Is the IICRC still in business

[ruff]

If that is the case, than there's no need for any veteran to pay any dues, as we're all either pretty well trained or totally nu-trainable.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. But something that promotes the "good cleaner" will be nice.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

If that is the case, than there's no need for any veteran to pay any dues, as we're all either pretty well trained or totally nu-trainable.

This is yet another of the "communication gaps" with the IICRC.

The fees for the certifications and the certified firm fee aren't dues in the strict sense of the word, but instead money that is supposed to pay for the needed record keeping and listing of your firm with whoever might want to know that you're a certified technician working for a certified firm.

(I am NOT saying that's fair....just explaining what it really is supposed to be)

Its my understanding that they now are making what was once "Certified Firm Fees" dues to the IICRCA association, but I'm now living "East of Eden in the land of Nod", so I could be wrong.

Whether those fees were/are worth the value for what you receive for paying them is not something I am in a position to judge. I'll only repeat that for the most part, the quality of the education that you get from IICRC instructors is pretty good to great (with a few rare exceptions), and even if you never took a test or kept up paying fees/dues/whatever, its worth the investment.

 

[ronbeatty]

Why doesn't an IICRC board member or the Executive director get on here and give a definitive answer instead of letting the speculation continue? It would give the IICRC some credibility.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Why doesn't an IICRC board member or the Executive director get on here and give a definitive answer instead of letting the speculation continue? It would give the IICRC some credibility.

John Downey from the IICRC responded to our concerns.
He did a great job in clearing things up

 

[ronbeatty]

Really?

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Really?

He was until we made him upset with us

 

[Big Jim]

Ofer

With the understanding as always that I'm far from an apologist for the IICRC....
I hope that day comes. This industry needs this recognition, and it mostly deserves it.

In an effort to be open I should mention I am member of the CRA and as such a member of the ICRA. For those of you who don't know the CRA (Cleaning and Restoration Association) is the west coast regional association, combined with 5 other regional associations that make up the ICRA (International Cleaning and Restoration Association). There maybe some that see no value in associations or certification, and I have no problem with that. Personally I have always believed in training, and education. I also realize that just because you've passed a test doesn't mean you're necessarily a better carpet cleaner or water damage guy than someone else. I was a member of and trained through the IICRC for 20 years. What I learned is far more valuable than any tool or piece of equipment. The IICRC was a great resource with many talented individuals contributing to our industry. This not an effort to bash the IICRC. Many of you are aware that a few years ago a number of things started to go seriously wrong with the group. People who were instrumental in helping develop the standards and the organization realized the organization had become completely dysfunctional. It is disheartening to see people who have contributed so much realize that the organization that they contributed so much to has imploded. It is what it is. At this juncture no one can say for sure what the future holds for this fledgling effort by the ICRA. I do know having a new realistic option is something that should be considered. It would be nice for people like Jim Pemberton and others who have given so much to have an organization that's worth being part of available. Personally I decided to transfer my certifications to the ICRA. If nothing else I saved over a hundred dollars in fees. I do believe the ICRA is at least headed in the right direction.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't believe starting over is the answer. If nobody knows who the IICRC is after all these years what chance does a start up organization have of becoming known?

Too many politics involved and I don't really give a rats ass about the politics.

Pathetic! I think I'll sit this one out until the smoke settles.

 

[dgardner]

I'm hearing a common thread I think. The IICRC is worthless for name recognition among the general public. No real benefit in promoting the name. That's the job best left to a trade association anyway.

Standards are useful.

Many have received training over the years that has been beneficial. Employers can use the certifications to gauge employee proficiency. Certain situations, i.e. WDR, may require certs. So, it is useful within the industry.

Sounds like the IICRC should concentrate on training, testing, certification and standards, nothing else.

Leave the PR to someone else....

 

[Dolly Llama]

The fees for the certifications and the certified firm fee aren't dues in the strict sense of the word, but instead money that is supposed to pay for the needed record keeping and listing of your firm with whoever might want to know that you're a certified technician working for a certified firm.

maybe when long dusty rows of file cabinets and wide bottomed secretaries stacked folders in alphabetical order were the norm
but in this day 'n age ?

I called you this afternoon, Jim
By the time I got home, i had three files in my email inbox with everything i asked for.
(BTW, thanks!)
When i call to order chems from you, they're at my door the next afternoon .

I know that's due in large part to an extremely well run operation and staff.
But it's also due in part to the electronics/computing age where chit happens fast by mashing a few buttons on a keyboard

Leave the PR to someone else.

I could go along with that...but if these resto guys are saying they need the certs for insurance work, "someone" must of done the leg work to get them on board .

I'm pro formal/structured education and expect to pay good money for good ed
(I've personally spent thou$and$ on firearms training and credentials to train/certify others)
but an org that wants to collect relatively* high yearly fees, needs to demonstrate there's value in it for the average CCing outfit

i say "relatively" high based on what I pay in administrative fees to keep my firearms instructor creds current "on file" and obtainable to anyone.
They're down right cheap pr year @ $30 bukz ..and they're just a "click away" to anyone with a 'puter or smArt fone

lastly, the classes and creds I paid for...it took about three weeks for a big manila envelope with a "suitable for framing" certificate to come in the mail
(with a thick cardboard insert so the "suitable for framing" cert didn't get bent)
But electronically, the certs were on file in a matter of days


there's no excuse in this day and age for any "professional" outfit to not be the same


..L.T.A.

 

[encapman]

My reply... http://mikeysboard.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-industry-trade-association.279803/

 

[Shane Deubell]

I dont know the inside baseball, can say this exact same conversation has gone on the whole 8 years i have been in this industry. Nonstop.

Clearly something is wrong with the corporate structure, people come/go but the results stay the same.

 

[ruff]

And they say- Nothing is permanent!

 

[Big Jim]

My reply... New Industry Trade Association

View attachment 5950

Anything but easy. It has been an enormous amount of hard work. Rick I like you and enjoy doing business with you. Tell me starting Excellent Supply was IEZUC.

 

[encapman]

Jim, don't take this so seriously. There's noting easy about being in business. It's even harder to be successful in business. My quip here is to make some humor out of the mess the IICRC has become.

Frankly the technique of cleaning carpet is NOT as technically difficult as some in the industry would have you and I believe. We are cleaning a short piece of textile. There are some rules about pH and chemistry that we all need to know. There are also some mechanical cleaning techniques that are essential to understand too. And there are business related strategies and practices, and marketing approaches that can help a business owner to be successful. These things can be learned - in fact they NEED to be learned. Technicians need to be trained too.

Thankfully the IICRC has been an agency to provide some of the needed training. I've learned some valuable things from good IICRC instructors. However.... all of their the politics, in fighting, and other such nonsense through the years has muddied the organization. It gets in the way of it being an aid to our industry. At this point it looks like the wheels are coming off the bus with their new "management organization".

The role of a certification organization like the IICRC is NOT such a hard task when you really stop and think about it. The IICRC sanctions classes taught by independent instructors. The burden of the class curriculum falls on the shoulders of the instructors. Essentially the role of the IICRC is simply to oversee the classes, grade the test papers, and administer the passing grades - certification. That's really not all that terribly complicated. In fact I can think of a few businessmen on this board who could probably handle a task like that (in addition to running their cleaning businesses). Like I said "it's easy you see". Bottom line: The IICRC has become a joke, and so is the IEZUC.

 

[Jeremy N]

Frankly the technique of cleaning carpet is NOT as technically difficult as some in the industry would have you and I believe. We are cleaning a short piece of textile. There are some rules about pH and chemistry that we all need to know. There are also some mechanical cleaning techniques that are essential to understand too. And there are business related strategies and practices, and marketing approaches that can help a business owner to be successful. These things can be learned - in fact they NEED to be learned. Technicians need to be trained too.

I'm no pro but sometimes I gotta laugh about this. I see some videos and then comments. Folks are like - whoooo buddy, you clean that carpet gooooood!!! You squirtg ans suck like no other!!

 

[Big Jim]

[QUOTE="encapman, post:My quip here is to make some humor out of the mess the IICRC has become.
However.... all of their the politics, in fighting, and other such nonsense through the years has muddied the organization. At this point it looks like the wheels are coming off the bus with their new "management organization".
"The role of a certification organization like the IICRC is NOT such a hard task when you really stop and think about it." and administer the passing grades - certification. "That's really not all that terribly complicated". [/QUOTE]

Hey Rick I understand you're just joking around.... no problem. I like how much everyone jokes around. Obviously many are dissatisfied with the IICRC. I agree it appears the wheels have come off the IICRC; but hopefully this will be more about looking at a new option. Most would agree it's good to have options. I have seen how much time and effort has gone into getting this project going. I would respectfully disagree that developing an option like this is "really not all that terribly complicated." By the way love the CRB I got from you (free plug) it's Excellent!

 

[encapman]

Glad to hear that you're enjoying your BrushEncap!

I agree that we need options. Here's hoping that ICRA can deliver something more solid. Or perhaps the IICRC can get it together. Either option would be great for the industry.

 

[Shorty]

Jeez, where have I seen this bloke before ????

 

[Lonnie McDonald]

As the immediate past Treasurer of IICRC:
Thank you for this forum and this thread

The problems at IICRC are far worse and far more pervasive than the surface.

Registrants have been lied to
Certified Firms have been lied to
Instructors /Schools have been lied to
Shareholders have been lied to and larger requirements put on them to try and eliminate them.

Board members are threatened with legal actions and removal if they share facts.

Financials aren't completely shared to the point where even board members can't get a complete copy.

The things that are hallmarks in requirements for Board and Executive Committee Positions are violated.
Duty of Care
Duty of Loyalty
Fiduciary Duty
Honesty
Integrity

Back room deals
Looking for paid IICRC positions
Some deal that no one can decode with RIA
Who is not a Sharehokder or Charter member of IICRCA yet there Acronym shows on a current IICRC newsletter and their membership is being sold in the IICRCA Members area?

Carpet mills pulling IICRC out of documents
Schools and Instructors leaving IICRC registrant sand Firms leaving IICRC.

Censorship on its discussion board.

And these are the tip of the iceberg.

If the Executive Committee, who by the way runs the IICRC 99.9 percent of the time can't grasp the business sense that leadership has failed and a drastic change is needed ...


...Then business 101
If it's broke fix it now
If it's leadership replace it now


Frankly IICRC could created a new structure in less time.

 

[Mikey P]

Whew!!

Lonnie how much of this mess was inherited from the old guard and how much created by the new?

On a hypothetical note, if you were given complete control tomorrow and given one month to fix everything, how would you go about it, assuming money was not the question?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Gawwwwddd is it worth all this grief? Fookkkk!

I'm just a pee-on and don't have a dog in this fight but i'm to the point I really don't give a large rats ass about either entity. Just a bunch of accusations and finger pointing going on between the two.

There! I feel a lot better now!


You may continue!

 

[hogjowl]

Gosh, Richard.

What took you so long?

 

[Desk Jockey]

been a little constipated lately. I think I need more roughage.




Coincidentally I did have a physical this am and the doc said I'm in excellent health. He told me to keep doing what I'm doing.

I said "nothing?".

 

[Lonnie McDonald]

Good question Mike

1. We have no idea exactly how much money their really is in a liquid state.
I do know they were in the red in operating funds for awhile and accessing reserves.

What ever funds IICRC has should be allocated to fixing all issues.

Things like the Journal and travel with no accountability ...all those funds should be directed to securing IICRC Staffing to augment Metcreds mgt. I haven't seen those 2 contracts.

Frankly when asked about mgt change in 2012-2013. My suggestion was internal staff done over a period of time. I thought KCI was doing a great job towards the end. But in reality if there was a change. Internal would save hundreds of thousands.

The mgt change was done after I was gone. So I never saw the group of candidates.

2. No more lies
No more partial truths
No more money grubbing for paid positions
No more back room deals
Brutal honesty

3. Minimal marketing
A that money should go to staffing

4. Contracts that don't give the Chairman ultimate power over experts. It was so bad that professional paid staff ..in my mind was doing things that weren't in IICRCs best interest.

5. Fiscal accountability
No brainer


6. Was it created past or present.
Almost all presently created issues


Most of the things are operational mindset changes.


I haven't seen the state of the database.

If it were my own company ...
Many things would change overnight

In this case I think you are talking a couple months.

 

[Shorty]

Thank you Lonnie for giving the people the facts.

Integrity can never be compromised.

Wish you all the best for the future.

Shorty.

 

[Mikey P]

Lonnie,

What do these salaried postions pay?

Are you in with ICRA now?

And where do you see this all ending up?

 

[Lonnie McDonald]

Paid staff not volunteers

The paid President - Patrick Winters
With benefits was about 230k
I believe his contract was supposed to expire this month. It somehow was extended for a while and I can't see a Board of Directors vote on it.

If I recall the Standards Director
Was close to 100k

That's Staff

Then there is the Management Company and all their people
I can't speak to Metacred
But KCI was over 2 Million

 

[Mikey P]

230k to do what?

2 million a year for mismanagment??

Just how many paid tests were getting prossessed each year?

Any idea what Wherlright is pulling in?


Good lord...

 

[Lonnie McDonald]

Mike

230k
To do exact whatever the Chairman tells him to do. Frankly it's doubtful he had any specific knowledge in the day to day operations such as grading tests. His job was Best Practice, Strategic Planning and other areas. That for the most part was damaged by the Chairman. but I would say the fee is consistent with what experts get for an organization of IICRCs size. Did he earn it?
Initially yes. Lately , certainly questionable.

The Chairman gets a 50k honorarium
Plus the travel , hotel etc expenses.
I understand that no one can figure out what he has spent but the educated guesses are more than any other Chairman in history.

I have the past Tests graded somewhere.
It's a very large number.

I missed one point
I have not signed up with ICRA.
I will be at the Experience showing my support.
I have talked to both Jim Holland and Barry Costa applauding them accomplishing what we all pushed for in IICRC education.

I further believe that IICRC should reach out and partner with ICRA in mutual education and support. It's education and virtually all the ICRA associations are Shareholders in IICRC.