had his videos doctored.

But, I can be man enough to admit when I'm whipped. Call me a shill if you will, but I'm just owning up to what I said I'd do. John's machines do clean CGD with better results than HWE.

 

[Mikey P]

Better then your version of HWE anyways..

 

[steve frasier]

Did it clean it better or make it look better the HWE

I have a Conqueror machine and have no complaints about John, his chemicals or his method

the only question I have is how many pads did you use and did you clean it until you got no dirt transfer onto the pads

 

[diamond brian]

This is true. If I had a Vortex, I'd chase Chinese restaurants and massage parlors (probably many of the same employees).

It's funny, 6 months ago, I wouldn't have considered using a bonnet on carpet. Now, I'm sold on it. I guess the boards are good for something.

We did use a lot of pads Steve. I'm guessing 20 +/- thick Gladiator pads for 2000 sq ft. As for technique, I have none. I rolled the Brute and Freestyle forward slowly and noticed the carpet cleaning up nicely.

 

[Mikey P]

So have you ever pre vacuumed, pre sprayed, red padded, mega flow rinsed then post padded with cotton a CGD before ?

That will get you the same great looking carpet and you'll have removed far more dirt. But the equipment costs a fortune and many customers wont pay for it.


So get a Brute for them.

 

[diamond brian]

Yes, but I prefer white pads to red and not with mega-flow. I find it hard to believe that high flow can attribute to less wicking on CGD.

 

[Mikey P]

With High Flow you use leave less water behind.


Think about it.

 

[alazo1]

Did you ever get the loaner op Mike?

Albert

 

[steve frasier]

if you remove the dirt then there is nothing to wick

next time you wand some thing go really slow, then use your normal wand stroke

now touch the carpet and see which area feels drier

 

[B&BGaryC]

"if you remove the dirt then there is nothing to wick

next time you wand some thing go really slow, then use your normal wand stroke

now touch the carpet and see which area feels drier"

----- With my experience it is the normal wand stroke. Is that the point you were making? I have never had a good wand, but I got a greenglide for a crappy wand...

""With High Flow you use leave less water behind.


Think about it."

-------- I tried to think about it, but it didn't work. Is this a crappy wand thing again?

"So have you ever pre vacuumed, pre sprayed, red padded, mega flow rinsed then post padded with cotton a CGD before ?

That will get you the same great looking carpet and you'll have removed far more dirt. But the equipment costs a fortune and many customers wont pay for it."

----- Have tried it. Not the mega flow rinse. Are red pads the adsorbent ones? Because my adsorbent pads are white and green.

And yes, nobody has ever paid me what it was worth. I did it at the same price as regular HWE to secure some monthly accounts. (First cleaning only.) Sent them a bill for $100 more than double what they agreed on, with all the discounts clearly marked down to the normal price that they selected. They didn't appreciate it, but they couldn't believe that I saved their carpet. They just wanted me to do monthlys to keep it that way after I restored it.

 

[Jimmy L]

Bad wand technique is the failure of HWE.

But at least he won't have those $1200 vortex payments so who cares how many pads he uses?

 

[Brad_Smith]

Brian you want a brute? I have one for you in brand new shape only 2 1/2 hours away. I will even meet you half way.

Brad

 

[Kevin B]

Yes, but I prefer white pads to red and not with mega-flow. I find it hard to believe that high flow can attribute to less wicking on CGD.

WOW WOW WOW is all I can say. FLOW is the key to wicking. Get that crap out of there without the beating psi that is needed to get the right amount of water to flush it out, prior to higher flow.

I am telling you, flow is KING.


The reason why higher flow works is very simple.

1. Less pressure is forced into the carpet, but more water is allowed out of the jets at the same or less pressure even.

2. Lower pressure, but more water actually allows the vacuum to recover the water off the fiber, instead of trying to recover it out of the backing.

3. High flow without a glide is stupid. You need the glide to help with the flush of the fiber.

4. Because more water is being pushed at a lower pressure, there is less atomization, creating less humidity in the air, allowing more water to evaporate when your done.

5. Higher temps are obtained, and less heat is lost at a higher flow because there is less atomization of the water.

 

[tim]

Hey Brian, glad you got to use an OP. They definitely have their place. I have cured many an wickback problem with them. Everyone loves the Cimex with fiber plus pads, what do they clean? The vacuum does the cleaning. (Dont get me wrong, I love mine! Covers alot of ground and makes carpet look great!) An OP does pick up alot of soil and using encapsulation, the vacuum picks up some. Does it replace HWE? Absolutely not! But definitely a nice tool to use. OP slower than Cimex, go through pads like crazy but can clean Commerical Glue Down nicely (would still HWE and post pad every 3-4 cleans) By the way Brian, the sprayer I bought from you works great! Parked my old one in the shop as the backup!

 

[tim]

Brad,
If Brian doesnt want it, I may be interested at a good price. I am definitely looking to upgrade my OP's to a Brute. Was going to get one at a later date but may step up the time table for the right price!

 

[Mikey P]

White pad on Commercial?



No wonder.

 

[Mark Azevedo]

Well, I got to meet John and Patty Geurkink Wednesday. A couple of the finest people you'll ever meet. I'm not sure how that ol' fart landed Patty, but that's another story...

Being a die-hard HWE guy, I used to take shots at John and bonnet cleaning in general at every given opportunity. I had experimented with rotary bonnet cleaning a number of times with lackluster results.

We cleaned a heavily soiled church dining hall (olefin) using their Brute, Freestyle, and Commercial Breeze--all of the 17" variety. I didn't like the movement of the Breeze at all. The Freestyle was incredibly easy to maneuver, as was the Brute.

The carpet turned out great, and it was some heavily soiled stuff. I didn't admit it to John at the time, but one of my guys had HWE'd this place a couple of months ago and the spots there had undoubtedly wicked back.

So, as I proudly boasted here a while back, I will swallow my pride, buy one or more of John's machines and humble myself to the level of commercial padder (still don't think our residential custy's would go for it).

What can I say? I'm no suck-up, and I was certain that John was all smoke and mirrors. I just knew he had his videos doctored.

But, I can be man enough to admit when I'm whipped. Call me a shill if you will, but I'm just owning up to what I said I'd do. John's machines do clean CGD with better results than HWE.

John has got it, his system is incredible

 

[hogjowl]

John is really good at selling his systems. He knows what buttons to push. He pushed mine a few years back.

Once you get tired of rubbing the carpets with that rag, let somebody show you how to stop that wicking while using a real cleaning method.

Until then, happy vibrating.

 

[diamond brian]

Well, it's like this. If the carpet looks great, my customers are happy. If my customers are happy, I will get to retire in a few years. If I spend all my earnings on Vortexs, I'll have to work 'til I die.

This was some nasty dining room carpet Marty. The only buttons John pushed was showing me a better way. Had we gotten poor results, I would have posted that as well.

Mikey, I don't use the red pads because the fibers that fall off are too visible on light-colored carpet.

 

[hogjowl]

And, you could just as easily cleaned that nasty dining room carpet with hwe, if you just knew how. And, you wouldn't have to purchase a $2000 boat anchor and could efficiently utilize the single most utilitous tool in your arsenal.

Instead, you're going to spend that $2000, and completely dismiss the $200 piece of equipment that could solve your problem.

But, like I said, John can really sell his system (and keep a straight face all the while), so happy spinning to you.

 

[Jeremy]

Don't hold back Marty... Let us know how you really feel.

 

[diamond brian]

Hey Marty, if you have a better way--I'm all ears.

Now, if you're talking glides; we already have 'em on every wand.

 

[hogjowl]

Well then, I stand corrected. If you have glides, are using encapsulating products and still have wicking issues, then by all means buy the boat anchor.

You need it.

 

[diamond brian]

Thank you Marty. It's comforting to know that I have your blessing. :wink:

 

[TimP]

I've never slowed the flow down for cgd or loop pile olefin. And I've only had one place that wicked back. I cimexed the place to see if I could fix it, and even tried just spot cleaning. Nothing would fix it so I contributed the problem to something in the sub floor that wasn't going away. But 99% of the time I don't have any problems with it, I run 500 psi and an rx-20 and sometimes use the greenhorn depending on the size of the job. I always tell my customers to call me if a spot comes back in a few weeks and so far I have yet to have more than that one customer call me.

 

[B&BGaryC]

I always tell my customers to call me if a spot comes back in a few weeks and so far I have yet to have more than that one customer call me.

People don't have time for it, but you really need to call them. You also need to beg to come and fix any little detail that may still stand out to them. You will learn a lot about what you are doing. If you let them call you, you only get 1 call back for every ten you would get if you solicit call backs. After you do about 5 call backs in a month you can easily isolate what is causing that last little detail to be either missed or wick back, and you can beg all day long and not get any more callbacks having "ever so slightly" tweaked your technique to be that much better. :wink:


Get a load of this guy... Gary thinks he's a guru now! :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[John G]

Too bad Marty couldn't figure out what a kindergartener could... good grief!

He stormed into Atlanta with a TM that couldn't hit 150 degrees too, he is not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box.

 

[B&BGaryC]

White pad on Commercial?



No wonder.

I have two different white pads. One is plasticy and does not absorb any water, it is adsorbent. I use those for pre-scrubbing. Then I use cotton bonnets for post pad. Why be sarcastic? Just turn me onto the real goods and I'll get better.

This board has (and my distributer) has improved my dry times by 20 hours and improved my success with heat transfers*. (*I owe most of it to Doug Heifferman and harryhides)

That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[John G]

Gary C, cotton pads are MUCH more absorbant and will give you a lot more soil removal and better dry times.

The number of contact points between pads and bonnets is KEY.

 

[Kevin B]

Well, it's like this. If the carpet looks great, my customers are happy. If my customers are happy, I will get to retire in a few years. If I spend all my earnings on Vortexs, I'll have to work 'til I die.

This was some nasty dining room carpet Marty. The only buttons John pushed was showing me a better way. Had we gotten poor results, I would have posted that as well.

Mikey, I don't use the red pads because the fibers that fall off are too visible on light-colored carpet.

Your not gonna retire in a few years. Cleaning is linear income. You stop spinning that rag, and money stops. Sure, you can sell it, but your not going to be likely to build a million dollar biz with a rag and spinner.