prochem everest with the e idle....anyone have one?

[davegillfishing]

this unit looks sick!! anyone have one? im in no way shape of form happy with the water usage on my sapphire 570ss..its a awesome machine but costing me tons of wasted money
as i am told by sapphire guys its the way the heat system works..its a bypass but its dumping all my ro water in the waste
tank using up all my water..its killing us and after 6 months of trying to figure a way around it..its not looking like there is one soooooo

 

[wilpath]

i dont post very often, however, i do own a prochem everest with about 4800 hours, not with e idle.. great machine,, with almost zero downtime, i am able to do all the upkeep on the machine , a down right great machine,, all the heat you want 240 atm,, ..go for it,, proven.

dave ,, i alos own a 1994 butler, great machine, made lots of money with it, sits in my garage while i figure out what to do with it

 

[davegillfishing]

mind if i give you a call sometime to ask a few detailed questions?
if you text you can text me your number and a good time to call
904-483-7307 dave
thanks

 

[machinejjh]

We installed a brand new 650 with the e-idle about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Got to play around with it. It's a tad touchy but works as advertised.

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[davegillfishing]

Does just the idle kick down but the pump still runs or how does that work?

Is is a water bypass system that dumps the hot water in the waste tank or no?
Thanks

 

[Able 1]

I think they all(heat exchangers) dump water, but it really shouldn't be noticeable... When the water in the water box hits a certain temp.(180 i believe) the valve opens(and dumps into the waste tank) to save the pump. If you have one that is using alot of water it might just be that valve in the water box that might be faulty(stuck open)..

 

[davegillfishing]

we played with that a bit..its just very frustrating
its costing me to much money wasting time and water..with the butlers we ran we very very rarely had to come nack
to shop to refill with water..i mean once every 2-3 months..with this unit we are most times 2 times a day! its out of control

 

[machinejjh]

Basically it idles down the same as turning the switch. Three quick trigger pulls to idle down, then the next squeeze of the trigger it idles back up.

If you're constantly bypassing water I'd check the bypass valve.

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[Lee Stockwell]

Run the bypass line back to the fresh tank after running it thru a small heater core with fan to cool it.

 

[davegillfishing]

Hmmm like a trans cooler or similar
Good idea


....

 

[Zee]

Run the bypass line back to the fresh tank after running it thru a small heater core with fan to cool it.

That could be a good solution to the problem....BUT- I have a feeling that those people that spend north of 20 grand for any of these units, will want it to work properly and not cause headaches. I think it shouldn't be the end user's problem to figure out how to make it work better. It shouldn't be an issue to the user to try to redesign the water bypass system to be more efficient.

I for one, am glad to hear these problems.... And all manufacturers should be happy to hear them whether it is public or not.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I hate venting any water to the waste tank, and I'm baffled that so many still do it.

The Everest uses the third(last) blower exhaust exchanger like this to cool overheated water rather than dump it.

So many ways to skin a cat, and no mfg yet has made a "perfect" machine.

If it were mine I'd just fix it and enjoy it Tuesday morning. If you switched it for another machine you'd just have to wait to find out IT'S issues. "Too much heat" is a great problem to have, and easy to fix.

 

[davegillfishing]

We run it on low and it still dumps water..

I can deal with lots of issues but this one is costing me lots of time and money..the water here in jax is so bad we switched to RO/DI water 8 years ago and have 200 gallon tanks..should work great..has for 8 years till,the water bypass situation..,wish I knew this before I went this rout..awesome machine completely..very powerful, easy to use, heat all day..just tons of water wasted

 

[Steve Lawrence]

With a 200 gal water tank you probably don't even need a cooler. Just run the little bit of hot water to the tank. Shouldn't add enough heat to worry about.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I agree Steve, but on occasion my 160 gallon tank is down to its last 10 or 15 gallons and could run hot in rare instances.

Just making allowances for Murphy's relentless efforts to bite me.

 

[Mikey P]

One more reason to attend MFE next week.

 

[davegillfishing]

Lee this the my worry..if running low on water bypassing super hot water into the tank heating it all up

 

[Able 1]

I have the same problem with my Apex.. I have a 165 gallon fresh water tank and will sometimes need to fill by the end of the day. With my Peak I have 120 gallon tank and it might make it through the day.

I bucket tested both truck mounts today and after a minute they put out the same amount of water.

I think the bypass in the water box is bad.. To test this one you have to use vacuum to suck on the hose that goes to the waste tank..

 

[GeneMiller]

The bypass from the water box needs the vacuum to really work. You can turn your fresh into a giant water box. I had to calm my beast but I don't know the 570 plumbing but it can be done. Unfortunately the machines are based with the principals that water is cheap and can be dumped. It's the simplest way to control temps.

Gene

 

[JS41035]

I would disconnect the bypass hose going to the waste tank. Use a 5 gallon pail and figure out how much water is actually being bypassed. Put a number on it.
The skinner solenoid valve on my 405 originally was plumbed to dump water into the waste tank. I have it on a three way valve now. I can let it bypass into the fresh. Into the filter box ( basically the waste tank). Or underneath the van. (Great on all day cleaning jobs where you don't wanna fill up the waste. ). I would do the same thing if I were you.

 

[davegillfishing]

i will work with sapphire a bit more..i have 2 years of warranty left and dont want a excuse to void it..so i am hesitant to start re plumbing to much stuff..

 

[jwfoulk12]

My white magic dumps overheated water to the fresh tank. While this is much better then dumping to the waste tank it's still not ideal. If I'm cleaning lots of furniture especially in the last quarter tank of water sometime the incoming water will get to hot and shut down my machine. I'm glad to hear about this issue though as I was looking at the 570 as my next unit but this would definitely be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Able 1]

Anyone know at what temperature the valve in the water box opens? Mine is opens at 140 degrees..

Edit: I found them on Ebay would you go with 165 or 180 degree valve?

 

[Bill Bruders]

The Sapphire 570 only dumps water when the water box temp hits 170 degrees. This is to protect the pump. While we have high temp cups etc in all of our pumps temps above 170 are a problem. Now a person could route this water to a fresh water tank if they have one but what we really need to understand is what is causing the water box to hit the magic 170 number. First thing we need to know is what pressure and flow is Dave using? Too little flow can cause this to happen or extended periods of no flow. I've already alerted the Service and Engineering team if Dave's problem and we will get with him and his distributor on Tuesday

 

[davegillfishing]

Bill thanks..I was in no way trying to call sapphire out at all..I have been working a little with Scott or Rick?

I,want to be clear that I love this rig..it's awesome I just need to hammer out this water issue

We run a prochem wand 6 jet high flow and usually clean at 400-600 psi depending on carpet condition

When using a turbo we clean at 900-1200 psi

Uph we set machine to heat off

And when doing reg cleaning run it on med..that gets us to 240 plus on the gage

Thanks for caring and stepping in..I was going to call service back tues to see what the next step would be anyhow but I feel that this will surly step things up on my service center for sure
Dave

And my guys shut down the pump and idle down the machine if its going to sit for more than 5 mins. I am pretty nutty about not letting it run while sitting..and trained all them the same way..

My thoughts are its easier to shut the pump off than it is to replace or rebuild it

My oldest butler had 5000 hrs on original pump and it was in great shape so I feel that system works well

 

[SamIam]

Ya don't leave the machine on unattended or take it out of speed put it in idle. I noticed Tom's auto pumping not sure if he had a water pond of not. But with my 405 if it's on you need to keep the wand running.


....

 

[Larry Cobb]

I think they all(heat exchangers) dump water, but it really shouldn't be noticeable... When the water in the water box hits a certain temp.(180 i believe) the valve opens(and dumps into the waste tank) to save the pump. If you have one that is using alot of water it might just be that valve in the water box that might be faulty(stuck open)..

Our DC534 & DC538 Heat Exchangers do not dump any heated water . . .

Our 2-stage HX system reduces heat @ 225 degrees :
www.cobbcarpet.com/hx55.html

Our 2-stage HX system reduces heat rise @ 225 degrees.

Dave,

our new RO TM's generate on truck, and store in our built-in pure water tanks.

Larry

 

[Wandslinger]

I will tell you this, my 570 hardly dumps water. I know this because my distributor did not hook up the hose to dump into my waste tank. I found this out because I once had water dripping out of my van when I left it for several minutes. Remedy: I installed a hose from the relief valve on the water box and ran it so that it would dump underneath my van. Once in a great while it will have a heavy drip but only after leaving the machine for awhile (fifteen minutes or more) without keying the wand.

I'm assuming this is what we are all talking about. I will admit the plumbing is a little confusing to me coming from a fuel burner.

 

[davegillfishing]

I wouldn't mind it dumping under the truck..that would save room in the waste tank for actual dirty water..

I wish the sales rep told me of the water bypass system when I went over the water storage system we have..

Frustrating.

Hopefully bill or someone calls tomorrow, got nothing today

 

[Steve Lawrence]

Hey Lee,
Maybe have Justin's valve in there to divert hot water out the bottom if your fresh is low.

I agree Steve, but on occasion my 160 gallon tank is down to its last 10 or 15 gallons and could run hot in rare instances.

Just making allowances for Murphy's relentless efforts to bite me.