Lets look at this from another angle.......

[Jim Martin]

and lets keep the personal BS out of it and keep on track with performance....

how much time are you really wasting pre vacuuming compared to having to always clean out your filters.....
or having to filter your water before you dump.....

Before I ever put a glide on my wand my filters were always full of dirt and mostly fibers.....it was always restricting my vacuum and my dry times were even effected...the performance of the machine had dropped...
sometimes I would have to stop and clean the filter in the middle of a job to keep it going...or having to clean them before the next job...I also noticed way back when I started running a glide that I was getting way less fibers and dirt then I normally did before I ran a glide....So by not vacuuming and running a glide are you leaving all this on the floor...we all know the glide is great for lift and dry times but not good at picking up most things...and if it is making it out to your truck...are you standing out there in the cold trying to clean a filter for the next job because of how restricted it is...Or are you just running all day with a restricted filter and bogging down your equipment and making it and you work harder...

Speaking for myself....I pre vacuum...not for the impression for the client but for my own benefit...I run all day long with the same filter....( modified pool filter..most have seen it)...and I can clean 4 homes easy and not have to worry about it getting restricted or losing any of my performance on my equipment..I rinse my waste tank out once a month and have no build up what so ever.....that in itself is worth the extra effort to me to vacuum...

 

[hogjowl]

Without knowing what you charge per sf, how much you make per hour, and how busy you manage to stay, I really can't argue pro, or against vacuuming with you. (and I don't expect you to share such info. with me)

Heck, we all know the benefits to prevacuuming. The is absolutely no reason for anyone to argue against it from a cleaning standpoint.

The question is, how is prevacuuming affecting your financial performance?

Only you know the answer to that.

For me, to make the money I want per hour, prevauuming has limited the growth of my business. I'm just to old and slow, I guess, to be able to thoroughly prevacuum and clean, stay at $100 per hour, and be affordable for the bulk of my middle income market.

I know of one guru here, on this board, who is personally persecuting Steve Cameron today for being a hack, when this individual is starting a side company, with another truck and crew, who does exactly what Steve does.

That's why I prevacuum every job, inspect the customes vacuum, provide a 10 minute instructional demonstration for the customer how how she should vacuum and give he follow up phone calls every week informing her it's time to vacuum. Because I just can't stand the stress of being a hack.

 

[Jim Martin]

The question is, how is prevacuuming affecting your financial performance?

It is not..I find ways to cut corners on my truck (not my cleanings)...by making it as efficient as possible....

 

[hogjowl]

I'd be interested in knowing what those "cuts" are, because in my estimation, I spend between 15 to 25% longer on a job vacuuming. That's 9 to 15 minutes out of each hour vacuuming. I'm going to have to cut a hell of a lot of time with improved truck set-up, or jack my prices up pretty darn high, to cover that production cost increase.

 

[Jimmy L]

And with your vacuum spewing out dust and viruses back into the airflow of an other wise healthy home are you not polluting the home environment?


Now don't tell me a hepa filters all that dust.
A hepa vac in my opinion is so restricted it doesn't pick up anything at all.

Vacuums are dirty pieces of equipment.
You introduce dirt from other homes blowing it all around.

And don't tell me you change the bag and wipe the insides etc for every home.

Suck up the mud with your powerful truckmount machine using cleaning solutions that will attack the bad microbes living in the carpet.

And away it goes into your waste tank.

 

[Greenie]

I know of one guru here, on this board, who is personally persecuting Steve Cameron today for being a hack, when this individual is starting a side company, with another truck and crew, who does exactly what Steve does.

I don't necessarily think that is a bad idea, just catering to two different markets, there is a .25 and a .50 market in every town, and they won't cross over, might as well cover both, I jsut wouldn't want to be answering the phone for both, I've done that before (more than one Co.) it's a pita.

 

[Blue Monarch]

I think Marty is dead on here. Yes, we all know that vacuuming is beneficial. I rarely do it any more because I really don't think it's THAT beneficial in most cases.

Now, if I had a helper with me, I'd(helper) vac all the jobs. It would just be part of the show. It's amazing how fast a well tuned team can go.

 

[Cameron1]

"I know of one guru here, on this board, who is personally persecuting Steve Cameron today for being a hack, when this individual is starting a side company, with another truck and crew, who does exactly what Steve does."


I think the big guy owes me a Mea culpa.

 

[Ron Werner]

And with your vacuum spewing out dust and viruses back into the airflow of an other wise healthy home are you not polluting the home environment?

So then its a no-win situation.

Either we vacuum and remove that soil, which is dust and viruses etc that are in the carpet already, with some of it getting back into the air from which it will settle again,
Or we clean half the soil from the carpet, removing some of the dust and viruses etc, leaving the other half buried in the carpet, but not putting anything back into the air.

Which is the lesser of two weavles?

 

[hogjowl]

First of all, I reject the notion that we are only removing half the soil when we wet clean without prevacuming. I think we actually remove the majority of the dry soils, as is evidenced by our filters. The reason our filters aren't as packed with dry soil as our vacuum bags is because or TM's dilute the vast majority of that soil and it does through our filter screens. Now that's just my opinion, Ron.

And, what Jimmy is talking about is the next big issue within our industry. We will soon be advised of the dangers of cross contamination by using the same vac all day long.

 

[Ron Werner]

You might be right Marty. I was running a 59 with 3" and 2" hose, plenty of airflow, no glide, and I would get all kinds of crap in my filter to, and quite a lot of sand. But when I think about these threads, as I do on almost every job, I watch the soil I'm vacuuming out, and I ask myself honestly if I'm wasting my time or would a truck mount actually remove this once its all wet? I also watch on jobs where for one reason or another I didn't vacuum, and I watch how much effort I need to take to suck up one stupid hair, or a bit of lint etc!

My observations make me conclude, in my opinion, that TM's aren't getting out as much as they are leaving behind.

Believe me, If I didn't see an advantage to vacuuming I would drop it in an instant!! I'd lower my price to 40cents/sf, and get an extra job in per day!

Vacuuming is the unknown. I never know what's in that carpet or how long its going to take me. To steam clean it is easy. Those pictures I post, even if I was running 24 flow at 600psi, I know most of that would be left behind. It just took too damn long to extract dry! Get that stuff wet, you'll spend 1/3 more time trying to flush it all, if you even know its there to put in the effort.

 

[Rex Tyus]

First of all, I reject the notion that we are only removing half the soil when we wet clean without prevacuming. I think we actually remove the majority of the dry soils, as is evidenced by our filters. The reason our filters aren't as packed with dry soil as our vacuum bags is because or TM's dilute the vast majority of that soil and it does through our filter screens. Now that's just my opinion, Ron.

And, what Jimmy is talking about is the next big issue within our industry. We will soon be advised of the dangers of cross contamination by using the same vac all day long.

It only happened once. BUT, I actually had a lady (that moved here from California) ask me if I used the same vacuum cleaner in all the houses in the same day. I could tell she wasn't happy about that. I did inform her that I changed bags after each home and Microbanned the brush roller. She was ok with it but it was a negative. Jimmy and Marty are correct. This will be an issue in the future. If someone brought in a Vac to my home I knew had been run over dried dog poop somewhere else I would be pissed. I don't know what the solution will be but it will be an issue.

 

[The Preacher]

This will be an issue in the future. If someone brought in a Vac to my home I knew had been run over dried dog poop somewhere else I would be pissed. I don't know what the solution will be but it will be an issue.

i guess steam cleaning the carpets vacuumed with a tured brush roll isn't good enough???

PS i use a vac with attchments to suck the turds with out running over em with the brush!!!

 

[Rex Tyus]

and lets keep the personal BS out of it and keep on track with performance....

how much time are you really wasting pre vacuuming compared to having to always clean out your filters.....
or having to filter your water before you dump.....

Before I ever put a glide on my wand my filters were always full of dirt and mostly fibers.....it was always restricting my vacuum and my dry times were even effected...the performance of the machine had dropped...
sometimes I would have to stop and clean the filter in the middle of a job to keep it going...or having to clean them before the next job...I also noticed way back when I started running a glide that I was getting way less fibers and dirt then I normally did before I ran a glide....So by not vacuuming and running a glide are you leaving all this on the floor...we all know the glide is great for lift and dry times but not good at picking up most things...and if it is making it out to your truck...are you standing out there in the cold trying to clean a filter for the next job because of how restricted it is...Or are you just running all day with a restricted filter and bogging down your equipment and making it and you work harder...

Speaking for myself....I pre vacuum...not for the impression for the client but for my own benefit...I run all day long with the same filter....( modified pool filter..most have seen it)...and I can clean 4 homes easy and not have to worry about it getting restricted or losing any of my performance on my equipment..I rinse my waste tank out once a month and have no build up what so ever.....that in itself is worth the extra effort to me to vacuum...

Now to the original question. The filter thing is not motivation for me. The way the cleanco is set up it is not needed. However Vacing is not the time killer for me. The time killer is furniture when you are solo. moving blocking and tabbing takes a much higher percentage of time. If someone is looking for a discount clean I lean them towards traffic areas when possible.

HOWEVER, after 07 and 08 I have my ego in check. I am not above asking if they want it done cheap or done right. If they say cheap is the most important factor, I will say vacuum good before I get there and it will save you a few bucks. It is what it is.

 

[Rex Tyus]

[quote="Rex Tyus":2rzawh90] This will be an issue in the future. If someone brought in a Vac to my home I knew had been run over dried dog poop somewhere else I would be pissed. I don't know what the solution will be but it will be an issue.

i guess steam cleaning the carpets vacuumed with a tured brush roll isn't good enough???

PS i use a vac with attchments to suck the turds with out running over em with the brush!!![/quote:2rzawh90]


Even if you remove the "turds" dry fecal matter is still present for cross contamination on the beater bar or brush roll. Some will most certainly become airborne from the action.

 

[The Preacher]

spray em with lysol after the job, wipe the bar prior to the next use.

if the vac is filtered get some extras at Wal MArt!!!

this ain't rocket science!

 

[hogjowl]

That's not the point dumb-ass.

The point is in regards to the customers perception.

 

[cu]

not trying to start something..but ....isnt the equipment and chems we use today far better then is was years ago...we,er cleaning at 400 to 500 psi ,better air flow,more gpm, glides, 2.5 hose the tm,s that will suck a golf ball from the next state over etc.

not saying we dont need to pre vac..i dont on 95% of my jobs...either the cleaner dose it before im in or i tell mrs to do it and ask her to spend her time doing it
because i charge for mine...( plus i dont do alot of houses)

a friend of ours from the this board called me today
he gave a price on a house 1000sqft and 15 stairs
he does all 28 steps when cleaning and does nice work....his price $415
owner says no thanks to high, i would like to get it done cheaper...friend says i know a guy

im the guy, friend calls me... tells me the story over the phone ..tells me..its a easy clean
asks me how much i told him $230 to $250
i do 4 steps..pre spray ,roto if needed, rinse, get me money ask if they are happy, say thank you and leave

 

[Rex Tyus]

spray em with lysol after the job, wipe the bar prior to the next use.

if the vac is filtered get some extras at Wal MArt!!!

this ain't rocket science!

OBTUSE would be an understatement.

 

[The Preacher]

how does dry fecal matter get airborne if it's picked up by a tool and deposited to a bag or cup then dumped prior to the next job???

i guess we need to keep a vac for each job scheduled that day???

do they not want you to use the same cleaning wand that may have sucked turds on a prior job???

PS if you're suckin turded up customers maybe you need to change your marketing!!!

 

[Rex Tyus]

Danny, I could go line by line and explain but it would be a waste of my time.

 

[Raedan]

And, what Jimmy is talking about is the next big issue within our industry. We will soon be advised of the dangers of cross contamination by using the same vac all day long.

It's already an issue in the maid service industry. This topic of cross contamination was brought up on another board that I moderate on for the commercial cleaning industry several months ago. Cross contamination weather vacuuming or general cleaning is a major concern especially with the fear today of MRSA, Avian influenza, Etc. You really don't know what's in a customers carpet do you? You may pick up that turd but what's left in the fiber? Um.........How about the Bacteria.


Joe

 

[ruff]

No doubt the $19.00 vacuum cleaner you picked at Wali can do a much better vacuuming then the clients', after all it is done by a professional!

Also makes you wonder what administration was at the white house when your client last vacuumed.
Evidently, the Johnson administration.

Where do you guys work that your clients never vacuum.

Here, people actually vacuum their homes. It must be a California thingy.

 

[steve frasier]

are you using a slot, hole or hybrid glide

I don't think it affects my performance any with the amount of lift and vacuum that I have

Jim, did you start with a Vortex?

after cleaning repeat customers through the years and going from a #3 blower to a #4 blower to a #5 blower and now to the Vortex

I noticed more dirt in the filter with each up grade of machine and now that I have done a few repeat customers with the Vortex the dirt level in the filter has actually went down on the repeat cleaning reguardless of the pre vac. I think the CRB treatment combined with a hugh volume of vacuum is more important

 

[Able 1]

I will actually have to agree with Marty on this one. :shock: I would lose alot of work bumping my prices to pre-vac...

That being said, since I have gone to 2.5 hose: I HAVE to clean my filter basket after every job, before that up-grade I would clean it daily. With high flow how much could be left in the carpet(really)? I would love to pre-vac every job but I am not going to lose money for something my custy's don't want to pay for. I do have a vac. on board though...

 

[Shorty]

I think it's close to fouteen years since I had MRSA.

I was told I would never clean another carpet in my life.

I was in hospital for six months and they were considering amputating my right leg.

But, to the question and answers above, I doubt that the MRSA super bug could live for more than 24 hours outside of a host body, (the infected person), such as on a carpet, counter top, etc;

Using a well designed hepa vacuum would suck in those bugs and contain them in a container, or cup I think you call them.

I do not see how these super bugs could be expelled from said cup.

Indeed, if one were to contain these super bugs as described, the person (I feel) that would be most at risk, would be the person using the vacuum and emptying the vacuum cup.

Also, if I remember correctly, a recipient must have an open wound on their body to allow the super bug to gain entry into their system.

On the flip side, regarding not vacuuming, would there not be more wicking of deep embedded soils to the face of the carpet :?:

Or does everyone own a heavy flush, super dooper sucker, that will remove every last trace of sediment out of the carpet without doing any damage whatsoever to the carpet itself

Personally, I insist on vacuuming each and every job and I use the same vacuum, either my Dyson in residential, or Windsor 18" in commercial.

How many vacuums must one carry, and are we expected to sanitise each one after each job :?: If the vacuum can cross infect, what about your wand, rotary, vac; & solution hoses, etc; :shock:

Should not these also be sanitised :?:

Then there are the shoes you work in.....................................


Oh my God, bloody red tape and bullshit gone berserk once more to keep some shiny arsed guv-urn-mint official in a job at our expense. :x

Where will it all end and common sense prevail :?:

Ooroo,

:roll:

 

[cu]

now we,er getting deep
in the u.s. and ireland and uk if you have or had mrsa you are concidered a carrier for life , as for the infection living outside the body after 24hrs ,thats based on lab con. that does not take into account bedbugs,rugmites etc which live of dander and all the other good stuff in the carpet.

open wound is the easy way into the body for an infection ..stright to the blood stream, but also hand to mouth is also a common entry as well.

so now that everybody is worried about dust...steam cleaning of surfaces is the most common used method to kill
the infection,s that surround us everyday. along with epa reg disinfectents and cleaning agents

so maybe we should kill first and tell the custy to vac when dry or charge to return to do it

 

[Curtis Pennington]

And with your vacuum spewing out dust and viruses back into the airflow of an other wise healthy home are you not polluting the home environment?


Now don't tell me a hepa filters all that dust.
A hepa vac in my opinion is so restricted it doesn't pick up anything at all.

Vacuums are dirty pieces of equipment.
You introduce dirt from other homes blowing it all around.

And don't tell me you change the bag and wipe the insides etc for every home.

Suck up the mud with your powerful truckmount machine using cleaning solutions that will attack the bad microbes living in the carpet.

And away it goes into your waste tank.

great post Jimbob...Vac only if you have to ...nasty crap out there.

 

[Curtis Pennington]

[quote="Jim Martin":95k29obk]and lets keep the personal BS out of it and keep on track with performance....

how much time are you really wasting pre vacuuming compared to having to always clean out your filters.....
or having to filter your water before you dump.....

Before I ever put a glide on my wand my filters were always full of dirt and mostly fibers.....it was always restricting my vacuum and my dry times were even effected...the performance of the machine had dropped...
sometimes I would have to stop and clean the filter in the middle of a job to keep it going...or having to clean them before the next job...I also noticed way back when I started running a glide that I was getting way less fibers and dirt then I normally did before I ran a glide....So by not vacuuming and running a glide are you leaving all this on the floor...we all know the glide is great for lift and dry times but not good at picking up most things...and if it is making it out to your truck...are you standing out there in the cold trying to clean a filter for the next job because of how restricted it is...Or are you just running all day with a restricted filter and bogging down your equipment and making it and you work harder...

Speaking for myself....I pre vacuum...not for the impression for the client but for my own benefit...I run all day long with the same filter....( modified pool filter..most have seen it)...and I can clean 4 homes easy and not have to worry about it getting restricted or losing any of my performance on my equipment..I rinse my waste tank out once a month and have no build up what so ever.....that in itself is worth the extra effort to me to vacuum...

Now to the original question. The filter thing is not motivation for me. The way the cleanco is set up it is not needed. However Vacing is not the time killer for me. The time killer is furniture when you are solo. moving blocking and tabbing takes a much higher percentage of time. If someone is looking for a discount clean I lean them towards traffic areas when possible.

HOWEVER, after 07 and 08 I have my ego in check. I am not above asking if they want it done cheap or done right. If they say cheap is the most important factor, I will say vacuum good before I get there and it will save you a few bucks. It is what it is.[/quote:95k29obk]

You have seen the light brother.......

 

[Jim Martin]

As always ..good post Rex........truth be told 95% of the time the prep work is where you spend your time..not in the cleaning........