My take on groupon different than the make no money room

[XTREME1]

I think that Groupon and and the types are devaluing the product or service they claim to help sell. It makes price the determining factor. I chose a business model of winning over customers with quality and price point, groupon goes straight on price only Rather tha win customers over they present false margins and price point where people will no longer understand the cost of doing business. What that means is new customers(younger, urban, educated comsumers) will forever know the cost as presented by groupon. They will think the groupon price is more like the actual price driving prices down all around. It is the illegal immigrant of websites. When a restaurant knows it is going out they ramp up sales of gift certificates for cash flow, I can see businesses doing that with groupon. I can say from our industry it is a perfect fit for a bait and switch who has no intentions of honoring the price like I do and many others do. My prices aren't subject to some of the far out charges other companies throw out there and my guess is the ones offering the deal are looking to get into the house and fuckover the homeowner and run with the $$$$. They don't have a personal face on their business and hide behind advertising and computers.

I think loyalty will be out the window and people will not buy again unless the price is adjusted downwards or if they did run into a bait and switch it will turn them off top our services in general hurting all the true business people around them. Just like the "local Guys" who aren't actually local putting a black eye on the rest of us.

Groupon has done what it is supposed to do, set it self up to make a windfall but longterm success isn't in the future for groupon because companies have to cheat lie and steal to be successful and that leads to BS internet people rather than real businesses

Small businesses are often dumb in their marketing, so Groupon probably benefits from some businesses not realizing discounts hurt their exact business, or overpaying for Groupon promotions or for yellowpages ads. But companies like google, groupon, yellow pages all prey these business knowing they will overpay ofor adwords or cut discount so bad thinking the cash flow will save them. With a 1 time a year service you are cannibilaizing your business by using groupn, it may work if your a weekly service but not 6 months to a year plus. Groupon will actually work to the detriment of people who expect to get in and upsell because the customer will feel ripped off knowing they paid $50 and got charged more than double, whilke the business made no real money they have a negative custoemr talking to their friends.

My opinion is groupon should help businesses let the customer know what they should be doing rather than here is what it is and here is how much it would have been. A much more comprehensive posting of real world price and cost analysis letting the consumer know that this business is probably going to lose money to meet them.

 

[Brian R]

Come on Greg...you made that sound pretty but is that really what it's all about?

It's about getting a potential customer to try out a business for less than they would have paid to begin with.

Whether you give Groupon a $1000.00 a month to advertise or 50% of the already low ticket...you'll be paying for that customer.

I know a smart fellow like yourself doesn't expect Groupon to advertise for free do you?

And as far as loyalty and creating perceptions in the consumer's minds...I just don't believe it.

This is just a backdoor to the frontdoor.

At least....and listen to this close

At least Groupon actually delivers customers to you and never makes you pay for NOT getting customers.

And we've all experienced that with other marketing efforts....all of us.



All of us.

 

[XTREME1]

they do take a percentage of every customer you get and they have changed the rules on unredeemed or are going to correct?

I built my business on direct marketing with prices that were marketed pretty close to what i charge anyhow and they never came back to me asking for more because I had a really good month. It was always about $1,000 a month to garner atleast $6,000 in business. If you did that with groupon you would be at 2-3g's. That is why proposed my marketing competition to see what worked and what the return was expected to be for us in the MMM room. No one got it so I moved on.

The only gurantee you get with groupon is a loss of money

Brian I know you don't want to admit but you are just a bait and switch operator trying to drive people to your business and for the record I don't give a crap. When the only thing you have to say about groupon is upsells, we all know what that means. B&S give me the numbers of your top 5 techs and I will have my cleaning lady call them to talk to them and translate

 

[Brian R]

Find one review of me anywhere on the internet that accuses me of bait and switch

Fredcc can find it if it's out there.

Go to the BBB, go anywhere.

I've said before...we do quality work and no high pressure sales...ever.

You just don't understand how a business can do volume work at a decent price and still do quality work.

It's always been separated in our industry...or at least in the "minds" of our industry.

The closed minded, non adventurous, scared, content and bitchy person will always find something wrong with me because I do things differently.

If you keep doing what you're doing ....you'll keep getting what your getting.

 

[XTREME1]

You just don't understand how a business can do volume work at a decent price and still do quality work.

Do you know who your talking to? I built my business on that premise. I don't need anyone to find anything on the internet for me. You write about upselling and that you will make money off the upsells to justify it. You tell us.

Who the hell prescrubs every job and has a website named 25dollarsaroom.com? and you throw out I don't understand. You are dumber than I thought

So you trust the BBB? Good I had a complaint against them for years and they never responded but there is no way to get a ranking on them but they can rank others if you pay enough>

I do any upselling prior to the job and I go to the home and do the work. I don't like to apply pressure and make the woman(usually) uncormfortable in her home

 

[Brian R]

You just don't understand how a business can do volume work at a decent price and still do quality work.

Do you know who your talking to? I built my business on that premise. I don't need anyone to find anything on the internet for me. You write about upselling and that you will make money off the upsells to justify it. You tell us.

Who the hell prescrubs every job and has a website named 25dollarsaroom.com? and you throw out I don't understand. You are dumber than I thought

So you trust the BBB? Good I had a complaint against them for years and they never responded but there is no way to get a ranking on them but they can rank others if you pay enough>

I do any upselling prior to the job and I go to the home and do the work. I don't like to apply pressure and make the woman(usually) uncormfortable in her home

For the record I think the BBB is a total scam....it was just an example.

An upsell is just making more money on the job by doing other or more services.

It doesn't mean a "high pressure" sell or making anyone feel uncomfortable in their home.

By the way...you have www.25dollarsaroom.com and yet your minimum is what?


I bet you a dollar to a donut you don't go in and do 1 room for $25.00 and leave right?

In your description THAT would be bait and switch right?

 

[XTREME1]

no but my pricing is on my website and upfront 200 sq ft a room $45 first room 25 each additional

 

[Brian R]

no but my pricing is on my website and upfront 200 sq ft a room $45 first room 25 each additional

Well then that's not 25 dollars a room then is it genius?


www.45dollarsforthefirstroomandTHEN25dollarsaroom.com

I think that domain name is available.

 

[XTREME1]

so your argument was that I didn't understand quality at a reasonable price and you have 3 rooms for less than $95 doing the same type of work? or are you deflecting or 2 rooms for $70

 

[Brian R]

Hey, the Groupon will say $99.00 and we'll do the work for that.
There are of course sqft limitations.

So I guess we are ALL bait and switchers now. :roll:

 

[Brian R]

I'll be back to play later...I need to take my daughter to her friends house.

 

[XTREME1]

so you have a 175 on every truck and they are prescrubbing every job and not up charging? So you are doing the qulaity work you say I don't understand at a price that compares to $70 for 2 rooms or 4 rooms for $120?

That is what I thought

 

[Brian R]

We'll scrub when needed.

 

[XTREME1]

so all your "techs" carry a 175
?

 

[ruff]

I am not sure why this is a Brian issue only.

The story goes:
They asked the Chinese premier what he thought about the French revolution. Was it good for the people?
His answer was: "I don't know. Too early to tell."

No doubt Groupn brings the clients.
Will they stick?
Can you wow them with your services and convert them to be normal price paying clients?
Will they run to next company offering even a steeper discount?

My personal thoughts are that you got them because they were price shopping. No one looks for quality on Groupon, they look for prices.
So you should not be surprised when they leave for cheaper price, as I think they will.

Do I know for sure?
No. Too early to tell.

If you built your business so that you can make money off Groupon clients.
Power to you. You are a better man than the rest of us.

 

[XTREME1]

No one said it is a Brian issue. I posted my take on groupon and he doesn't have room in his head for a different opinion

 

[Brian R]

I thrive on different opinions...but I know what I know.

I've done Groupon and I benefited from it. I've done 3 or 4 repeats from Groupon in the last week from last year.
I just did that 4500 sqft house myself.

What I don't know is if I will get too many sold and be completely overwhelmed.

Even though I look forward to being overwhelmed, I'm sure some of you will say "I told you so".

I'm saying "I told you so" now.

This could be the biggest mistake or the best decision I've made....we COULD be making mountains out of mull hills too.

I might only sell a few.



Remember ...it's just carpet cleaning guys. Don't go all ape shit on me.

 

[Ken Snow]

I thrive on different opinions...but I know what I know.

I've done Groupon and I benefited from it. I've done 3 or 4 repeats from Groupon in the last week from last year.
I just did that 4500 sqft house myself.

What I don't know is if I will get too many sold and be completely overwhelmed.

Even though I look forward to being overwhelmed, I'm sure some of you will say "I told you so".

I'm saying "I told you so" now.

This could be the biggest mistake or the best decision I've made....we COULD be making mountains out of mull hills too.

I might only sell a few.



Remember ...it's just carpet cleaning guys. Don't go all ape shit on me.

No Brian, it is bb drama and guys needing to wag there thingy to cover up other insecurities. Don't be confusing it with business or carpet cleaning. :mrgreen:

 

[ruff]

Ken,
I am not sure what you are referring to, at least with my post.

We (or I at least) are discussing something in theory. Brian, no doubt is using it in practice and he deserves the credit for keeping an open mind and being dynamic.
Also there are very different business models involved.

Brian's is subcontracting, no expenses in having and maintaining equipment. In short he is a marketing company. He gets clients to carpet cleaners that can't or won't, or help them stay busy.
Yours is a company that has been there for a very long time. Great name recognition. High volume, short routs, efficiency and also getting profits from all sides of the pie(restoration, cleaning , orientals etc.)
Mine is an owner operator.

What works for one may not work for the other!

There is, for some, a legitimate concern of devaluing our services.
Personally I think that these are fads. They come and they go.
The good companies stick to what they do well and that is what destinguishes them from the rest.

Everybody can talk the talk. The good ones can also walk.

........................and sing on the ocasional good day

 

[XTREME1]

Ken sorry for giving my take on groupon and helping warn people who may want to do it and I wrote my piece without mentioning any companies. I am not sure how that has anything to do with drama.

I will tell you he keeps changing his groupon story the same way he changes the need for Full Circle. People who aren't bright enough to do their research will become one of the many small business horror stories of groupon.

here is one business that just about went out of business

We were bombarded the first weekend after our feature because our feature had come out a month late, and unfortunately coincided with the Kenton Library’s grand opening. Over the six months that the Groupon is valid, we met many, many wonderful new customers, and were so happy to have them join the Posies family. At the same time we met many, many terrible Groupon customers… customers that didn’t follow the Groupon rules and used multiple Groupons for single transactions, and argued with you about it with disgusted looks on their faces, or who tipped based on what they owed (10% of $0 is zero dollars, so tossing in a dime was them being generous). Or how about the lady that came in the day of Groupon (though you’re not technically allowed to use them until the day after) and asked for the Groupon discount without an actual Groupon in hand because she preferred to give us all $6 rather than half of it to Groupon. While the idea is noble, this causes mass confusion among the staff and makes it seem that without commitment, anyone should be able to get anything off of our menu for 50% off.

After three months of Groupons coming through the door, I started to see the results really hurting us financially. There came a time when we literally could not make payroll because at that point in time we had lost nearly $8,000 with our Groupon campaign. We literally had to take $8,000 out of our personal savings to cover payroll and rent that month. It was sickening, especially after our sales had been rising. Sure, maybe thinking of it as just marketing may seem justified, but anyone that knows me well knows that I would never pay more than $100 for advertising, much less $8,000, because I don’t believe that regular advertising had much return on investment at all. So the experience jaded me, and the interactions with the few bad Groupon customers we had jaded our staff. After all of this, I find myself not even willing to buy Groupons because I know how it could hurt a business (side note: service industry businesses do quite well with features like this because it is just the cost of time – you are not paying for a product for resale. Resale, in my opinion, get hit the hardest).

In short, to dear Lucinda and anyone else that comes in with a Groupon in hand, please know that our respectful decline of your coupon is not personal. It’s because we cannot afford to lose any more money on this terrible decision I made, and the only saving grace we had was an expiration date.

 

[XTREME1]

here is a nice excerpt saying that you don't put a loser out there to try and upsell, do one that makes money
Groupon and its many imitators have been facing a rising tide of negative publicity over the past few weeks, the gist of which is that Groupons are terrible for small businesses.

The stories are all pretty much the same: business owners sign up for a deal that would lose them money in the hopes of upselling and bringing customers back for full price purchasers. Instead, they find themselves overwhelmed by swarms of rude bargain hunters who crowd out full-price customers, refuse to spend anything beyond the face value of the coupon, and are never seen again.

A study out of Rice University has added some fuel to the fire, finding that 42% of businesses that have run Groupons wouldn't do so again, and concluding that there is reason to doubt "the sustainability of social promotions as they currently exist."

Don't hold your breath.

Some businesses are definitely getting creamed by Groupons, but that isn't a problem with the Groupon model, it's a problem with how they're using it.

Two-thirds of the businesses in the study reported making a profit off of their offers. The lesson for the other third isn't that Groupon is broken, it's that they did a below average job putting together an offer.

Groupon is a business. If you offer up a massive discount that its users will love, and that will absolutely destroy you, it will happily accept. But that doesn't mean Groupon is bad for businesses. It just means you're doing it wrong.

 

[ruff]

Greg,
Anybody on this board that does not weigh any advise given here, through the filter of vested interest should have their head checked.

It does not necessarily mean that people lie, they just have a vested interest.

So maybe the people who do follow advise blindly should have to deal with the consequences.
Their success or failure may hasten the process of natural selection.

It's organic

 

[XTREME1]

I wasted alot of money advertising when I first started and would hate to see people fall into the trap. I think my second year I spent like $26,000 on stupid stuff rather than putting a good plan in place. it seems when I show the pitfalls no it all jumps and and says he knows better.

That is why everyone is leaving the MMM room it is counter productive because you give an opinion and it breaks out into this shitfest. They really need someone running a marketing room whom people know the person knows what they are doing or even a comittee like I said before.

 

[Doug Cox]

You just don't understand how a business can do volume work at a decent price and still do quality work.

Do you know who your talking to? I built my business on that premise. I don't need anyone to find anything on the internet for me. You write about upselling and that you will make money off the upsells to justify it. You tell us.

Who the hell prescrubs every job and has a website named 25dollarsaroom.com? and you throw out I don't understand. You are dumber than I thought

So you trust the BBB? Good I had a complaint against them for years and they never responded but there is no way to get a ranking on them but they can rank others if you pay enough>

I do any upselling prior to the job and I go to the home and do the work. I don't like to apply pressure and make the woman(usually) uncormfortable in her home

Let's also keep in mind that Brian likes to "dryclean" berbers, just like his partner in crime, Greg Cole. Oh, and BTW Brian- There is "No Way" you can do a complete job in all situations with the system you use, but you know what..............................................I Can.

 

[Brian R]

Some of you guys kill me with your closed mindedness.

You act like there is an absolute to every situation.

How many dept stores failed back in the day?...was it the "wrong" way to do it?

Doug, I guarantee my "system" will clean more situations than yours.

Greg, my story has stayed the same with Groupon...what has changed?

It never ceases to amaze me the words you and others put in my "mouth" and how you twist my words around to fit your "fit".

Greg, you had some very good remarks and concerns...but you also come across as very accusatory and presumptuous.

Will you believe what you read from them or what you read from me? I've never lied to you.

And remember this, stats and stories "show" exactly what the author WANT'S to show.

 

[Brian R]

I should probably take a post to commend Ofer on HIS posts. I think he comes across as very level headed.

Thanks


PS. And of course Ken is the voice of reason...as usual.

 

[Brian R]

And remember this, stats and stories "show" exactly what the author WANT'S to show.

quoted for posterity

I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothng but the truth...so help me God.
Harper will understand that one.

I think it would be funny as hell if everyone here turned out to be right.....this time.
The best thing about being wrong.....you've just learned something new.


This a risk...and a pretty big one...We'll see what happens.

 

[Doug Cox]

OK Brian, I will give you the fact that you can clean more than 10 stories up in the air or more than .....say 500 ft. (and thats lowball) away from the nearest road. BFD- I have enough work on the ground without having to do a "Willy Parsons".

Please list any other situations I might have missed. You might just teach me something.

 

[Brian R]

Doug...If I need something done...I just call the local guy that does it. !gotcha!

I'm like Thought and you're like Hercules

Hercules was stronger and faster....but thought only had to think about it and it was done.

Just yankin yer chain a little.

 

[XTREME1]

I am not accusatory. My original post was written from reading the good and the bad about groupon, you yourself say you need to upsell when you get in a home and I pointed that out without mentioning any companies or types of businesses. The fact remains after a number of studies it comes down to this, any deal that isn't going to make a profit after expenses including labor will fail and the return rate is 15% and dealing with groupon customers has been a hassle.

This a risk...and a pretty big one...We'll see what happens.

?
You say it is a risk but in another thread you talk about how successful it was and that it isn't a risk because it isn't costing you anything, how is that a risk?

This thread had nothing to do with you but you made it about you and again instead of a legitimate discussion on groupon it became how much smarter than everyone you seem to thing you are.

A quick note on loyalty one of the studies bore out exactly what FCC said the otherday about loyalty and that the mod sales of groupon garner loyalty to the deals with groupon not the businesses, stating it was like an addiction where people couldn't even remember the name of the company whenit is all said and done.