More Heat

[Mike Draper]

check out this new propane tank. 26 gallons.

 

[jwfoulk12]

Get as much heat as you can you can always turn it down...
Also bigger heater cores use less propane.....

Was just thinking about this Cap, if I buy a heater for my house I need to size it to my house. To big and it cycles all the time and isn't very efficient. Wouldn't the same be true with the size for my truck? If I buy a 4ht right now would it end up using more propane then the 2?

 

[Mike Draper]

I use .5 gph in my lg#4

 

[jwfoulk12]

I use .5 gph in my lg#4

Is this your only heat source? And if I continue to use my exchanger is a 2ht or 4ht gonna be more efficient. Also any info on the new igniters little giant was coming out with?

 

[Mike Draper]

yes, its my only heat source. A lg4 would work best by itself. pre-heating your water is only going to mess up the thermostat and then it wont get as high of temps. Last year I ran some hot water in my fresh tank just to see what would happen, short version is, it didnt work very great and my temps dropped considerably. a 2 ht wont heat worth a crap imo. little giant does have an optional spark igniter system like i have on mine.

 

[Captain America]

Yea get the larger one and chunk the hx...you don't need it....
Little giant 2 ht-65 btu
3 ht -120 btu
4 ht-180 btu
Kero heater -320 btu
Hx not rated but are less than the 65 btu????
Anything close to 200 btu will work fine........

 

[BradFenstermaker]

I do get a haze on my glass from the propane. Much cleaner than than my old kero burning Powermatic.

You need to think about wind at the rear location. Can you close the door while working?
Mine is at the side door and they are closed while cleaning. Rear doors are always open for fresh oxygen supply and exhaust.

 

[jwfoulk12]

My tears are always closed while working while the side doors are open.

I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around ditching a perfectly good heat exchanger making some free heat. Why do your temps become inconsistent and drop if you use preheated water? I would think that the heater wouldn't have to work as hard or run as long if the incoming water was say already 140.

 

[Mike Draper]

free heat? Do you start your truck on a cold morning and instantly start cleaning with scalding hot water? All of the guys in my town have to start their TM's and let them run for a good 10 min minimum in the winter just to get warm water.

 

[GeneMiller]

Regardless how cold it is outside I start under the furniture and in the clean part of the room. Once I get to the traffic pattern I'm plenty hot. I do every job that way even when it's hot.
I won't get into the math of how much money I've saved since ditching lawn mower engines heated with propane or diesel for that matter. Currently I burn 1.23 gals per hr on dual. I have a separate fuel tank so it's easy to calculate. Last I remember my water was cold with both. The propane burns fuel to heat up the cold water. Yes I can light it ahead but it's still burning fuel, no different than guys with a hx running their engines.

Gene

 

[Mike Draper]

what one person considers hot another doesnt. to each his own. What are you running?

 

[dgardner]

Justin, something to consider - the 2HT is not available in the high pressure version.... only 600psi.

 

[dgardner]

These are the specs:
Little giant 2 ht 65 btu
3 ht. 120 btu
4 ht. 180 btu

Cap'n - the LG's are rated in thousands of btuh - so 65,000 OR 65K - not 65. Just sayin....

 

[Captain America]

Justin you just gotta make a decision if your gonna go with fuel fire or back to hx.....
Same decision I made 10 years ago...
I had 9 out of 10 guys telling me to try a different hx and chunk the fuel fired heat.....so a listened to the 9 and the new hx didn't give me any better heat.......?This was a process of 6 months..I had a backup van.....
No one on this board is going to tell you that hx will give you more heat......just hafta pay for fuel....
I can gaur tee you with proper heat propane or kero you will finish every job faster especiaaly dirty carpets...
If you just save 5 minutes on each job...12 jobs a week is 1 hour saved...what is your time worth per hour.....
It all pays for itself with time and labor saved....also walking out of the house knowing that you did your absolute best. With the best equipment.....like rocky said
Go for it!!

 

[dgardner]

Justin, I think you may be disappointed using a LG 4HT as your only heat. You run a Zipper, which means you probably run it keyed for long periods. The 4HT will heat around 1.9 gpm with a rise of 120 degrees. Your 12 flow is just north of that gpm-wise. Your final temp will be dependent on your fresh water temp. If your fresh is, say, 60 degrees, your output temp (ATM) will be around 180 with constant flow, somewhat higher if you key a wand intermittently. Is this the heat you are looking for?

Keeping your preheat and replacing the exhaust HX with the 4HT might get you where you want....

 

[Mike Draper]

i can key my hoss and have it run at 240 at the hoss indefinitely until i run out of propane starting from water that is 43 deg. Even when its 10 degrees out and im losing all that heat in hose i run 240 permanently on my TI wand 18 flow. my water comes out of my tap at 43 degrees here. Im guessing that the little giant dgardner was using wasnt set as high as mine. On another note, i never run it that high unless its around 0 deg out. Then i run about 220 atw

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Awhile back I pushed my WM Commander Pro the limit on pressure for some commercial cleaning. My stock heat exchangers could not keep up with me turbo tile tool at 1200+ psi. I installed a flow fired Bosh propane heater to pre-heat the incoming water to the machine. Kept the machine pegged at 235 degrees. An effective alternative to a Little Giant or other types of pressure washer heaters. Good luck.

 

[dgardner]

i can key my hoss and have it run at 240 at the hoss indefinitely until i run out of propane starting from water that is 43 deg. Even when its 10 degrees out and im losing all that heat in hose i run 240 permanently on my TI wand 18 flow. my water comes out of my tap at 43 degrees here. Im guessing that the little giant dgardner was using wasnt set as high as mine. On another note, i never run it that high unless its around 0 deg out. Then i run about 220 atw

Mike, how do you measure your temps? Something is lying to you. You are saying that you get 200 degrees of rise with 2.5 gpm (ish) when the manufacturer says a 4HT will only do 120 degrees rise with 1.9 gpm. Why would LG claim such wimpy numbers if their machine will do so much more?

Also, on any LG heater setting the thermostat actually has NO effect on the temperature once the wand is keyed - it only comes into play once you let go of the trigger.... If anyone is interested I could explain why, although Les (the LG expert) has a video where he explains it well.

 

[Mike Draper]

I have a thermometer on each of my tools so I can always see where my temps are at.. It gets hotter because I adjusted the amount of gas flow in the regulator. I dont care what little giant says on there website. I also have a very large propane tank and the pressure is more stable than the small ones. That may play a small part in it.

 

[dgardner]

Well, if it's modified from factory stock then your numbers may very well be different....

According to your numbers you're getting around 240,000 btuh out of a 180,000 heater, that's a neat trick.

 

[jwfoulk12]

Thanks for all the info here guys. I didn't realize the 2ht only came in the 600 psi version. So I'm definitely gonna look harder at the 4ht. Anybody have any experience with the 2200 psi model? Is this needed? I rarely clean over 1000 psi as it is. If I install a 4ht I think I'll definitely keep my preheater. The whole purpose is to be able to maintain 220 atw on my 12 flow zipper wide open. Even that I guess isn't absolutely necessary because the majority of my work isn't gonna be running like that anyway.
I've just come to the point where I'm not satisfied with the heat output but I'm trying to prolong buying a new machine for a few years until I can save up the cash for one.

 

[jwfoulk12]

Also, on any LG heater setting the thermostat actually has NO effect on the temperature once the wand is keyed - it only comes into play once you let go of the trigger.... If anyone is interested I could explain why, although Les (the LG expert) has a video where he explains it well.[/QUOTE]


Care to elaborate or do you have a link to the video? I'm trying to learn all I can before I make that jump.

 

[dgardner]

Sure.

The LG's started life as baptistry heaters. Water was pumped from the baptism pool into the heater, heated, then sent back to the pool. When the water coming from the pool was hot enough, the thermostat would shut off the heater. The important thing to note is that the incoming water is where the temperature is measured.

When the LG is used as a carpet cleaning heater warm water never circulates back to the LG - it's a one-way trip. So - the instant you key the wand the thermostat is bathed in the incoming cool water from your fresh tank, senses the cool temperature, and fires. As long as you keep the wand keyed the thermostat sees only the incoming cool water and will never cycle or shut off.

When you let off the wand trigger the water in the header (where the thermostat lives) stops and heats up. The thermostat senses this and shuts off the burner. This prevents a big spike in temperature.

So, the LG behaves just about the same as a flow-fired kero heater in that respect. While the wand is keyed your temp is determined solely by flow rate (gpm) and incoming water temperature.

If you set the thermostat really high on a LG you just get a big spike in temp when flow stops. Once you re-key the wand that spike is flushed through the system and you're back to normal.

I don't think I am supposed to post the links to the videos - go to YouTube and search for "Little Giant Burner Maintenance", there are four parts. Pay particular attention to part 2.

Whew! Anybody still awake?

 

[jwfoulk12]

Ok so what do you guys do that use lg as your only heat source if you are cleaning a delicate fabric? From what I understand there's really not a way to regulate your temperature. It's all or nothing... Am I correct?

 

[Shane T]

A couple years ago I got rid of the blower heater on my TM(to restrictive) and most of the time I still get all the heat I need. The problem was during the winter so I added a LG #3 with a 10 gal belly tank. I added a by-pass valve so when not using the LG the heated water does not run through it. When I need added heat I turn down the machine heat to 200 and turn the valve and plug the solution line into my second quick connect. Works great, I go more than a month without filling the propane tank.

 

[dgardner]

Justin,
If the flow is really low (as with an upholstery tool) the heater may be able to heat the water faster than it is coming in, and will cycle. It all depends on your exact tool flow and fresh temp. YMMV.

 

[Captain America]

Justin I believe you will have plenty of heat for the zipper....
Something about the zipper seams to contain heat a little better....
I actually turn my heat down about 10 degrees and it does the same as an open wand....
I believe the wand with open spray loses a little heat or maybe the zipper just cleans better....
Anything close to 200 degrees with trigger down and continual flow will be plenty....
I actually clean resturants less than 200 but I use a 13-14 flow rate

 

[jwfoulk12]

check out this new propane tank. 26 gallons.
View attachment 525

Any idea where to get this tank?

 

[Shane T]

Any idea where to get this tank?

That looks nice. I don't carry a spare tire under my van so it looks like it would fit nicely there.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Any idea where to get this tank?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-Liter-14...Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c428b88a&vxp=mtr