My take on groupon different than the make no money room

[Ken Snow]

Pretty much agree with what you said Greg, discounting the insults to Brian. I think Groupon can work for a cleaning business that is trying to create a brand- which I think is exactly what Brian is trying to do.

 

[XTREME1]

Ken I am going to have to reread my post , could you point out the insults or is brian so vain that he thought the first post was about him and not groupon.

 

[Ken Snow]

How about the one in your last post? I am not going to re-read any and point them out, they are pretty much in every post after the first one if I recall correctly.

 

[Royal Man]

Ken I am going to have to reread my post , could you point out the insults or is brian so vain that he thought the first post was about him and not groupon.

You can't help yourself can you.


The constant attacks really degrade this board.

Too many post just become pissing matches.

 

[XTREME1]

Whom pointing out someones vanity that they have admitted to us now an insult ?

If you disagree with multiple studies and my opinion yoakim fine but you are part of the problem
You guys hate any different opinion

 

[Brian R]

I am not accusatory. My original post was written from reading the good and the bad about groupon, you yourself say you need to upsell when you get in a home and I pointed that out without mentioning any companies or types of businesses. The fact remains after a number of studies it comes down to this, any deal that isn't going to make a profit after expenses including labor will fail and the return rate is 15% and dealing with groupon customers has been a hassle.

This a risk...and a pretty big one...We'll see what happens.

?
You say it is a risk but in another thread you talk about how successful it was and that it isn't a risk because it isn't costing you anything, how is that a risk?

This thread had nothing to do with you but you made it about you and again instead of a legitimate discussion on groupon it became how much smarter than everyone you seem to thing you are.

A quick note on loyalty one of the studies bore out exactly what FCC said the otherday about loyalty and that the mod sales of groupon garner loyalty to the deals with groupon not the businesses, stating it was like an addiction where people couldn't even remember the name of the company whenit is all said and done.

I "need" to upsell in every house...why am I there? To give it away? Come on Greg...this is business. If you have a good product or service you shouldn't be ashamed to offer it.

What I mean by "risk" is if I sell over 1000 and can't keep up with demand...it could be a problem. I can't do them all myself and at the end of the day...I'm the only one I can depend on....I don't care how "good" or trustworthy a Tech is.
But like said...such is business.

This thread had everything to do with me because I've been so hot on Groupon lately...I've been saying it's a good thing...and you and others have said the opposite. And that's cool....it's what make this board the greatest.

 

[XTREME1]

We run our businesses different. I created a price point where I can make a living and don't need to put a below cost price(which hurts the industry as whole) to get into the home for the pressure sale. That is the bait and switch, offering a price to get in the door and pressuring to make your money. I have no problem with what cole and you do or anyone else, it is a business but don't p[retend and act like your doing the same type of work as some of us. It is okay to be what you are, embrace it

 

[Brian R]

Do you not read my posts...or do you just not believe them?


One more time because I like you Greg

1. No high pressure sales

2. This does not hurt out industry

3. No Bait n Switch


I surely embrace what I do and how I run my company...if I didn't, I wouldn't come here and tell it to everyone at risk of being bashed.
I do things differently than most...and yes I'm proud of that.

I firmly believe that I help other cleaners get work and make money...My sub in Sacramento just leased out my company from me because he was making so much money working with me.

He will hopefully continue to provide work for himself and the other cleaners in the area.

I've started 2 (actually 3) other areas where I hope to do the same thing....but a lot quicker this time. lol

 

[XTREME1]

Here is the definition of bait and switch

a deceptive way of selling that involves advertising a product at a very low price in order to attract customers who are then persuaded to switch to a more expensive product

such as offering a very low price looking to upsell when you get there.

 

[Brian R]

The difference between a bait n switcher and myself is this.

If they want the job for that price...the get it with no hassles and we still do quality work.

 

[Brian R]

The last time we did Groupon...we did plenty of jobs for the $79.00 price.

But yes...we DID offer them more...always.

Even if it was just Scotchgard.

 

[XTREME1]

no where in the definition does it say hassle it says persuaded. maybe the more blatant news stories skewed your thinking but the definition fits

lets say 300 sold
$79 for 3 rooms $23,700 (which is your regular price so there is no discount, so that is an FTD type fraud)
($39.50) (11,850) to Groupon
39.50 11,850 Left
($10.00) ($3,000) to you for phone services, phones, scheduling, time, invoicing processing, taxes insurance.
($29.50) ($8850) to the techs for equipment, travel, operation time, clean chems and spotters etc and taxes insurance


so you Paid $11,850 or $39.50 per customer to already start in the whole. You said your guys have unmarked vans with truckmounts and I beleive it is something like $48.00 to run a truckmount per hour with depriation and repair and initial cost so they are paying $18.50 for the job you already paid 39.50 to acquire and you don't think this is ripe for pressure sales?

Before you start the job you and the other people you are relying(so if your not getting screwed you better bet the little guy your subbing to is) are in it for $58.00 with the cost of taxes, chems, .

I want to point out this thread had nothing to do with you, it was about groupon and you made it about you. I am just warning carpet cleaners to steer clear. I will be willing to bet with $10,000 in advertising I can personally get you more than 300 customers and not biill you until you have them

 

[Brian R]

no where in the definition does it say hassle it says persuaded. maybe the more blatant news stories skewed your thinking but the definition fits

Ok, if being a bait n switcher is going into a house and offering more of my services than ordered. Then so be it.

But you know and I know that bait n switchers press hard to upsell to the point that it makes the home owner feel...Pressured.

There is a line there...but it can all be considered bait n switch


IF you go into a home with a price tag of $100 and only get $90.00...is that bait n switch too?

So if you don't get EXACTLY what was quoted over the phone...you're a bait n switcher?

What if they try to give you a tip Greg?

"NO MAAM, I'm no "bait n switcher"".




I say Tomato Greg sez ToMAHtoe

(that last part was funny in my own head and I only expect a few of your to get it. lmao.)
Just foolin with ya Greg.

 

[Brian R]

no where in the definition does it say hassle it says persuaded. maybe the more blatant news stories skewed your thinking but the definition fits

lets say 300 sold
$79 for 3 rooms $23,700 (which is your regular price so there is no discount, so that is an FTD type fraud)
($39.50) (11,850) to Groupon
39.50 11,850 Left
($10.00) ($3,000) to you for phone services, phones, scheduling, time, invoicing processing, taxes insurance.
($29.50) ($8850) to the techs for equipment, travel, operation time, clean chems and spotters etc and taxes insurance


so you Paid $11,850 or $39.50 per customer to already start in the whole. You said your guys have unmarked vans with truckmounts and I beleive it is something like $48.00 to run a truckmount per hour with depriation and repair and initial cost so they are paying $18.50 for the job you already paid 39.50 to acquire and you don't think this is ripe for pressure sales?

Before you start the job you and the other people you are relying(so if your not getting screwed you better bet the little guy your subbing to is) are in it for $58.00 with the cost of taxes, chems, .

I want to point out this thread had nothing to do with you, it was about groupon and you made it about you. I am just warning carpet cleaners to steer clear. I will be willing to bet with $10,000 in advertising I can personally get you more than 300 customers and not biill you until you have them

That was not my regular price when I did the Groupon Greg. Watch the fraud talk.
Those numbers look great but in the real world, maybe they're correct and maybe they're not.

 

[Brian R]

I think the issue is you are looking at this as conventional advertising and it's just not.

 

[XTREME1]

FTD did commit a fraud on the public by misrepresenting the discount

 

[Brian R]

FTD did commit a fraud on the public by misrepresenting the discount

Shame on them.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

I don't agree with the statement that "none" would come back without that low price offer again... I'm sure some may.

But it will be a hell of a lot harder to build the trust to convert additional and future sales with a group coming in ONLY on price, than if they came in through other reasons.

And for me, why do more work on a first transaction that digs a big hole.

Groupon is great for consumers, but not how I would market for new customers. But that's me, I seriously want quality customers who are seeking our expertise and service, and I want a lifetime business relationship with them.

These threads are giving me a headache.

Lisa

 

[Brian R]

Groupon has great prices ...yes. But they promote quality companies.


I had to answer a ton of questions, sign crap and assure them that I would do great work.

NO advertiser does that.

Yellow pages doesn't care if you splash in dash or not.

Groupon brings a higher end client...not all of them but that's who it's marketed to.

Just because it's a lower price doesn't mean it's a lower grade customer.

 

[XTREME1]

the studies show different could you show other studies to prove your point rather than just conjecture

 

[Ken Snow]

Greg I don't know where you get your numbers but it costs us less than 1/2 that per hour to run a $60,000 Butler so I would think if a guy has a portable or lower end used TM it could be under 4$ per hour. And that is just machine time, not counting all the other revenue generated without the machine being on such as Scotchgard etc.

Again, I agree woith much of what you say, but why knock it unless you really know how it works for Brian. I will not be trying it, but couldn't really care less what others do.

 

[XTREME1]

Brians guys as previously stated have unmarked newer vans with truckmounts not portables. Do your butlers run more than the average or average Ken?

Do you buy service supplies direct and have mechanics on staff or do you take them out for service? I am willing to bet that you have a different set of circumstances than a single operating subcontractor

 

[Brian R]

I can only go on what I know to be true Greg


You're an adventurous fellow.....Do a deal and report back.

You were ready to throw a couple thousand dollars at a marketing program a coupld weeks back and that didn't pan out...

Whatdya think?

 

[FB7777]

totally agree with Ken on this

when I started, I used to spend between $15-20,000 a year to get my name out there

every offer was a low room price offer in Super Coups, ADVO mailers , local shopper weeklies and YP ad


every advertising avenue I've tried has been 'money up front'

I won't be trying Groupon either but will be interested in hearing how and especially why it worked for others

 

[Brian R]

Brians guys as previously stated have unmarked newer vans with truckmounts not portables. Do your butlers run more than the average or average Ken?

Do you buy service supplies direct and have mechanics on staff or do you take them out for service? I am willing to bet that you have a different set of circumstances than a single operating subcontractor

Not all my subs are the same.
Some have full wrapped vehicles....some have unmarked vans.
Some have newer equipment...others not.

I don't have rules on equipment...only on quality of work.

And I've worked with guys who run prorties etc ....higher buildings etc.
You can get a carpet clean with a porty if you take the time.

 

[XTREME1]

fred you mean you agree with Greg who Ken happens to agree with


Brian I am just going by the information you give, if that information changes I have no clue

 

[Ken Snow]

A "newer van" whatever that means could be in the 5-10k range and add a 6k used TM and you have a 16k system on the road (I would bet most got in it for under 10k total).

Heck - Chris Adkins just got a terrific setup for I believe 17k and if not for the freezing issue would be jumping up and down about how great it is.

Like I said a fraction of what it costs to run a 60k butler, especially if they do the wrentching themselves. When I sell my Butlers half the calls I get are from guys looking to spend half as much as mine will sell for~ they are the perfect target for Brian's subcontracting.

Ken

 

[Brian R]

totally agree with Ken on this

when I started, I used to spend between $15-20,000 a year to get my name out there

every offer was a low room price offer in Super Coups, ADVO mailers , local shopper weeklies and YP ad


every advertising avenue I've tried has been 'money up front'

I won't be trying Groupon either but will be interested in hearing how and especially why it worked for others

It worked well the last time I did it. It really jump started the dallas area.
I've been doing repeats recently from it as it was just about at year ago.

Yes, it was a better deal for me then but I'm pretty sure I can make this work still.

 

[Brian R]

A "newer van" whatever that means could be in the 5-10k range and add a 6k used TM and you have a 16k system on the road (I would bet most got in it for under 10k total).

Heck - Chris Adkins just got a terrific setup for I believe 17k and if not for the freezing issue would be jumping up and down about how great it is.

Like I said a fraction of what it costs to run a 60k butler, especially if they do the wrentching themselves. When I sell my Butlers half the calls I get are from guys looking to spend half as much as mine will sell for~ they are the perfect target for Brian's subcontracting.

Ken

As it works out most of the "new" guys are in need of work and that's how we get hooked up.
a few of these guys start making some money and buy better equipment.

I know it's hard to believe that my "subs" make money...but they do and they are all happy and ready to jump on this groupon thing.

One of my subs here in Dallas just bought a brand new Hydromaster and trailer and has another guy running it so that makes 2 trucks I can utilize.

Cool beans!

 

[XTREME1]

Unfortuantely I have to say this wasn't an introspective on your and your company Brian(I know you seem to think everything is and you hijack all these threads) but it was about Groupon

If you want to recite the studies showing the success of groupon please do


Just a an side not on portables, I was in a few mansions this past week and actually thought they may have been easier to do with a high powered portable and a 175 rather than TMs. I could have left one guy all day and made more $. Unfortunately my porty needs a pump