Proper technique. 2 step or three step process?

dekare

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What's actually better for cleaning? A two step or three step process? The two step would be detergent put down with a pump sprayer, agitated and for a rinse, a chemical rinse agent run through the wand. To me that would be the way to leave your customer's carpet residue free.

The three step would be a pre-spray with a pump sprayer, agitated, then detergent run through the wand and a rinse then applied to the carpet with a pump sprayer. I can see the wisdom of applying the detergent with a wand, but it does nothing for the removal of any detergent residue.

I'll admit I'm pretty new to all this, just trying to clear up something I don't fully understand.
 

hogjowl

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Yeah, I can tell.

You didn't even get the steps right.

Two step is prespray and rinse extract.

Three step is prevacuum, prespray and rinse extract.

99% of the time agitation is a waste.
 

rhino1

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Depends on the situation really. Also depends on how much the customer is willing to invest in their cleaning.
 
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Marty said:
Yeah, I can tell.

You didn't even get the steps right.

Two step is prespray and rinse extract.

Three step is prevacuum, prespray and rinse extract.

99% of the time agitation is a waste.

Don't listen to this guy. A scrub with 175 and decent brush or pad will always make the carpet clean easier and better.

How long does it take to run a rotary around the traffic areas? A few minutes per room. And it makes you look like you are doing a much more thorough job which you are.

But yes there are plenty of carpets that good heat and chems will make the cleaning a cinch.

Just when you think spray and suck is the way to go, you will come across some that need more.

It's also an easy sell for tile cleaning. Every customer asks wow what is that you are doing. I tell them this is a real deep clean. I can run it on your tile too if you want us to knock that out for you. It's one of the easiest sells we do.
 
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I find it odd that people start a business and know nothing about how to do the service they offer... sure some can make it work, but its a recipe for going out of business.

I suggest writing down all your questions and using the search feature on the top right of the page.. then post if you have any other questions.

I would recommend taking a certification class and listen to some of the people on here..

You have equipment?
 

Mike Draper

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I(heart)DryTimes said:
I find it odd that people start a business and know nothing about how to do the service they offer... sure some can make it work, but its a recipe for going out of business.

I suggest writing down all your questions and using the search feature on the top right of the page.. then post if you have any other questions.

I would recommend taking a certification class and listen to some of the people on here..

You have equipment?

Brent, I started 5.5 years ago and didnt even know what a truck mount was. I bought a rotovac and porty setup and went to town. I remember I went down to Interlink supply in Salt Lake City with $800ish and the asshole sold me encapping stuff after I told him I had a porty and a rotovac. they've lost a ton of $$$ over the years becuase of that. WE all got to start somewhere.
 
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Mike Draper said:
[quote="I(heart)DryTimes":2mh91861]I find it odd that people start a business and know nothing about how to do the service they offer... sure some can make it work, but its a recipe for going out of business.

I suggest writing down all your questions and using the search feature on the top right of the page.. then post if you have any other questions.

I would recommend taking a certification class and listen to some of the people on here..

You have equipment?

Brent, I started 5.5 years ago and didnt even know what a truck mount was. I bought a rotovac and porty setup and went to town. I remember I went down to Interlink supply in Salt Lake City with $800ish and the asshole sold me encapping stuff after I told him I had a porty and a rotovac. they've lost a ton of $$$ over the years becuase of that. WE all got to start somewhere.[/quote:2mh91861]


I started with a bucket, some shampoo, a scrub brush, and a 175. Didn't have the first clue what I was doing and still don't. :lol:
 
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I started with a porty and an 89 T-Bird.. We do all start somewhere and some make it and sorry dekare been a long week and hope you read up on the priceless info on this site.
 

sweendogg

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WELCOME TO MIKEYS BOARD!! :mrgreen:


Alright I'll take the civil approach.

Here is the error of your thinking..

There are two types of rinse agents designed to be run through your truckmount... detergents and acidic rinses. Detergents "typically" are alkaline side cleaning agents but this can vary as there are some desent neutral and slightly acid side detergents that exist today as well. Also detergent is really a misnomer as well.. as ther are alkalkine rinse agents that do not utilize any detergent agents but rather soap free style properties. (these would include soap free from masterblend, oxygen release from CTI, planet guard rinse by jon don.. etc.)

In times past, shampoo was king. That is a high sudsing detergent that was intended to lift soils into the lather and then be rinsed away either by dry vacuume or actual squirt and suck extractors.

Then came the truckmount utilizing pressure and temperature. It was thought that using a detergent through the truckmount and having it super heated would make cleaning a one step process. While it works in some cases. It still was difficult to remove all of the soils and anitquated detergents left some pretty nasty residues behind to promote resoiling.

Somewhere in there somebody got the brite idea that using dwell time would help the cleaning process along and thus pre conditioning agents were introduced. This allowed for a strong mixture of cleaning agents to be applied to the carpet, agitated a little and then extracted with straight water or a rinse agent with the truckmounts. While this method was similar to shampoo.. the pre conditioning agnets were low foaming and more easily extracted with truckmount equipment reducing the need for defoamers and making the process more efficient.

Today we have several options available to us. In low soil situations, some times a good encapsulating or non residutal alkaline rinse can be used through the truckmount to effectively clean a carpet. In moderate soiling situations, often a prespray combined with a soft water or acidic rinse agent is adequate to restore the carpet. And in heavier soiling situations sometimes a prespray combined with an alkaline rinse agent is needed to pack the punch to get the carpet as clean as you can.

There is alot of debate about whether an acidic rinse is always needed to insure the least amount of residue.

In all reality there exists alkaline rinse agents that leave just as little to no residue at all in comparison to some of the acidic rinse agents.

The biggest issue comes down to being able to identify the fiber and understanding if pH correction is needed for stabilization or to undo someone's elses cleaning mistakes.

If that last sentence about pH confuses you, its time to take a class so you can start to correctly identify differnt types of carpet fibers at very least and understand some of the cleaning challenges that surround them.

Edit: I should make mention that this is all assuming the method being used is Hot Water Extraction utilizing Truckmounted Equipment.

Other methods do exist and are still very valid in the right situation.
 

roro

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sweendogg said:
WELCOME TO MIKEYS BOARD!! :mrgreen:


Alright I'll take the civil approach.

Here is the error of your thinking..

Me too ; there are just too many errors to correct Mr Sween :p

roro
 

Ron Werner

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Very few cleaners worth their salt will One step clean, just go right in with a rotary or wand using an alkaline cleaner/rinse.

Most guys(and girls 8) ) clean by prespray-rinse (usually a alkaline rinse) - Two step cleaning

The obvious next ad-on is a prescrub. I have a repeat sheetmetal office I clean that I thought I could get away with a stronger prespray with an alky rinse. Didn't work. Scrubbed it with a Whittaker and it made ALL the difference.

And for those that want to go the extra step, Prevacuum. Get all the loose soil out of the way first and its no longer part of the cleaning equation.
 

hogjowl

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Sometimes ... like every forever and then ... you have to prescrub.

For those times, a 175 does the best and ...

you'd darn sure better charge double!
 

Jimmy L

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So many knowitall opinions.........I am so confused.

I think I'll just hang out with the nonothings over on ***.
 

Mikey P

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If you want to stand out form the nonothing crowd, which is full of lazy burnt out janitors like Murty, get yourself a Rotary Extractor.


You see this industry is full of morons who think just a wand is good enough.
 

idreadnought

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One step approach: Run an alkaline cleaning agent through the machine and extract

Two step: Pre-spray the carpet and then run either an alkaline or acid agent through the machine.

Three step approach. Pre-spray aggitate either manually or power machine and rinse with an alkaline or acidic agent through machine.

After talking to some of the top chemists in this industry, I believe the cleaning agent you use through your machine will leave very little resoiling residue if metered properly(my opinion as well as opinion of top chemists in the industry)

Additional steps could be

Pre-vacuum
deodorizing
grooming
advanced spotting
neatralizing

Hope that helps, Now go take a class, work for someone for free for a while and use the search feature, tons of information out there if you really want to learn.
 

J Scott W

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David and Richard offered some good information that fits directly with the question you asked. T o simplify, I don't usually suggest spraying on anything after you extract. (Even if official company policy is to do a post spray with fab-Set.)

I suggest using an acid side rinse like End Zone for residential carpet. Use whatever it takes on commercial.
 
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