My business was Hi Jacked... Advice?

[Walt]

I got 6 calls today for a living social deal that I didn't sign up for. (people were leaving the Living Social website and googling us to find out the details)

As it turns out, Eco Clean Carpet Cleaning out of Issaquah WA decided to move into town and are now serving Portland Oregon. So far they have sold 66 "deals" on Living Social. I spoke with the owner and explained why this is a real problem and that I was willing to go full court on this. Not sure if he believes me, but I can assure you I will. I have no idea how someone can just put up a deal, without a business license or a registered dba?

So far I've talked to Living Social and they are "looking into it." And I've spoken with a lawyer, who basically said I should be prepared to spend some money on this.

I was having a pretty nice day today until I found all this out.

Advice?

 

[joe harper]

Sounds life you just got 6 FREE customers... LIKE!

 

[Able 1]

Did you buy into the Eco Clean name?

 

[Walt]

Sounds life you just got 6 FREE customers... LIKE!

The deal is for $59 (not my cup of tea) - though we did book one at regular price

 

[Walt]

Did you buy into the Eco Clean name?

About eight years ago I had this amazing and original idea to rename my company Eco Clean. Unfortunatley, dozens of others had the same amazing and original idea. yes, I really clean up pet shit for a living Dad..

I spoke to a trade mark lawyer about it and he said that the name was too generic and that anyone could use it as long as they were far enough away as to not be mistaken with us. Not a problem since I have zero interest in expanding.

 

[Able 1]

Yeah, there was a local cc company that changed there name after 35 year service to "Eco clean", and he asked me what I thought, I said "that is a waste of everything you have done" he said "REALLY?" Now they are back to the original name. I do believe there was someone selling rights to that name though??

 

[bob vawter]

ya ...i was thinking about Rainbow.......
i've always kinna like that name..........

 

[rhyde]

That sucks walt!

It looks like his number is a local land line (503) 451-3986 is he here or using someone local to do the work? If he's operating in the state registered business he's not paying business taxes


http://www.filinginoregon.com/pages/bus ... _mean.html


One more thing;.. a little late but we registered names close to ours
renaissance rug cleaning
renaissance carpet cleaning
renaissance cleaners

 

[dgargan]

How do you know he doesn't have a business license ? when I did a living social deal they required proof of insurance and they checked with the BBB to see if there were any complaints.

Doesn't sound like you have a case. He is just expanding into your area and has the same name as you which does suck. I also have a guy in town that uses the name Eco Clean but is in the pressure washing business. My name is Eco clean carpet solutions and there is nothing I can do.

 

[bensurdi]

I know the guy all to well.... He bought one of my trucks from me. That's ALL they do is groupon/living social deals . Thats a huge pain in the ass Walt. Especially because you're just minding your own business and than he pops out of no where and now you need to "spend some money" to make him go away!

 

[Becker]

Many years ago I had a guy open up under same name about 25 miles away.

He was a complete asshole. I did my best to make his life hell.
Worest part was he had 4 guys doing nothing but tetemarketing.
He was not listed in books or online. So I got all the calls asking to be placed on a do not call list.

 

[Walt]

I know the guy all to well.... He bought one of my trucks from me. That's ALL they do is groupon/living social deals . Thats a huge pain in the ass Walt. Especially because you're just minding your own business and than he pops out of no where and now you need to "spend some money" to make him go away!

Hey Ben, thanks for the info - it's what I suspected. Do you have his personal info? Could you PM me with his Name, address and cell? He stated his name was Casey Sullivan, but I haven't verified that. I have his business phone number, but he won't pick up for me anymore.

Thanks,

Walt

 

[idreadnought]

walt,

You do have a case. Your business name even though it is not trademarked has legal identity to it in your area because of continued use.

The interpretation to the law is whether the conflict would cause confusion to the customer. In this case it already has and is defiantly cause for legal action.

First step to do is to have a lawyer send a cease and desist letter to the company. Then if the action continues then a lawsuit.

Good news is that the law is very clear what the financial penalty to the other company would be. By confusing the customer they will owe you all financial gain they received be the confusion plus legal damages.

IF there were loopholes in doing business like this more companies would do it. There are not and that is why you don't hear about it happening. The financial risk is too high for a company to behave like this.

I assure you I know what I am talking about. I consulted an attorney for several hours on this issue for another business venture.

 

[idreadnought]

You don't need him to pick up. Buy the living social job and have him come to your house to do the cleaning. That will be some very convincing evidence in court.

 

[rhyde]

How do you know he doesn't have a business license ?

I checked our state business registry there is no Casey Sullivan registered in the state of Oregon to do business .


PAUL EATON
ECO CARPET CLEANING
648 COZY WAY
WOODBURN,OR 97071


CASCADE ECO CLEAN
21100 SW OREGON ST #109
SHERWOOD, OR 97140

FRANCESCA BRADDOCK
ECO CLEANING SERVICES
510 SE NAHELAM ST #11
PORTLAND, OR 97202

 

[renegade_cowboy]

This Guy?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/eco-clean-carpe ... e-issaquah

 

[Becker]

Search his biz name on the Washington state department of revenues website.

 

[Derek]

I have his business phone number, but he won't pick up for me anymore.

dial *67 first...does wonders.

 

[steve frasier]

I did sub work for a guy doing work in Oregon, Idaho, Washington and northern California. His company name was Floor Dr.

There was a guy doing business in a couple of counties in oregon with the same business name. He tried to by the name from him but no luck. He ended up renaming the company to Floor dr of the Northwest

good luck Walt

I know an Attorney that does good work at a reasonable price

 

[Walt]

Search his biz name on the Washington state department of revenues website.

Didn't find anything. Weird. I'm wondering if he has a DBA in Washington or is filing under a different name.

I did sub work for a guy doing work in Oregon, Idaho, Washington and northern California. His company name was Floor Dr.

There was a guy doing business in a couple of counties in oregon with the same business name. He tried to by the name from him but no luck. He ended up renaming the company to Floor dr of the Northwest

good luck Walt

I know an Attorney that does good work at a reasonable price

Thanks Steve. Does he handle intellectual property? I'd be interested in the phone number.

I was able to find out some information about him. And I'm hoping to resolve this very soon.

 

[Becker]

Your welcome.

http://whois.domaintools.com/ecocarpetandtile.com

 

[Becker]

He is a busy man, no wonder he does not answer your calls.

http://condocompare.com/about-team.aspx

He is more than likely operating under a INC in your area. I'm not familiar with OR LIC etc.

 

[steve g]

Search his biz name on the Washington state department of revenues website.

Didn't find anything. Weird. I'm wondering if he has a DBA in Washington or is filing under a different name.

I did sub work for a guy doing work in Oregon, Idaho, Washington and northern California. His company name was Floor Dr.

There was a guy doing business in a couple of counties in oregon with the same business name. He tried to by the name from him but no luck. He ended up renaming the company to Floor dr of the Northwest

good luck Walt

I know an Attorney that does good work at a reasonable price

Thanks Steve. Does he handle intellectual property? I'd be interested in the phone number.

I was able to find out some information about him. And I'm hoping to resolve this very soon.

the real question is how much money do you and this guy have. If the guy is determined I could see you spending 70-100k just to get started with this. lawyers that handle this type of law are the big fish in the pond and charge ALOT more than say a divorce attorney. it also could take a couple years to get to the bottom of it. this all depends on how determined the guy is.

I would call the guy up and say look we have a bit of a problem but I wanna work it out. tell him I know you have spent some money out here with your name and all, how about $1,000 that should pay for a name change and the marketing efforts to change your name just in my area. if that doesn't work I would file suit and hope like hell that scares him into changing it. BTW I think Eco-clean............well lets just say it wouldn't be my first choice in business names. don't ask me how I know all this legal crap.

 

[randy]

Hi-jacketed is the wrong word. In fact your new competitor may very well have more legal standing to the name than you do. Incorporating or registering a DBA name doesn't give you exclusive legal rights to a name. Sure I know some well meaning clerk at the courthouse might tell us that when registering that DBA or maybe someone told you that once you incorporate or LLC the business, the name is legally yours. That couldn't be more wrong.

Go see a trademark attorney immediately and trademark the name before he does. Fact: someone can LLC or incorporate a business under the same name as you IN ANOTHER STATE and then operate in "your" local area legally. If they then go trademark the name it's theirs legally in all 50 states and they can make you stop using it. Here is the shocker even if it's your last name.
Definitely don't call him or tell him he has to stop using "your" name. Trademark it and then write him.
Best of luck

 

[Walt]

Hi-jacketed is the wrong word. In fact your new competitor may very well have more legal standing to the name than you do. Incorporating or registering a DBA name doesn't give you exclusive legal rights to a name. Sure I know some well meaning clerk at the courthouse might tell us that when registering that DBA or maybe someone told you that once you incorporate or LLC the business, the name is legally yours. That couldn't be more wrong.

Go see a trademark attorney immediately and trademark the name before he does. Fact: someone can LLC or incorporate a business under the same name as you IN ANOTHER STATE and then operate in "your" local area legally. If they then go trademark the name it's theirs legally in all 50 states and they can make you stop using it. Here is the shocker even if it's your last name.
Definitely don't call him or tell him he has to stop using "your" name. Trademark it and then write him.
Best of luck

I spoke with an IP lawyer and according to him, I have local common law trademark based on years of advertising with the name. Also, that Eco Clean is too generic of a term to successfully TM and defend. That all said, that's some good advice.

 

[rhyde]

Fact: someone can LLC or incorporate a business under the same name as you IN ANOTHER STATE and then operate in "your" local area legally. If they then go trademark the name it's theirs legally in all 50 states and they can make you stop using it. Here is the shocker even if it's your last name.

Not True, it's not cut and dry . look up the term "Common Law Trademark Rights" , common law rights to a trademark are determined based upon the extent of the trademark's actual use Walt has been using the name for 8 years.

http://www.trademarkia.com/faqs/what-ar ... ights.aspx


Additionally, If he's operating his business in the state but not registered he has no tax ID, you can't pay corporate income tax with out a tax id and you can't get one of those without registering your business in the state and that's illegal. It seems unclear if this guy is running a truck here or subbing the work out to a local cleaner?

 

[randy]

Very true, but eventually all trademark cases are decided in FEDERAL COURT which has the established practice of ignoring common law and deciding the case based on Federal trademark law. Common law may help you in state court or your local county circuit but if the "hi-jacker" trademarks the name and files suit in Federal court (which trademark plaintiffs always do) you will lose, guaranteed. You don't know if they will issue a TM until you file and get an answer one way or the other. So ignore the advice you were given and file for one. It's not that expensive of a filing fee and can be done by online services for a nominal service charge . I would attempt trademarking the name for carpet cleaning. In other words don't go too broad in your application and try trademarking it for cleaning services, cleaning & restoration services, cleaning products etc. Sometimes people get carried away and their trademark is turned down for that reason.

Always remember, Federal law trumps state & local law . Common law is (unfortunately for you in this issue) nearly a joke of an argument to assert in trademark litigation.

Perfect example of Federal law conflicting with State law: The state laws passed making Obama care illegal in that particular State, a worthless political move with zero legal merit. That also is very unfortunate in my opinion.

I really hope this works out for you. I know you have worked hard establishing your business and these little annoying issues no one needs especially if he does Groupon. That could soil the name to the point that you would be better off finding another name. Best of luck.

 

[Mikey P]

Walt, how about changing you name to Pet Package carpet and tile and moving on with your life?

 

[John Buxton]

It's really unfair that if you sue and win you still have to foot the bill. The loser should have to pay for both lawyers.

 

[Walt]

Walt, how about changing you name to Pet Package carpet and tile and moving on with your life?

Actually, Greg Cole contacted me and had some really good advice on approaching the guy in a friendly manner. He also had insight on what to do if it became unfriendly. Also, Ben Surdi contacted me with useful information on how to contact him.


As it stands the other Eco Clean has agreed to add a regional modifier to his name such as Eco Clean Washington. That should alleviate 80% of the who's who problem. He also said he would consider changing his name entirely, but hasn't decided how to do that since he has an established company near Seattle.