Is TOPS and Low moisture cleaning Baby and Pet Safe?

Papa John

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Here's my concern.
Since there is no rinsing of the chems, does the residue left behind pose a danger to pets or kids?
What if the residue is licked off and consumed by a cat?
What are your thoughts?
What should I charge and what do you charge per square foot for this LMC method?
 

FredC

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"The dose makes the poison"

It is unlikely for even a a carpet licking cat to consume enough residue to have any negative affects

but I wouldn't say there is no danger, or trust anyone who says there isn't, without seeing studies on the long term skin contact or inhalation risks


You should charge enough that it doesn't eat at your conscience that you smeared boogers and piss everywhere while leaving a potentially harmful residue
 

Jim Pemberton

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Here's my concern.
Since there is no rinsing of the chems, does the residue left behind pose a danger to pets or kids?

The tough thing to measure is how much chemical do we leave per square foot.

A million years ago (it seems), Chemspec the company (not Legends, who owns the brand and didn't exist then), did a study comparing how much shampoo their Chemstractor left per square foot versus how much a portable with a liquid detergent in the extraction solution left.

The results showed, somewhat predictably, that there was less shampoo left per square foot with their "foam and vacuum" system than with their 50 psi portable and dual, two stage vacuums.

IF you could find such a study comparing how much encap solution was applied over a given amount of square feet, then how much was removed with a pad (let's leave "crb and run" out of this), and then compare that to the HWE system of your choice, and the rinse solution of used of your choice (if any), then you might be able to come up with an answer.

There are just a lot of "ifs" there.

I think it would have to come down to a reliable SDS and the vet who cares for the pet's feedback to come to anything close to an answer to this question.


“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”​


-John Adams
 
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What possibly may be a thing is IAQ.. The pixie dust left behind to "vacuum out" which rarely ever gets done properly will become airborne and cause respiratory problems down the line.. It is an interim cleaning method for commercial carpet..

To each their own..

I am not a doctor or make claims to be an industry professional, I just use common sense..
 
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Mikey P

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What possibly may be a thing is IAQ.. The pixie dust left behind to "vacuum out" which rarely ever gets done properly will become airborne and cause respiratory problems down the line.. It is an interim cleaning method for commercial carpet..

To each their own..

I am not a doctor or make claims to be an industry professional, I just use common sense..
can't be any worse than HWE/cpt detergent residue
 
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can't be any worse than HWE/cpt detergent residue
I'd imagine it also can't be any worse than the soaps colognes and perfumes we use daily on our bodies let alone people who smoke etc or even the air freshners used in homes and vehicles. Now by no means am I health nut but just to put it into perspective a little better I used those comparisons above lol.
 
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If a guy were to use procyon as a VLM cleaner, then, probably…


In my limited experience, I’m not sure as to another that claims child/pet friendly.
 

Mike J

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In most cases I can tell if it is a chem free house when I walk in, or when they book. Then maybe just a HWE rinse only. They know what they want. Some people ask if its safe, but have perfume plugged into the walls and all kinds of household chems. In this case, by following proper instructions of solutions, proper vacuuming and procedure, the carpets are "safer" then they were, and look great.
With the amount of different types of scenarios out there to clean, there are different ways to clean all of them. Encap is definatly one of them. It also helped me with my HWE with the focus on better vacuuming, using the multi sprayer instead of Hydorforce, post padding, and agitation for HWE, to name a few.

Good question, I questioned it myself, took the "risk" of trying it, and glad I did.

I can HWE faster than VLM in a lot of cases, but still VLM if that is the better fit for that job. Good to have both.
 
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Jim Pemberton

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I have a customer who has these three things on his business card and internet presence:

"Baby Safe"

"Earth Safe"

and

"Pet Safe"

No one calls or cares about the first two, only the last one.

I personally like "Pet Friendly" better than "Pet Safe". I think that "Pet Safe" might be too bold a statement to make, where "Pet Friendly" is a term they are used to seeing with motels, restaruants, etc.

Have a picture of you with your dog or cat (dogs seem to evoke the better response btw) in all of your sales and marketing. The fact that you are a pet loving person yourself will infer that everything you do is "pet safe" more than any technical details, SDS, etc.

One of my cleaner friends who is self-exiled here had pictures of his two dogs and him on everything, then after the one passed away, only featured the one with him. His customers picked up on it, asked, and sent sympathy cards.

When you make THAT kind of pet connection with your customers, you have customers for life.

*Full disclosure: I own no pets myself. I find pet owners look at me with a mixture of derision, pity, and puzzlement.
 

The Great Oz

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Stayed at a nice lakefront airbnb recently. The bedroom carpet looked and smelled good, but had so much encap in it that it was slippery. Best not to think about what may have been trapped below.
 

Mike J

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New to VLM, full disclosure, but If mixing 2 (two) oz of Pad Cap Pro into 2 1/2 gallons of water for hundreds, at times a thousand sq ft of carpet, how can that little leave any concerning amount of residue?
And before I VLM, I vacuum "toxic" pre existing residue like no other house cleaner has ever done. Its what we do.

Sure a hack VLM job could end up to be gross with residue, but a hack HWE job can be worse.
 

FredC

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New to VLM, full disclosure, but If mixing 2 (two) oz of Pad Cap Pro into 2 1/2 gallons of water for hundreds, at times a thousand sq ft of carpet, how can that little leave any concerning amount of residue?
how does it do any cleaning?
 
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Mike J

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how does it do any cleaning?
It just does. Remember, 86% of soil is dry particulate removed by vacuuming. Now that vacuuming is super key. Its not a freebee, you need to wash pads, other 14%.

The machine is not a "175" which I never ran anyway, but most uneducated people think it is. The actions of this Trinity Odyssey are spectacular when it comes to agitation, which I dont get when I straight up HWE.
So definatley through agitation gets it clean. And the way I set it up Pre Vac is impressive if I do say so myself. Results speak for themselves.

For the record, I still HWE and always will if im in this business. For jobs like this
IMG_8983.jpeg

I should have post padded with the Odyssey to tell you the truth, but getting 5 other rug add ons and a 15 bench cushion, I tapped out. If it browns, I get to use the Odyssey and it will fix another brown out job. Browning fixer is another miracle worker this bad ass machine is.

I can go on but Hogjowl will get pissed.
 

FredC

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lol....again if it isn't enough to leave residue (which is sort of the point of encap*) how is enough to be effective at cleaning.
 

hogjowl

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Mike:
We’ve been hearing this same BS since probably you were in grade school. Nothing new under the sun. Just new newbs to sell to.
 

Mike J

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If sand and grit makes it thru the carpet, which it does, in theory wouldnt it be saturated with soil? 100% through the carpet. So no matter what, unless your method is removing the soil that went through the carpet, there is always residue of soil. If you can clean the fiber part without any wicking of the backing and base of the fibers, it just may prove to be cleaner than HWE, in theory.
 

BIG WOOD

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Body oils attached to the carpet, dry drink syrups, petroleum based oils from shoes, and dry lotions from the bottom of feet and sand that is attached to the sticky substances are the most common soils. I’ve never buffed the carpet on these jobs but it seems more reasonable to flush it out, not buff it out
 
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I thought it was 79% dry soil? Is they using 86% from the core mathematics these days? :lol:

Vacuuming has always been a basic step in any carpet cleaning.. Encap does require vacuuming to be performed after.. Just not Ron "Turtle vac" Werner slow......Painful to watch.. :eekk:
 
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Mike J

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Body oils attached to the carpet, dry drink syrups, petroleum based oils from shoes, and dry lotions from the bottom of feet and sand that is attached to the sticky substances are the most common soils. I’ve never buffed the carpet on these jobs but it seems more reasonable to flush it out, not buff it out
So I have done both. On a few certain carpets that always gave me problems with results, buffing was better. This is not an opinion, this was happier customers telling me.
 
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Mike J

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You’re no scientist
Neither is Fauci, IMO. I will one up that, Im not even educated. I have integrity and see for myself how things work. Soil completely through the carpet is something I noticed many times over the years.

I tend to roll with faith over science for sure.
 

Mike J

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I thought it was 79% dry soil? Is they using 86% from the core mathematics these days? :lol:

Vacuuming has always been a basic step in any carpet cleaning.. Encap does require vacuuming to be performed after.. Just not Ron "Turtle vac" Werner slow......Painful to watch.. :eekk:
I was using ladder math and screwed it up. I will go with you on this. I was trying to recall from my IICRC class in 1997. I also remember the instructor telling us the success in this business is 10% equipment and 90% operator. I can see that point too now, but think its more like 15% equipment and 85% operator.
 
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hogjowl

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Neither is Fauci, IMO. I will one up that, Im not even educated. I have integrity and see for myself how things work. Soil completely through the carpet is something I noticed many times over the years.

I tend to roll with faith over science for sure.
Casting doubt on a red herring doesn’t make your “science” credible.
 

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