OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts...

Bob Foster

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A have 1000 square feet steel insulated structure with 12-14 food ceilings and a rug pit and drying rack, what dehum should I put in it to be practical for energy vs dry times. I can power vent too. 100 amp service with 220v

What is your optimal room dehum strategy considering outside is high humidity and 45 degrees.

Ambient room temp about 60- 65 degrees.

What where and how much....

Thanks
 
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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

I wouldn't use a reefer dehu. Just heat and airflow....lots of the latter.
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Maybe consider getting an e-tes, some plastic and some sandbags and tent the rugs.

Air exchanges are going to be the most practical, because to keep the RH low, you're going to realistically need 3 dehumidifiers with an AHAM rating of 135. Not to mention its going to be awfully hot with three of those running.

You could however create a drying chamber with some zip walls, with a zipper opening, reducing the amount of space if you had a specific drying area, which could/would reduce the amount of dehumidifiers needed, and just bake 'em dry.
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Thanks for the suggestion but tenting rugs is not an option in a shop.

Aren't eTES units hogs on electricity?
 

leesenter

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

You need more heat Bob 60-65F is just too cool for efficient drying
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Then create a drying chamber around your rug rack that you can still work in.
 

John Watson

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Like Sir Jimbo said, with our weather and humid conditions the air exchanger would work wonders. Nate in Mich has one set up in his shop, besides the dri eaz units others are available just not as mobile or set up exactly for our use, Where do you thinkdri-eaz got them from in the begining???
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

I can bring the room temperature up but I was trying to save some costs. How about 72 degrees and what about fans and ventilation?

I could just go with my basic WRT stuff and limited minor dry out experience but I figure you guys dry out all the time.

When you WD guys dry out its usually somebody else paying for the hydro. So I want to make it efficient dry time vs energy costs.
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

The temps and humidity outside are worst case events.

Great ideas, and I'm a scrounger so I will but it on my lookout list.
 
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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

"Hydro" is Canadian for "electricity"....I learned from my son-in-law.
 

steve g

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

if you are trying to dry down the entire area with dehus I would recommend 2 LGR's phoenix 200's or the equivalent drieaz model. hoody is right about a couple things though. if there is any way to shrink down the drying area to 6000 cubic feet or less that would get you by with one dehu. OR heat the crap out of the area which for fast drying probably makes alot more sense. depending on where you live you and how humid it is you could also incorporate outside air somehow possibly in lieu of dehus'
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

vichis.jpg
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

steve g said:
if you are trying to dry down the entire area with dehus I would recommend 2 LGR's phoenix 200's or the equivalent drieaz model. hoody is right about a couple things though. if there is any way to shrink down the drying area to 6000 cubic feet or less that would get you by with one dehu. OR heat the crap out of the area which for fast drying probably makes alot more sense. depending on where you live you and how humid it is you could also incorporate outside air somehow possibly in lieu of dehus'

If you consider a class 4 situation... which is how I would classify it, at a max of 14,000 cu ft you're going to need 3.

14,000 / 50(class 4) = 280 / AHAM 135 = 2.07 .... though its barely over 2 you'll need 3... but then you also are going to need to get that hot air to the rugs with proper air flow to create evaporation and drying.

Create a chamber as steve also said, say a 10x20 area at 14 ft ceiling, 2800 cu ft.

2800/50 = 56 / 135 = .48 ..... that way you could actually get an LGR such as an evolution, for much much cheaper, and less operating costs. An evolution will keep up easily in an area that size. You could even get away with a 15x20 area and an evolution. With the evolution since the output is in the front of the machine, you could direct it right at the rug(s) that you're drying.
 
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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

You are in a much dryer area than I am. With 40% RH and the barn nature of your shop I certainly wouldn't spend much on trying to lower its humidity, (unless you are a $3sf guy promising 3 day turnaround).
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Maybe I could put a drop tarp that rolls down from the ceiling on two side and put the dry room in the corner of the shop. The corner I am thinking of has two good sized vent holes from a previous shop application too. Trouble is that's where I was planning on putting the wash pit. The other side of the garage has a mechanics pit in it that I was planing on doing some funky flat drying with by putting fans in it and blowing them up.

Summer time (low ambient outside humidity) will allow me to use that huge air movement to do most of the drying but in the winter I think I need to use an internally generated drying strategy but have some exhaust capability out of that room.

To completely tent that area so its reduces the higher humidity air from entering the tented area creates possibly a lot of negative pressure in this room unless I just recirculate the air air and remove the condensate from the dehumidifier(s) as the only means of humidity reduction.
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

I think you're getting so focused on the ambient temperature and RH values its really confusing you on what causes things to dry. You can have a great difference between outside and inside and make the conditions suitable for drying, but the key to drying is creating a difference in vapor pressure between the material you're drying, and the drying environment.

Higher vapor pressure wants to go to lower. So while your drying environment might be lower than the outside, the outside is trying to come in(in the summer), not the other way around, so exhausting it isn't going to do much for you, so you need dehus. In the winter its perfect conditions for an exhaust system, because the vapor pressure outside is going to be significantly lower, even at a high RH, even cold. Bring in cold dry air, still get heat to the rugs, exhaust it out.

In the summer you're going to want to create a chamber, lower the RH, and significantly raise the ambient temperature(70's would be okay 80s ideal), via dehumidifiers. Then you're going to want to raise the temperature directly at the material(rugs) even more(output of the dehu = 95-105 degrees, or an e-tes unit).

Its going to take "more work" in the summer to dry the rugs than in the winter(should dry real quick), but its definitely do-able.

Man I miss living in Utah, it was so easy to dry out there.
 

kmdineen

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Attach 6 mill plastic to the ceiling of your shop, creating a 20' x 20' x 14' high drying chamber and secure it at the floor using sand bags. The plastic and sand bags will allow you to move (roll up) the plastic walls to get them out of the way when not in use.
One Phoenix 200 HT and one 240v E TES placed in the drying chamber will give you plenty of energy to rapidly dry your rugs. Blow the exhaust from the HT into a 1/4 or 1/3 hp air mover used with the E TES. Experiment with the different speeds on the air mover to find the sweet spot for your drying chamber. Get a mini IR Thermometer to take surface temperatures of your rugs, shoot for 100 plus degrees or whatever temperature is safe for the rugs. Hanging your rugs close to the ceiling in the drying chamber will dry them fastest.
The cost of operating the Phoenix 200 HT and E TES for 8 hours at 0.13 cents a KW hour would be approximately $7.50 US. Or $22.50 for 24 hours, or $1 dollar an hour at 0.13 cents per KW hour.
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

kmdineen said:
Attach 6 mill plastic to the ceiling of your shop, creating a 20' x 20' x 14' high drying chamber and secure it at the floor using sand bags. The plastic and sand bags will allow you to move (roll up) the plastic walls to get them out of the way when not in use.
One Phoenix 200 HT and one 240v E TES placed in the drying chamber will give you plenty of energy to rapidly dry your rugs. Blow the exhaust from the HT into a 1/4 or 1/3 hp air mover used with the E TES. Experiment with the different speeds on the air mover to find the sweet spot for your drying chamber. Get a mini IR Thermometer to take surface temperatures of your rugs, shoot for 100 plus degrees or whatever temperature is safe for the rugs. Hanging your rugs close to the ceiling in the drying chamber will dry them fastest.
The cost of operating the Phoenix 200 HT and E TES for 8 hours at 0.13 cents a KW hour would be approximately $7.50 US. Or $22.50 for 24 hours, or $1 dollar an hour at 0.13 cents per KW hour.

I've been waiting for you to finally chime in! :mrgreen:
 

Mikey P

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Sounds like its going to cost $1.99 @ foot just to dry each rug unless you have 30 of them hanging out

Truck em or fuckem Bob.
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

Mike I think you're jumping to the conclusion that I have to use one of the costly drying strategies that have been suggested.

That's not going to happen and I know I can dry for a low cost because I already am.
 

Hoody

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

You asked about psychometrics, and you got it. So just get some really powerful air movers and call it day, or dry them flat, and hang a few air paths from the ceiling.
 

Bob Foster

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Re: OK you psychrometric guys with calculators on your belts

And somewhere between costing nothing and costing too much is what will happen. The advice has been useful and appreciated.
 
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