Why would a manufacturer spend thousands of dollars getting CRI approval for their truckmounts but not have any of their cleaners listed? When the program was first started some were amazed that cleaning solutions of a major manufacturer didn't perform any better than water. Since reading that and even today there still are no cleaning solutions from that manufacturer I haven't bought any of their products.
Reading Between the Lines
- Thread starter Andy
- Start date
Desk Jockey
Member
hogjowl
Idiot™
Is there a point to this?
Desk Jockey
Member
Yes but if you wear a hat. Nobody will notice. 
Dikhed! lol
Dikhed! lol
hogjowl
Idiot™
Hey, that was pretty good.
encapman
Member
Reading between the lines a little deeper...
Another factor might be that it's costly for a manufacturer to procure CRI approval. And approving multiple products makes becomes even more costly. They may also be wondering, who truly cares? It seems that the majority of cleaners are not incredibly impressed with certification. Perhaps the vendor you're referring to has similar thoughts. My point is - there may be more to the picture, when you read between the lines a little deeper.
Another factor might be that it's costly for a manufacturer to procure CRI approval. And approving multiple products makes becomes even more costly. They may also be wondering, who truly cares? It seems that the majority of cleaners are not incredibly impressed with certification. Perhaps the vendor you're referring to has similar thoughts. My point is - there may be more to the picture, when you read between the lines a little deeper.
A company as big as the one I am talking about, the testing fee would be a drop in the bucket, especially if it was only for one or two of their cleaners. I have used their equipment but I won't use their cleaning product because of it. If they thought it was a good program for their equipment they probably had cleaners tested also and they didn't perform like they were supposed to.
Old Coastie
Supportive Member
Most days I'm glad I don't geddit.
Larry Cobb
Member
Most manufacturers have found the process to have "very little value".
We got a good performing Prespray approved, and only sold minimal quantities over the years.
It is just another added expense for the cleaners to pay for.
How much actual value does it add to a cleaning prespray ??
http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=5274
We got a good performing Prespray approved, and only sold minimal quantities over the years.
It is just another added expense for the cleaners to pay for.
How much actual value does it add to a cleaning prespray ??
http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=5274
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The Great Oz
Member
The chemicals the carpet makers were worried about were from companies that relabeled their hard surface products as carpet cleaners. CRI certification did some good in this regard, as it got Johnson & Johnson and other janitorial suppliers to take the junk product off of the market. Companies that specialized in carpet cleaning were not their target, until they realized there was a pretty good profit to be made from selling certification.
The cost for certification is not a drop in the bucket, unless you think $50k plus per chemical is an easy amount to toss away. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of groups trying to force companies to buy their chemical certifications if they know what's good for them.
Manufacturers, like carpet cleaners, have to decide if certification is worth the cost, and then decide which certification actually means something to their customers.
The cost for certification is not a drop in the bucket, unless you think $50k plus per chemical is an easy amount to toss away. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of groups trying to force companies to buy their chemical certifications if they know what's good for them.
Manufacturers, like carpet cleaners, have to decide if certification is worth the cost, and then decide which certification actually means something to their customers.
Steve Lawrence
Member
shhh, it will only drive up the cost!
If that is the reason then why have equipment certified, they would have been better off not testing their equipment. The testing of equipment that would certify any machine would be to stipulate x amount of pressure, at x amount of flow with an x amount of vacuum will produce Platinum results without damaging the carpet yarn. The only variable that really comes into play is what the cleaning solution would do under those conditions.
I use a truckmount and can get any temperature I need, any pressure I want, change the tips to get any flow I want. What I cannot do is tell by a label whether that cleaning solution is going to do the job that it is supposed to do, which is to clean the carpet and to rinse cleanly.
I already hurt his feelings this morning. Don't add to it
Doug Rice
Supportive Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2011
- Messages
- 425
Larry Cobb
Member
Andy;
There are several performance attributes CRI SOA cleaning products are evaluated on:
One aspect is the complete lack of oily soil in the test protocol.
The pH of 4 to 10 would exclude many presprays used today (including prespray of the day here)
So, the CRI SOA approval is not required by cleaners.
There are several performance attributes CRI SOA cleaning products are evaluated on:
- Soil Removal Efficacy: How effective is the product at removing soil?
- Resoiling: Does the cleaned sample attract soil at an accelerated rate or not?
- Colorfastness: Does the product cause a color change in the carpet fiber?
- pH Level: Is the level between 4 and 10 on a pH scale?
- Optical Brighteners: Does the product contain optical brighteners? None are allowed for SOA certification.
One aspect is the complete lack of oily soil in the test protocol.
The pH of 4 to 10 would exclude many presprays used today (including prespray of the day here)
So, the CRI SOA approval is not required by cleaners.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
It's all about the money.
Desk Jockey
Member
We clean with lower PH to be within that frame work.
I am unaware of any change in the PH limitations. I don't want to Cowboy through it and later be responsible for it.
I hear the Carpet Cleaning Police can be ruthless.
Desk Jockey
Member
You mean bastard!
Larry Cobb
Member
I think CRI had good intentions with the Seal of Approval program.
They wanted carpet cleaning equipment & chemicals to properly maintain their customer's carpets (ie warranties).
The testing lab charges are where the money went.
Of course, the shift from nylon to less expensive fibers
also damaged their reputation & market share.
P.S. Richard; It is very difficult to stay within the pH range of 4 to 10.
Desk Jockey
Member
Agreed but we don't clean shit holes. Mostly we clean, clean carpet. Easy stuff with not much demand needed from the chemistry.
We clean with lower PH to be within that frame work.
I am unaware of any change in the PH limitations. I don't want to Cowboy through it and later be responsible for it.
I hear the Carpet Cleaning Police can be ruthless.
I go high as hell on Smart Strand, and call them out for not backing their warranty to my custy's.. I had one inspector call me. He was looking to pin it on me! We talked a while, and he said "don't you think it's normal ware and tare" I said "that's the problem, it's garbage"!! He got quiet, and said "After 30 year inspecting carpet I'm glad I'm getting out"!
I call them out all the time, and the ones they go to I have nuked!! Never have they said anything about the high PH in the carpet, and you know they would LOVE to pin it on me!!
Side note:I don't work or care to work for carpet installers..
They all hate me anyway!
Desk Jockey
Member
I just don't care for any liability for something as simple as carpet cleaning. We adjust with agitation, dwell time and heat. We have enough exposure from other services we offer.I go high as hell on Smart Strand, and call them out for not backing their warranty to my custy's.. I had one inspector call me. He was looking to pin it on me! We talked a while, and he said "don't you think it's normal ware and tare" I said "that's the problem, it's garbage"!! He got quiet, and said "After 30 year inspecting carpet I'm glad I'm getting out"!
I call them out all the time, and the ones they go to I have nuked!! Never have they said anything about the high PH in the carpet, and you know they would LOVE to pin it on me!!
Side note:I don't work or care to work for carpet installers..
We cheat because we don't do apartments, restaurants or rentals. We see pretty easy stuff.
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hogjowl
Idiot™
I just quietly go about being the best carpet cleaner I can be.
I don't fight anybody's battles
And I try not to create any enemies
Except for here
I don't fight anybody's battles
And I try not to create any enemies
Except for here
But, when you have a custy that just put smart strand silk in and paid more then $15,000 for it, and it looks like chit after a year.. You wouldn't pipe up!? They will throw you under the bus in a second..
You sold carpet, I guess we look at it differently..
You sold carpet, I guess we look at it differently..
hogjowl
Idiot™
I stay out of it.
No good deed goes unpunished
No good deed goes unpunished
Desk Jockey
Member
You can't win as a cleaner. The homeowner will say "my cleaner said".
You make no friends with anyone. Not the homeower, retailer, or manufacturer. It's a losing proposition.
You make no friends with anyone. Not the homeower, retailer, or manufacturer. It's a losing proposition.
