Porty Shootout Results

[Curtis Pennington]

I believe in not being a damn hypocrite.


and I dont have a religious bone in my body.



But on the third day of SFS when my JW wife found out that your buddy calls himself a JW she was absolutely shocked.
Any man who makes his wife cut up his dinner into bite sized pieces in front of a group of people and then gloats about how much control he has over here is a down right pos in most people's eyes.


Lots, if not all of the JW in this industry are down right disgusted by how your leader is representing his faith.

whats a JW?

 

[Art Kelley]

JW=Jehova's Witness. This is off topic but this thread has deteriorated anyways, check out the gorgeous pictures on this web site. Now this is what a nice site should look like: http://www.Ilovethejw.com

 

[Scott Rogers]

J
Tell you what , I guess I'll do your 2.5 testing vs. 4 to the door for you and report back to everyone how much difference is between the two . And I wont have any problems with you useing the data - if other words , you really should retire the "thump ", its kinda rediculous , dont you think ??

I'm would not call myself one of greenies customers. pulling 4 to the door every job would be a major PIA, why would anyone do that when you can pull 2.5 to the door. I carry 150 ft 2.5" and 50 ft 2" lead off on the truck, I have another 50 ft 2.5" and 300 ft 2" I throw on the truck when i need it.

To me its absolutely crazy to pull 4 2" hoses to reach a door when I can do the same job by pulling 2' 2.5"

And 2.5 inch hose is not more expensive then 2" if it takes twice the amount of hose to do the same job

 

[The Preacher]

i was hoping to win a 50' section of 2.5" hose as a door prize at MF, but it wasn't to be.

but i did win the secret backdoor pass code to ICS & *** which i have used almost daily since returning!!!

 

[Willy P]

 

[Willy P]

 

[Ron Werner]

John posted this on ICS, thought I'd move it here for discussion.

Here are some comments from the Vac Motor Executive. A neutral guy with no axe to grind. He is more then fair and honest. This was not a competition it was a comparison of similarities and differences to give the PCC's info for making any choice they like. All the machines cleaned carpet. Some may have been a little faster than others, but that is somewhat subjective. It's like, which car do you prefer? Chevy, Ford or what ever. There were no Yugo's there. As far as new units are concerned, they were all new except one, and the invitation to that manufacturer was declined. The guys evaluated what they had. It wasn't designed for anyone to look bad but instead to provide info to the industry.(like water lift and amps per cord) If you truly feel that a more "independent third party" is needed let's agree on who and where. Mytee will be glad to participate.

John LaBarbera
Mytee Products Inc.



From: "Dennis Mancl"
Date: March 6, 2009 5:58:13 PM PST
To: , "Nathan Pepper" ,
Subject: Mikeyfest Comments

Hello Gentlemen;

Thanks very much for asking me to be part of Mikeyfest --- it was really great to meet so many really interesting people and review the many wonderful products --- there was certainly much for me to learn.

Some random comments related to testing and performance are noted below:

1) Many different types of performance measurements were made, many of which do not necessarily directly relate to cleaning ability.
2) ?CFM? readings were taken with a 25 foot hose with an open inlet condition --- only the CFM meter was on the wand end of the hose. This CFM value indicates the airflow (Cubic feet of airflow per minute) with an open hose condition. Since a hose must be connected to a wand and integral floor nozzle that reduces the orifice (and reduces the CFM) as used on carpet, then the CFM reading cannot be directly used to indicate the nozzle vacuum in actual application.
3) Unit inlet port sealed vacuum --- These readings were also recorded and indicate the sealed inlet vacuum with zero CFM (airflow). Again with no airflow, then water could never be picked up off the floor and moved into a recovery tank. Both vacuum and suction together are required for effective pick up and transfer of the water off the carpet and into the recovery tank.
4) Average Nozzle Vacuum --- these readings were also recorded. The wand nozzle had a hole tapped into it about 3? above the floor and in the middle of its 12? width. These readings were recorded both with the wand moving forward (pushed) and also the wand moving backward (pulled). The pull and push wand vacuum readings were added together and then divided by 2 to yield an average wand vacuum. My opinion is that this reading is a better indicator of the units ability to contribute to the extraction capability (how fast can water be picked up).
5) Boosters --- Testing was run using 125 feet of 2? hose comparing the 5 units. The boosters seemed to level the playing field performance. Without the booster the wand vacuum pushing readings ranged from about 22 ? 49 inches. With the 2 stage Mytee booster 25 feet from the wand (still 125 feet total) the wand vacuum readings ranged from about 50 to 63 inches. With the 3 stage Mytee booster 25 feet from the wand the vacuum readings ranged from about 53 ? 69 inches. Again the readings were much closer with a booster than without.
6) Less sealed vac with 3 motors than 2 --- One unit tested runs normally using 2 motors butr can have a 3rd motor turned on also. With the 3rd motor turned on the sealed vacuum went down but the open CFM increased. If a lower (not balanced) vacuum motor is used for the 3rd boost motor, then at sealed suction the higher vacuum motors can actually leak air through the 3rd motor reducing total sealed vacuum. On the other hand since at the open hose CFM test condition you are operating a very low vacuum, then this 3rd motor still raises total open hose CFM.
7) Booster Power --- Generally the 2 and 3 stage motor boosters helped. However if the main vacuum source has very high power motors, and if the booster were relatively low power, then the booster motor would have airflow though it backwards acting as a leak rather than ?boosting? performance. Therefore the system should be designed, balanced and tested as it is intended to be used to make sure desired results are achieved.
8) Air Series versus Air Parallel --- Which is better? The honest answer is it depends. Either can be better or worse depending on the total system design. Factors effecting the answer include motor stages, motor power, hose size, hose length, hose smoothness, inlet filter restrictions, exhaust filter restrictions, hose cuff restrictions, wand width, wand length, wand opening detail within opening, leaks at any and all joints. All of these things collectively define system performance which then determine optimum air series or air parallel performance. It is a good idea to test any theories by looking at your nozzle vacuum when used for extraction on your most typical cleaning surface.
9) Water pick up --- This was also tested and was rather subjective. It was agreed that that units all generally picked up most of the dispensed water given enough time to vacuum it back up. Higher nozzle suction should pick up quicker, lower nozzle vacuum likely takes more time. Some people felt 100% water recovery was achieved --- I find this difficult to believe as in all cased the remaining carpet was at least somewhat damp. I would expect some correlation to how high the nozzle vacuum is --- especially regarding how long the recovery takes. If a recovery test is run on a initially dry carpet I would expect the recovery to be lower than with an already wet carpet that will thus more readily give up the moisture. If a carpet were quite wet initially then you could even get more water back than you even put down? So anyway we must be a little careful in comparing these values.

To All --- Thanks for inviting me to be part of this --- Hoping my comments are somewhat helpful.

Dennis Mancl

 

[John LaBarbera]

We got some additional information in from the vacuum motor manufacturer that did the testing for us. In addition to what has already been posted, he had done some testing on longer hose runs with a vacuum booster. His results are below:

As has been mentioned before, this testing was done independently by this vacuum motor manufacturer and a few extremely helpful volunteers. We suggested some basic criteria for the testing, but we did not have input into the final numbers. The only time we raised any objection about the testing was when one of the competing units CFM (not our unit) was coming in way too low. We investigated and found out that a fitting was not installed properly, and corrected that for a re-test.

We would like to thank all who helped out in the testing for us.

Also, as an FYI to everyone, John has been a bit busy for the last few days with some things we have going on here, and hasn't had time to post on the boards recently. He asked me to put these results up for him.

Thanks.

Nathan (Posting from John's computer.)

 

[Guest]

I like those numbers; now when we test a newer model you will see a much bigger difference. CFM's on the Recoil are not even close to what a properly operating machine should do. I do however think it is funny that such an old machine is giving the best newest competitors such a hard time.

:roll:

 

[Ron Werner]

Thanks Nathan

 

[Dolly Llama]

I like those numbers; now when we test a newer model you will see a much bigger difference. CFM's on the Recoil are not even close to what a properly operating machine should do.

hey Rickie, see if you can get Ed to measure and give us the numbers.
Dose he mention specific CFM and lift numbers for his different set ups?



..L.T.A.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

I like those numbers; now when we test a newer model you will see a much bigger difference. CFM's on the Recoil are not even close to what a properly operating machine should do.

hey Rickie, see if you can get Ed to measure and give us the numbers.
Dose he mention specific CFM and lift numbers for his different set ups?



..L.T.A.

Yeah, like that will ever happen. Have been living under a rock?

 

[steve g]

I believe in not being a damn hypocrite.


and I dont have a religious bone in my body.



But on the third day of SFS when my JW wife found out that your buddy calls himself a JW she was absolutely shocked.
Any man who makes his wife cut up his dinner into bite sized pieces in front of a group of people and then gloats about how much control he has over here is a down right pos in most people's eyes.


Lots, if not all of the JW in this industry are down right disgusted by how your leader is representing his faith.

so is it fair to say JC is not one of the one hundred and fourty four thousand??

I think there is a few here that are just mad that the M5 kicked butt over the resoil, the resoil looks like an overgrown rug doctor

 

[Dolly Llama]

I think there is a few here that are just mad that the M5 kicked butt over the resoil,

only in "numbers", but not where the rubber meets the road in practical use ...like water recovery.

Don't get me wrong, I consider the Recoil to be a pretty cheezy built porty for the price.
But it recovered more solution than the M-5 (which BTW recovered the LEAST of all the portys)

so as I keep saying, "numbers" don't mean much with out practical "real world" use data....like actual recovery

yea, yea, yea.."maybe" it just needed a pimped out $700 dollar wand to make it go?
What wand (if any) comes with the M-5?

..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

oh yea..and Rickie, what are Ed's reCoIl numbers?

..L.T.A.

 

[Mr.V]

My M5 came with a Greenhorn "lite" wand

12 inch head,4 #2 jets,2 inch tube

and I don't know what happened at the testing but when I pour 3 5gallon buckets full of water in it,,,,,,,,,,,,I dump 3 buckets FULL of dirty water and I never use less than 50 ft. of hose

mostly use the pump out and auto fill but when only cleaning 1 or 2 rooms I don't bother hooking em up

I feel results will always be different in the real world and I still think the M5 is the best porty I've ever used

 

[Dolly Llama]

I feel results will always be different in the real world and I still think the M5 is the best porty I've ever used

I have no reason not to believe "you", Andy.
i know you're a veteran cleaner.
It will be good to get your thought/evaluations on the machine a year from now.
I know you were turning some serious hours before.
So if you're turning anywhere near that many now, you'll be one of the dudes I'd trust for reliability/ durability experiences

..L.T.A.

 

[SuperFly]

Bill S. Why are you always bitter about any post on the Recoil and Ed V..? :x
Do you own one..? :roll:
What is your story..? :|

 

[Willy P]

My M5 came with a Greenhorn "lite" wand

12 inch head,4 #2 jets,2 inch tube

and I don't know what happened at the testing but when I pour 3 5gallon buckets full of water in it,,,,,,,,,,,,I dump 3 buckets FULL of dirty water and I never use less than 50 ft. of hose

mostly use the pump out and auto fill but when only cleaning 1 or 2 rooms I don't bother hooking em up

I feel results will always be different in the real world and I still think the M5 is the best porty I've ever used

HEY! ANDY YOU FIBBER! You told me my Vorninja was the most powerful porty you ever operated. But I guess you meant alive, not dead..... I miss that beast....

 

[Willy P]

Bill S. Why are you always bitter about any post on the Recoil and Ed V..? :x
Do you own one..? :roll:
What is your story..? :|

Good question. Lacking professionalism, or making up for a "shortcoming" :wink:

 

[Dolly Llama]

speaking of "Vornija", what ever happened to clOd.
Is he still fixing.....er...running that Nick-O-matic lite?

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

He moved to Tennessee and bought a sandwich shop.

 

[Willy P]

He moved to Tennessee and bought a sandwich shop.

Overdosed on viagra.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Bill S. Why are you always bitter about any post on the Recoil and Ed V..? :x
Do you own one..? :roll:
What is your story..? :|

Good question. Lacking professionalism, or making up for a "shortcoming" :wink:

Because Ed and most Recoilers give out misleading information. Like it has 150" lift, and can clean at 300 ft from the van without a booster.

In fact Gman, you have been the most vocal in the past about Ed's claims that the Recoil can equal TM performance.

I don't like how Ed constantly takes shots at Mytee under the rader while the Recoil gang does the frontal attack. Then Ed claims he is just an innocent victim, and Mytee is evil for copying his every move.

Ed makes grand claims, but when a potential buyer (like I was) tries to get some more info, he dodges the questions.

I think the third lower lift 2-stage motor is a bad design (a third 3-stage with the same lift like the UK machine is totally different).

I think it also expensive for what you get.

Someone needs to balance the crazy talk that Rickie spews out daily.

 

[Greenie]

It would have helped Ed's PR and marketing claims to just be square with people in the beginning, doing things like citing a 240v UK spec. machine on a US board when the US version recoil III was questioned, only serves as diversionary tactics and loses respect. And making excuse after excuse and trying to turn a design flaw into a Proprietary performance feature is jsut assinine.

And for the recoil gang, you have to keep the subject of slamming Ed personally and Ed's products separate, they are two totally different issues.

If you look back 5+ years you will see I was a strong advocate of Ed and his products, I owned his little 2.5 gal extractor, worked well for a small simple machine, of course i never got a close look at a recoil, but my mitey-one did have the light dimmer knob on it, the one from a wall switch, that was always a conversation piece..lol
Anyhow back on track, I supported Ed, even offered 5 free glides to the next 5 bulletin board customers who bought in the winter, but Ed didn't want them, guess he didn't believe in them or something, who knows, point is he didn't take me up on the offer, his and his customers loss.

Over the years, as I watch his daily commentary I started to lose respect, so eventually when I needed a machine built to my specs. Ed was not on that list, how hard would it have been to list the basic numbers for your system, 99cfm, 99" water lift each motor...not hard, he advertises 500psi on the pump these days, I'll bet you don't see 500 when you pull the trigger do ya? Just be square with people. and for gawds sake if you call it a 17 gal tank it had better hold 17 gal. or shut up about it, I probably shouldn't dig all that up again...

 

[jimmyb]

DIG Greenie DIG!.

Once I put the 3 stage booster in mine it made it a better machine, except for the tank capacity.

And a dimmer switch, that's funny!

 

[Willy P]

[quote="Willy P":2iqamtwq]

Bill S. Why are you always bitter about any post on the Recoil and Ed V..? :x
Do you own one..? :roll:
What is your story..? :|

Good question. Lacking professionalism, or making up for a "shortcoming" :wink:

Because Ed and most Recoilers give out misleading information. Like it has 150" lift, and can clean at 300 ft from the van without a booster.

In fact Gman, you have been the most vocal in the past about Ed's claims that the Recoil can equal TM performance.

I don't like how Ed constantly takes shots at Mytee under the rader while the Recoil gang does the frontal attack. Then Ed claims he is just an innocent victim, and Mytee is evil for copying his every move.

Ed makes grand claims, but when a potential buyer (like I was) tries to get some more info, he dodges the questions.

I think the third lower lift 2-stage motor is a bad design (a third 3-stage with the same lift like the UK machine is totally different).

I think it also expensive for what you get.


Someone needs to balance the crazy talk that Rickie spews out daily. [/quote:2iqamtwq]

First off, weren't you complaining about the pumps you got with your eventual purchase? Since you have some REAL LIFE experience there why aren't you busy throwing up red flags about that? It's too bad you don't take on that complaint, instead of something that you are completely ignorant on.

I notice your post says "I think " a lot. Try posting when you can say "I know" instead of being just another whiny bitch barking in the dog pack.

I noticed one post where you call Rickie "Finkalot" or some other grade 3 name calling horsecrap. Did Rickie respond calling you Sucksmenoff or something like that? No. By all means, question, raise doubts,etc. but sand box name calling shows about 2 cents worth of maturity.

Ed takes shots at the competition. I wonder why? I swing back when someone takes a shot at me and, if it was me being swung at, I'd be swinging a lot harder than Ed does.

You know, the funny thing is, I've operated my machinery for 3 years now, and the only issues I've had are with Lamb/Ametek and Pumptec the same components used as industry standard.
But they must be worse as they're in a Recoil.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

We can talk about the strengths and weaknesses of any other machines out there, but when a Recoil gets mentioned, there is always a big smoke screen.

Mytee has been bashed here, but John just comes back with the changes and makes a better product.

Don't take it personally Willy.

Rickie knows that I call him that.

I will not respond any more on this post about the Recoil so as not to cloud the good information presented here.

 

[SuperFly]

Actually Bill i said it CAN'T.. 8) 8) Others have but not me..! :? :? :?

Whatsmore.. Show me one post that this was mentioned..!! 8)
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Sorry Gman, that's what I meant.