Rotovac "must have" brush head- Is it mill approved?

[ruff]

Oh, the cynicism of the crusty old karpet kleeners.

Unlike the super enthusiastic youngens like Russ, who left their competition in the swirls. Or Marky Mark- the world's most documented, enthused, exceptionally good willed, hyper cleaner.

Some of us old (we've seen it before oh so many times types) wonder: Will a brush on a machine that rotates at about 300 rpm (or whatever) cause damage to the carpet. Will it untwist the heat set yarn, particularly yet not limited to low heat set carpet. Yes I know it is lubricated with water, but is that enough? A shampoo brush is lubricated with water and shampoo and no real heat. Big difference.

Now, before we get lots of opinions, I'd like it to be backed up with an endorsement of the mills or CRI or one of them saintly organizations. Just like the CRB machines did. Cause........well.............lets face it- talk is cheap. And we crusted types are less and less trusting as we further shrink. (less gullible?)

And in case there is a warranty claim (did anybody say blooming?) (And yes, I know exactly what their warranty is worth.) who's gonna be left holding the bag?

The manufacturers?
Wanna bet?

 

[Russ T.]

I've wondered if the RotoVac could've come from the factory with slightly less aggressive brushes.

Good questions Ofer, I'm interested in hearing the answers.

 

[ruff]

The norm with shampoo brushes has been to break them in by running them on concrete for about half an hour. (Do remove vacuum shoes).
Great mental preparation for the fast and exciting life of stone polishing.

None the less, even when broken in.....

 

[Desk Jockey]

Hey you left me out! Marty says everything is about me. How can you post and leave "me" out?

 

[ruff]

When I said, "brush head", who'd you think I was referring to?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Why that Ye.

I was feeling quite left out for a moment there.

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

I think they say no rotary pads, brushes or bonnets.

 

[Russ T.]

Once the customer has waited too long to have the carpet cleaned, they void their warranty. That's really where the rotary extractors shine anyway. Hardly any of my customers would have cared for their carpet sufficiently to maintain their warranty to Mill standard.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Exactly....more for the trashed carpets in rentals anyway.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

The "official answer" should be given by someone representing the mills, of course.

A few thoughts from someone who surely has not been on their side, and if you've been here long enough to have read my "jeremiads" against the CRI when MB began 10 years ago, you'll know I'm not "their boy" in any sense.

That said, they still don't approve rotary brushes of any sort, or bonnets. They have given their nod to rotary jet extractors, but with the addition to the brush to the system, I'm fairly confident there will be a "thumbs down" from them.

This goes back to the use of "Seal of Approval" cleaning agents, and even further back to the oft quoted "the pH had to be 10 or under" rules that go back 30 years (!) now.

Most products that have a pH of 10 will dramatically affect the stain resistance on nylon...not that nylon is that big of a part of the market today, but it bears saying. That rule was arbitary, and created a whole class of supposedly "stain resist safe" products that if tested, were surely not safe.

But we went on just fine in this business because, as Russ so wisely said:

" Hardly any of my customers would have cared for their carpet sufficiently to maintain their warranty to Mill standard."

Final thought (in lieu of a "PS", which would pique Marty's ire):

Should you be involved in cleaning a carpet on a regular basis for a customer who does so to maintain their warranty, you should consider the pH of your products, the guidelines of the mills, and the type of tools that you use. When you are fortunate to have such customers, you'll surely see that their carpets don't require brute force to be cleaned.

Thank you....rant done...for now.

 

[Todd Millar]

I think the roto brush head has its place (trashed rentals, etc....) but like Pemberton pointed out for the custy that maintains their carpets it would be over kill.
For me it nice to have different tools at my disposal and knowing when to use them that makes the difference.
Just like solutions, there isn't that does it all , you have use your brain and common sense to provide the best cleaning possible for you customers.

 

[Mark Saiger]

The "official answer" should be given by someone representing the mills, of course.

A few thoughts from someone who surely has not been on their side, and if you've been here long enough to have read my "jeremiads" against the CRI when MB began 10 years ago, you'll know I'm not "their boy" in any sense.

That said, they still don't approve rotary brushes of any sort, or bonnets. They have given their nod to rotary jet extractors, but with the addition to the brush to the system, I'm fairly confident there will be a "thumbs down" from them.

This goes back to the use of "Seal of Approval" cleaning agents, and even further back to the oft quoted "the pH had to be 10 or under" rules that go back 30 years (!) now.

Most products that have a pH of 10 will dramatically affect the stain resistance on nylon...not that nylon is that big of a part of the market today, but it bears saying. That rule was arbitary, and created a whole class of supposedly "stain resist safe" products that if tested, were surely not safe.

But we went on just fine in this business because, as Russ so wisely said:

" Hardly any of my customers would have cared for their carpet sufficiently to maintain their warranty to Mill standard."

Final thought (in lieu of a "PS", which would pique Marty's ire):

Should you be involved in cleaning a carpet on a regular basis for a customer who does so to maintain their warranty, you should consider the pH of your products, the guidelines of the mills, and the type of tools that you use. When you are fortunate to have such customers, you'll surely see that their carpets don't require brute force to be cleaned.

Thank you....rant done...for now.

I think the roto brush head has its place (trashed rentals, etc....) but like Pemberton pointed out for the custy that maintains their carpets it would be over kill.
For me it nice to have different tools at my disposal and knowing when to use them that makes the difference.
Just like solutions, there isn't that does it all , you have use your brain and common sense to provide the best cleaning possible for you customers.

I believe the comments made are very accurate....

Not every carpet needs to have the daylights scrubbed out of it (or the fiber) and that is why some of my clients do not need this type of rotary extraction or aggressive cleaning.

Maintained carpets are no problem to use basic cleaning techniques of wand and sometimes gentle or no agitation.

How often do we see them....on occasion to very often....fortunately....

But when I need the brute force....I have that ready at my disposal too.....and thus very satisfied clients...who probably waited too long an voided their warranty....often......

 

[Mikey P]

In Ofer's mind, Vibram soles void warranties as well.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

In Ofer's mind, Vibram soles void warranties as well.

Perhaps, but Ofer's mind is also one of the best here.

My guess is the thread he started will be a thought provoking one....Mikeysboard at its best!

 

[Mikey P]

I've used a brush head now on a variety of piles types.

No distortion noted.


But a lot of yarn in the Devestator in garbage carpet ( poly) situations

 

[Mark Saiger]

I've used a brush head now on a variety of piles types.

No distortion noted.


But a lot of yarn in the Devestator in garbage carpet ( poly) situations

Same here...no distortion seen....

 

[Mikey P]

I ask Rotovac if they experimented with using less brushes to see if the same effect could be achived with fewer bristles.

No.


If Sapphire persues designing a brush feature to the HOSS, I'd suggest they start small..

We all saw the huge effect that a simple vac shoe change produced when they came out with the plastic block option.

To reflect, The brush on the RV speeds up production, cleanes with lower pressure and cleans much deeper and more thoroughly. No srreaking which if you recall was a huge issue for the same brusless vac port configuration.

 

[ruff]

In Ofer's mind, Vibram soles void warranties as well.

Love Vibram soles.
Particularly when I kick butt

It seems like, the majority here seem to take things without a grain of salt. Particularly coming from "guru" types. This brush head, the latest "must have" was mostly pushed as an every day use tool. Hardly ever mentioned that it is a last resort type tool.

And the lots of yarn in the filter means exactly what it says: Lots of yarn is stripped off the carpet due to too aggressive brush. The very reason why some mills did not allow certain vacuum cleaners (someone say original Dyson) whose brushes were too aggressive and damaged the carpet. Strip too much yarn, too many times and see what happens.

 

[Mikey P]

Rotary extractor use is for filthy carpets Ofer.

Yarn loss is always a factor in any restoration method.


Let me guess, lint filters are another must have have tool of the week that you don't believe in.

If all you use is dwell time, too much/ strong of chems and a glided wand, I'd dare say that Guerkinkettes are removing more soil than you are.

 

[ruff]

Well, now that its in the open, good!

Could you get me in touch with the Guerkinkettes?

 

[Mikey P]

Are you ready to sell your soul?

 

[ruff]

Well..................what am I getting in return?

and.....can I sell Chavez's instead?

 

[Russ T.]

I just went to the brush head a couple weeks ago. I don't want to give the impression that I've used it every day on every job for years.

I didn't break mine in but began by cleaning several apartments and being thrilled with the results. I didn't notice any significant carpet fibers in my Devastator filter, and I at least look at it after every job. It has a clear lid so I can see into it.

Then I ran into a pretty rough residential. I'm not positive what type of carpet it was (maybe SmartStrand?? Ofer and Mike will know )but I guess it wasn't poly. It was big and full of spotting but not a crazy amount of soil.

It worked great.

I've since used it on several apartments and a couple other smaller residentials.

I'm definitely going to be careful. I didn't even know what tip blooming was a few years ago.

 

[The Great Oz]

I'm definitely going to be careful. I didn't even know what tip blooming was a few years ago.

Tip bloom is probably more of a concern with brush use than overall pile distortion, unless you can't remove those swirlies either.

Tip bloom leads to felting, even (or maybe especially) with crummy carpet. Trashed carpet? Probably no worries, but there is a risk you'll buy a carpet or two if you get too aggressive with any brush.


PS: Ofer needs his own room. Curmudgeon Corner. I'd subscribe for that.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

PS: Ofer needs his own room. Curmudgeon Corner. I'd subscribe for that.

Me too. I find myself feeling like one of those guys in the balcony in the old Muppets Show these days....

 

[Nate The Great]

 

[ruff]

Coming from third world country and all. Luckily, I don't really understand the meaning of these complicated words.

.....and I'm not gonna ask for a translation, either.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Perhaps, but Ofer's mind is also one of the best here.

But just his "mind" right?

 

[ruff]

Look who's back.
Still got your soul or do the Guerkinkettes own it?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Look who's back.
Still got your soul or do the Guerkinkettes own it?

Soul? I sold that thing many, many moons ago.
Couldn't hep it, got a damn good price for it.

I'm Super bad!