Is polyester carpet a sign for cleaners?

[hogjowl]

I just read an article in FCW describing the growth of polyester carpet and the "advances" made in it's resilience and soil retardant technology. It describes new extrusion processes and washing abilities that allow the fiber to resist soiling and stand up to wear "like nylon", but appeal to the lower price point market.

Well whatever ... we all know how THAT is likely to turn out ... just more unhappy customers who eventually grow tired of carpet!

But, the article did make me pause and consider this question ... are the carpet mills on to something? Is the American consumer more price averse today than prior to the Great Recession? Do we cleaners need to take note? Is the Ken Snow business model the wave of the future even for owner ops?

Can we give good value at lower price points?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think you can but I think you'll (not you Pig-snot) have to take advantage of the improvements made in the cleaning industry in order to do so. If a cleaner is still cleaning like he did a decade ago then I think it's much harder to keep the margins they once enjoyed.

Cheap cleaning solutions are not the answer, the money you save by buying lesser quality solutions will hurt you in production time or require more steps to be effective. Relying on a scrub wand only could also hurt production times and allow for inconsistent cleaning as the day and job total wear on.

I think powerheads and CRB's should be used, allowing you to be more thorough and consistent. Not only consistent with the final product but with production times.

Buy the best product of which ever brand it is you like, so it allows you to work faster. Use mechanical tools so you won't fatigue as easily and be able to do more jobs when needed. Carry your water so you don't have to spend time looking for or connecting to a water source. Nobody likes to spend money but if you're spending money on items that will help you be productive, then it's money well spent in the long run.

There will always be a group of people than can and will spend more for your services, the question is do you live in a market where there enough of these people? If not you're probably better off adjusting your pricing and cleaning style.

 

[hogjowl]

I don't want to get bogged down in discussing which tools will speed up the process, but I do agree that there are ways to cheapen the process and thus enable a cleaner to survive price point advertising better.

I don't see myself ever doing away with vacuuming, or using glided wands, but I do see me possibly resorting to add-on sales. My current approach is all inclusive. Everything needed is priced into the package ... easy to do with pre-inspections. However, if pricing over the phone, especially using the 4 rooms for $99 approach, all deodorization, Kool-Aid spot removal, other special spotting, scotchgard, rooms over 200 s.f., etc would be extra.

I have always said that you seldom see a large, multi-van company that does s.f. pricing, but I always said there was a place in the market for the one or two truck company with exclusive pricing.

I am simply wondering if that market is contracting?

 

[Desk Jockey]

I've noticed more of our clients having us cleaning several minimum's over the year, instead of us cleaning it all at once a year. Most of those have the discretional income to afford to spend it on cleaning but we are probably down on the pecking order of purchases.

 

[hogjowl]

So, is this effecting the way you are marketing to them now?

 

[J Scott W]

Marty is correct that the mills are selling more lower end carpet than a few years ago, at least for residential use. Go into one of the big box stores and see what they have to offer. Notice how carpet is advertised, often it is the price, free or discounted installation, one room free and similar offers. But when you go to make a purchase of carpet, they will push hard to up-sell you to more expensive product. That is the model that is working for many carpet retailers.

This is not a model I would be comfortable adopting as a cleaner, but that is because of my personality not because that business model is unprofitable.

 

[Desk Jockey]

It's an easy up sell Scott. You go because of price advertised but when they show you the sale carpet and you can see the backing of the carpet, you'll willing to spend more for something with more density.

 

[hogjowl]

What size business were you operating Scott? Were you in the 4 or more van model, or were you in the 1 to 3 van situation?

As an owner operator, with one employee, our similar comfort levels is of no great concern to me, YET.

However, I wonder when it will become a factor? Will I have to start doing more price point advertising when I get my 2nd van to stay busy, or can I go into the 3 or 4th before I can't keep the crews busy doing things the old s.f., inspection pricing way?

 

[Shane Deubell]

Local issue for sure, some parts of the country are really growing again.While some are dying....

For me yes, their is physically less major employers and households over the $100k income then 5-10 years ago. Our metro is big enough for my modest goals though, i can just keep working different angles and adding services over the next 5 years and be fine.

 

[billyeadon]

At the same time Shaw is backing down from polyester and went the other direction to a 100 oz. Caress soft nylon. Scott saw this in Vegas and watched the Hydramaster guys clean it. I just had some shipped to Jon-Don last week. If you are going to clean this you better have a glide or you will be one tired sucker. This will be the same issue with Smartstrand silk. If your vacuum cleaner does not have adjustable heights it will not move.

Back to Polyester, while Shaw may not be pushing it, their old boss Bob Shaw in his new mill is making only polyester and is increasing his production.

The other interesting aspect is Mohawk has announced a new process called Continuum designed for their PET (pop bottle) fiber which they always call their value-based fiber. It has 3 features:

1. Better bottles stock which is supposedly more pure.

2. seeing that these are solution dyed they are going to scour the fibers prior to making it into a carpet.

3. The biggie...they will treat it with Scotchgard.

Now my big question is why they make such a big deal about not applying Scotchgard or anything fluorochemical to SmartStrand.

Marty, I realize this did not answer your question but it does confirm that polyester is the real mover with olefin taking the biggest hit and nylon slowly losing share.

My thought is not that we should lower prices but make sure that we are cleaning all the other alternative floorings including rugs, wood, laminate, LVT (which is the fastest growing segment) tile, stone etc.

Even more importantly is focusing more attention on the commercial market especially Class A offices (or C in Alabama) because they are the perfect environment for encapsulation.

Love to hear everyone's opinions.

 

[hogjowl]

Continuum has an article in the September issue of FCW. Mohawk is targeting the low price angle for a reason. It's not just because God put so much polyester fiber on the market that they just HAVE to do something with it.

 

[juniorc82]

I think the people knee deep in the industry in question tend to over think things way more than the consumer. I just don't know how a company who mills a polyester fiber can say that their new polyester fiber is something greater than .....you guessed it a polyester fiber lol. I have noticed an increase in polyester carpet mainly in rentals but also noticed that the folks with the money still know what a quality carpet is. I remember the other day I was doing a phone estimate and the lady I was talking to sounded insulted when I asked if she had a frieze in her home ( thatshow it sounded the way she described it) I remember similar posts on this very board about smartstrand carpet and how it was gonna be the next new thing and it too was flop , quite litteraly a flop might I add ass the resiliency of smart strand totally sucks! so I ask you guys to look deep in your soul and ask your selves......can polyester ever be more than a cheap limp ass carpet? I don't think so

 

[ruff]

I don't think the mills determine the way people are shopping. Price point shopping has been here for ever and will always be.
Just as most (not all) large carpet cleaning companies cater to price point shoppers. And small niche companies can, if they choose to, cater to the quality more personal service oriented clientele. So your marketing, as always will need to be adjusted and suitable to your target market.

On my side, I steer my clients (I advise them to call me for free carpet purchasing advise before buying) away from what the mills are pushing and towards better quality nylon. Anybody who's been in this business for a while knows that what the mills are pushing and the best interest of the clients are often on the opposite ends.

 

[billyeadon]

I don't think the mills determine the way people are shopping. Price point shopping has been here for ever and will always be.
Just as most (not all) large carpet cleaning companies cater to price point shoppers. And small niche companies can, if they choose to, cater to the quality more personal service oriented clientele. So your marketing, as always will need to be adjusted and suitable to your target market.

On my side, I steer my clients (I advise them to call me for free carpet purchasing advise before buying) away from what the mills are pushing and towards better quality nylon. Anybody who's been in this business for a while knows that what the mills are pushing and the best interest of the clients are often on the opposite ends.

Ofer I agree with you but this new 100oz nylon Shaw is offering is the most comfortable piece of carpet I have ever been around. I am sure it comes with a comparable price tag.

 

[Mikey P]

That's a bold statement for a man of your pedigree Bill.


but have you ever been "around" a bear rug?

 

[billyeadon]

That's a bold statement for a man of your pedigree Bill.


but have you ever been "around" a bear rug?

c'mon Mikey that picture of me is from my past career.

 

[Mikey P]

We took a wild kayak trip in Florida once, gators all over the place. The trip ended in the tiny town of Jupiter.

Birthplace or childhood home to Mr Reynolds.

They had a petting zoo and historical museum there to honor him.

You could pet a goat and one of his old wigs





anyways, this poly discussion was getting out of hand


I return you now to our regular program.

 

[Desk Jockey]

That only looks like a wig......don't stick your hand through the hole in the fence!

 

[J Scott W]

What size business were you operating Scott? Were you in the 4 or more van model, or were you in the 1 to 3 van situation?

As an owner operator, with one employee, our similar comfort levels is of no great concern to me, YET.

However, I wonder when it will become a factor? Will I have to start doing more price point advertising when I get my 2nd van to stay busy, or can I go into the 3 or 4th before I can't keep the crews busy doing things the old s.f., inspection pricing way?

At different times in my business I ran either one or two truckmounts. I also had portable that might be used for multi-story commercial buildings, upholstery cleaning and such.

 

[ruff]

Ofer I agree with you but this new 100oz nylon Shaw is offering is the most comfortable piece of carpet I have ever been around. I am sure it comes with a comparable price tag.

That's good to know Bill, and if you're recommending it, I'm sure it's a great carpet.
Though I was under the impression that Marty was talking about Polyester and low priced carpeting

 

[billyeadon]

That's good to know Bill, and if you're recommending it, I'm sure it's a great carpet.
Though I was under the impression that Marty was talking about Polyester and low priced carpeting

Yes you are right Ofer he was talking polys. I was just giving a flicker of hope that the whole world won't be made of old Mt. Dew bottles. Shaw and a few others will try and bring out some quality products.

 

[hogjowl]

That's ok Bill. I forgive you for COMPLETELY SCREWING UP MY THREAD.

 

[The Great Oz]

But, the article did make me pause and consider this question ... are the carpet mills on to something? Is the American consumer more price averse today than prior to the Great Recession? Do we cleaners need to take note? Is the Ken Snow business model the wave of the future even for owner ops?

Can we give good value at lower price points?

The mill reps I've talked to admit that they know poly will not live up to expectations or their own claims, but the low priced stuff is definitely selling, so they need to sell it to stay in business. They hope that buyers will return to better quality carpet rather than not buy carpet in the future, but they're worried about that gamble as well. I've spoken to numerous customers of ours that had questions about whether to buy nylon or poly, and I realize that they want me to tell them the cheap stuff is great they're smart for buying it.

Even though those high-end customers are price aware (rather than price averse) when buying, service seems to be something they will still pay for.

 

[hogjowl]

I clean more on Main Street rather than Manhattan Blvd., so the poly customers are mainly what I am seeing these days. Referrals are almost always sure to buy from me, and of course, past customers too. However, I seem to be selling less and less of those who call off of a google search.

 

[Shane Deubell]

I clean more on Main Street rather than Manhattan Blvd., so the poly customers are mainly what I am seeing these days. Referrals are almost always sure to buy from me, and of course, past customers too. However, I seem to be selling less and less of those who call off of a google search.

Tsk,Tsk are you using your sfs phone script?

I'm sure steve can email it to you if you lost it.