Mikey P
Administrator
I think many a distributor were hoping/planing on the selling of SS to be the death of them.
Sapphire Scientific sold to RPM!
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
ruff
Member
Ken Snow said:
Ken,
Not sure what you were doing while the shenanigans on wall street were happening- are happening. Wake up buddy.
Publicly traded companies supposedly take care of their investors first which means increase the stock price.
As many companies did (were you sleeping?) many CEO get compensated (handsomely and beyond belief) with shares of their companies. They have a vested interest in hyping the stock value for the short term. There are no CEOs or none that I've heard of, who have tied the value of their stock compensation to, say it's value in 10 years after they left. Therefore they have no vested interest in long term decisions that may mean short term loss yet long term gain, for their own companies. Long term decisions may be the most important ones. They want the highest price when they sell.
To increase share value a publicly traded company has to keep growing very aggressively (innovate if they can or at the beginning) than buy other companies than slash costs (see Karcher).
Yes there are exceptions and the world is not black and white, however ususally things regress to the mean.
Wake up uncle Kenny.
P.S. Non publicly traded companies owners operators for example, are private and as such there is no pretense to their profit motives. Unlike multy-truck companies that work mostly on commission and up sells.
However, small (and great if I may add) owner operated companies know that if they don't take good care of their clients they will go out of business. As opposed to publicly traded companies who get their funding from the public = stocks.
joe harper
Member
"Is it possible.......??????"
That the Foreign investors in "SS".....FreAkEd.....at the course this ECONOMY is heading into.. :shock:
Then decided to "CUT-THEIR-LOSSES"....and DumP their investment in "SS"... :idea:
In a prior post..."I" theorized that "SS"..were possibly looking to acquire Interlink or Jon Don !gotcha!
As "SS" bulked-up to purchase market share...The economy TANKED....
Possibly OvErEsTimAtInG....the value of this INDUSTRY's .....ROI....
Seems to me ....The took their BATTLE PLAN ....and found a SucKeR...to BUY-IT.... :shock:
"SOME DAYS YOU EAT THE BEAR.....&....SOME DAYS THE BEAR EATS YOU..... :!: "
We will KNOW when the #'s are dIsCloSed...... :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
"One thing is CERTAIN........Someone took an EXPENSIVE.....hAir-cUT....
That the Foreign investors in "SS".....FreAkEd.....at the course this ECONOMY is heading into.. :shock:
Then decided to "CUT-THEIR-LOSSES"....and DumP their investment in "SS"... :idea:
In a prior post..."I" theorized that "SS"..were possibly looking to acquire Interlink or Jon Don !gotcha!
As "SS" bulked-up to purchase market share...The economy TANKED....
Possibly OvErEsTimAtInG....the value of this INDUSTRY's .....ROI....
Seems to me ....The took their BATTLE PLAN ....and found a SucKeR...to BUY-IT.... :shock:
"SOME DAYS YOU EAT THE BEAR.....&....SOME DAYS THE BEAR EATS YOU..... :!: "
We will KNOW when the #'s are dIsCloSed...... :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
"One thing is CERTAIN........Someone took an EXPENSIVE.....hAir-cUT....
Jim Bethel
Member
Harper, I like you man – but I don’t even know where to start with your post to highlight some of your mis-statements. I know a little more than most about this – (and obviously a lot less than the head honcho’s at Legends do). RPM are no “suckers” as you put it, and own VERY successful businesses. Quite a few of your points couldn’t be further than the truth – but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I don’t know you personally and aren’t aware of your complete background, but I believe you are quite the successful businessman. However, dealing with big blue chip companies and their corporate ethos and ideals are quite different to small and medium business. Without knowing the full state of play, we can all speculate as much as we like, but only those directly involved at high levels understand this situation in its entirety. I know a little bit of this situation, and I am politely saying that no one “freaked” or took an expensive “haircut”.
If I offered you a nice chuck of change for your business, would you take it?? Most things are for sale (whether they are advertised or not) as most people have a price. If you were happy with the price and conditions and decided to sell, does that make it "CERTAIN........Someone took an EXPENSIVE.....hAir-cUT...." 8) Not at all. The devil is in the details.
Hope I don’t get shot for being the first Sapphire dealer to open my mouth on the subject…..but here goes.
Personally, I think it will be a good thing. I have spoken with some of the head Sapphire team members about this, and they are genuinely happy and enthusiastic about the new structure. Because quite a few of the key staff have been at other corporations that have been taken over by larger entities, they know what to look out for.
There were a few dealers that would have had an idea something like this may have been in the pipeline – so I don’t think it is too much of a shock. Nothing really changes from a distribution point of view. The same high quality machines are being designed and manufactured for carpet cleaners the world over.
This is yet another step in the right direction for Legends, as now things can happen even quicker as most of the key guys will have more autonomy now under the new structure, than they had previously. For us, we are happy with it, as everything is the same – especially the staff (which is the most important) and they are backed by a much larger entity now.
This acquisition has far more benefits than negatives. Keep an eye on what happens in the near future at Legends !gotcha!
I don’t know you personally and aren’t aware of your complete background, but I believe you are quite the successful businessman. However, dealing with big blue chip companies and their corporate ethos and ideals are quite different to small and medium business. Without knowing the full state of play, we can all speculate as much as we like, but only those directly involved at high levels understand this situation in its entirety. I know a little bit of this situation, and I am politely saying that no one “freaked” or took an expensive “haircut”.
If I offered you a nice chuck of change for your business, would you take it?? Most things are for sale (whether they are advertised or not) as most people have a price. If you were happy with the price and conditions and decided to sell, does that make it "CERTAIN........Someone took an EXPENSIVE.....hAir-cUT...." 8) Not at all. The devil is in the details.
Mikey P said:
Hope I don’t get shot for being the first Sapphire dealer to open my mouth on the subject…..but here goes.
Personally, I think it will be a good thing. I have spoken with some of the head Sapphire team members about this, and they are genuinely happy and enthusiastic about the new structure. Because quite a few of the key staff have been at other corporations that have been taken over by larger entities, they know what to look out for.
There were a few dealers that would have had an idea something like this may have been in the pipeline – so I don’t think it is too much of a shock. Nothing really changes from a distribution point of view. The same high quality machines are being designed and manufactured for carpet cleaners the world over.
This is yet another step in the right direction for Legends, as now things can happen even quicker as most of the key guys will have more autonomy now under the new structure, than they had previously. For us, we are happy with it, as everything is the same – especially the staff (which is the most important) and they are backed by a much larger entity now.
This acquisition has far more benefits than negatives. Keep an eye on what happens in the near future at Legends !gotcha!
Ken Snow
RIP
Ok Ofer- if that get's you to sleep at night that is cool.
Personally this doesn't surprise me. I think we will be seeing much more of this over the next few years. Our local (four store) distributor recently sold out to Interlink. That too is being showcased as a Merger/acquisition but the fact is they were in serious trouble (lots of debt) and had to sell for a greatly reduced valuation. There are no carpet cleaning related businesses selling for high valuations right now. I'm part of an investment group that recently bought three fast food locations. We got them for roughly 15% of what it costs to open them, and picked up huge accumulated tax losses (the losses can be written off against future profits for up to twenty years) as part of the deal. We get sale sheets from literally hundreds of business brokers and auction houses/ bankruptcy courts and everything that is selling is selling for a small fraction of "book" value. I have yet to see any of the carpet cleaning companies listed actually sell and there have been over 50 of them over the last 18 months. A janitorial supply house that was doing over $2,000,000 in sales and had a twenty five year track record sold for only $225,000 and that included the real estate that was accessed at $140,000. Lots of deals out there. If you want to diversify your business interests and are confident in your ability to do a turn around, then this is the time. It's a buyers market and difficult to get acquisition financing through traditional banks so you need cash or alternative sources of financing.
The day of the small local distributor in our industry is coming to a crashing end (unfortunately in my opinion). Very hard to get financing and sales volumes have plummeted. Getting a lease approved requires credit ratings that only a very few carpet cleaners have. Lot's of leases getting turned down. Truck Mount sales will remain flat for years regardless of some of the claims being made by a few sellers. We will probably see another truck mount manufacturer close up before the end of the year because they are teetering on a cliff of debt.
When tons of carpet cleaners are disappearing and the new start-ups don't enjoy the easy financing of yesterday then manufacturers will sell much less. That will continue for the foreseeable future. The good news is you guys that have your "act together" and operate like a business have tremendous opportunity.We will just have fewer vendors to buy from and the guys disappearing may very well be our friends, which is tough to watch. My carpet business is actually growing again by "real steps" for the first time in five years and we will be up this year over last by probably 30%. After five very rough years that's encouraging. Very interesting times. Watch you accounts receivable very closely and be very careful about buying anything you don't really need right now.
The day of the small local distributor in our industry is coming to a crashing end (unfortunately in my opinion). Very hard to get financing and sales volumes have plummeted. Getting a lease approved requires credit ratings that only a very few carpet cleaners have. Lot's of leases getting turned down. Truck Mount sales will remain flat for years regardless of some of the claims being made by a few sellers. We will probably see another truck mount manufacturer close up before the end of the year because they are teetering on a cliff of debt.
When tons of carpet cleaners are disappearing and the new start-ups don't enjoy the easy financing of yesterday then manufacturers will sell much less. That will continue for the foreseeable future. The good news is you guys that have your "act together" and operate like a business have tremendous opportunity.We will just have fewer vendors to buy from and the guys disappearing may very well be our friends, which is tough to watch. My carpet business is actually growing again by "real steps" for the first time in five years and we will be up this year over last by probably 30%. After five very rough years that's encouraging. Very interesting times. Watch you accounts receivable very closely and be very careful about buying anything you don't really need right now.
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Right on the money Randy!
ruff
Member
Ken Snow said:
Such civility and composure, as to make me honored and overwhelmed.
Yes, I slept well.
Though, inquiring minds would like to know: Is going public in the futures of the men in the purple trucks?
hogjowl
Idiot™
I know pig farmers from Alabama are not always up on the important things in life in relation to the rest of the world, but I can't help but think that IDGAS about this and wonder why the rest of you care?
ruff
Member
We, however, as small business owners (most of us here on this board) should decide who we are going to support.
My money mostly, will go to the local and or independent guys, rather than the big honcho companies.
I am a small business owner and I will support like businesses.
What about you?
My money mostly, will go to the local and or independent guys, rather than the big honcho companies.
I am a small business owner and I will support like businesses.
What about you?
ruff
Member
Has it occurred to you that maybe because YDGAS, you are a pig farmer in Alabama?Marty said:
hogjowl
Idiot™
I am right there with you in that regard. I have become less and less prone to order long distance and pay shipping for products that are priced the same and don't work any better than what I can get from my local supplier. Unless you are buying off brand products from some obscure janitorial supplier, the things available locally are just as good as the latest board favorites.
Good Post Randy.......
so long as the places i deal with dont go out of biz shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin
and man i am ready to buy a new truck and trailer to......but have been on the fence due to all the unknown, only problem is, how much $$ do i chunk into the current one????
so long as the places i deal with dont go out of biz shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin
and man i am ready to buy a new truck and trailer to......but have been on the fence due to all the unknown, only problem is, how much $$ do i chunk into the current one????
Marty said:
you are wrong in that last part marty...unless you really dont pay attention to cost, and or use of it....
While i still cant wrap my head around Les math on the 0-2.....
the slop and gobble for damn near anything is damn cheap to use......more so on nasties where you have to bump your "local" guys chems....
hogjowl
Idiot™
It's hard to beat an $18 gallon of Max 321 and no shipping. Even if you are paying $24 a gallon for something like Versaclean, if you are getting it locally, then why ship anything in? I dare you to look around and actually shop your local guy. Don't just take it for granted because you see your favorite posters talking up a product.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Oh, and another thing ... you mentioned "bump" ... I suppose if I found myself having to "bump" a product then I would shop else where.
However, I have not found it necessary to adjust the ratio or add other products to what I can obtain locally.
Here again, I think guys read so often other bulletin board posters talking about boosting presprays so much that they create a self fufilling prophesy in that area.
Spray and dwell ... it really is that simple if you have a good product ... and good products are a dime a dozen these days.
However, I have not found it necessary to adjust the ratio or add other products to what I can obtain locally.
Here again, I think guys read so often other bulletin board posters talking about boosting presprays so much that they create a self fufilling prophesy in that area.
Spray and dwell ... it really is that simple if you have a good product ... and good products are a dime a dozen these days.
uh ok, well havent heard of those.....and googling the names didnt help....
I have interlink, a flunky of interlink, and John which has prochem stuff, some cti, and a few others...but not much else out here....oh and steamaction which has some chemspec stuff, which the few i tried, almost made me vomit from the smell....
ohhh and have i mentioned how many cleaners make their own??? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
A few places i stop and chat with the (usually no very friendly) cleaner....either him or his flunky....oh he makes his own....i dunno whats in it....
makes me laugh
I have interlink, a flunky of interlink, and John which has prochem stuff, some cti, and a few others...but not much else out here....oh and steamaction which has some chemspec stuff, which the few i tried, almost made me vomit from the smell....
ohhh and have i mentioned how many cleaners make their own??? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
A few places i stop and chat with the (usually no very friendly) cleaner....either him or his flunky....oh he makes his own....i dunno whats in it....
makes me laugh
The Great Oz
Member
This is where a larger well-funded company comes in. Big companies either have their own finance departments or can share risk with a partner lender. They can afford to provide financing on better terms than outside lenders in order to move units. Even a repo unit can be resold to someone else that has less than stellar credit.
I grew up near an army base and got to know some of the used car dealers that catered to GIs. They would often sell and repo the same cars over and over, as the accumulated down payments more than offset the costs of getting the car back to resell.
Truckmount dealers can make money this way if they have the reach to get the units back.
ruff
Member
I am more than willing to absorb some extra price and not support the Wallmart-ization of the industry.
joe harper
Member
HARPER said:I am happy for BIll & crew.... 8)
However.....This may be more of a BAIL-OUT....than a profitable acquisition... :idea:
Horrible market for this Industry....CASH IS KING...!
I can only assume RPM...made ONE HELL OF A DEAL... !gotcha!
Simply follows the 10 year trend....of MONEY....BUYING-OUT competition...rather than
competing in the MARKET PLACE...
PURCHASE ...."Market Share" ....GO PUBLIC...INFLATE VALUE OF THE STOCK...SKIM ALL
THE PROFIT...DUMP THE DEBT ON THE STOCKHOLDERS..."Then ride off into the SunSeT"
"THE RICH GET RICHER".................Welcome to CroNY cApiTaLisM....
Congrats Anyway....!!!!!!
I Hope you & your employees are in a better place... :!:
Jim,
You obviously missed this PRIOR post... :?:
Just playing dEvIl's AdvOcAtE... :roll:
You are correct in your statement that you DO NOT know my business credentials... !gotcha!
I have been on the ground floor in an ATTEMPT to take a "green" lighting company PUBLIC..!!!
We inevitability SOLD the company to a LARGE grocery chain that we were providing 3 million in service to... :idea: You also may NOT know that we were the PERSONAL CARRIER for the
transport of a fellow named General Schwarzkopf during his speaking engagements...!!!!
Try acquiring a 135 certificate...from the FAA..."It is MUCH more difficult than the RED TAPE
of taking a company PUBLIC..." :idea: Our pilot flew for the GENERAL in Vietnam...He would
NOT fly with any other HELO-PILOT..."While in FL."
BTW this was just an AQUISITION...in the case of "SS"... :roll:
AS I HAVE STATED...!!!!!!!!!! I wish everyone well in this AQUITION... 8)
I understand your "CYA" post....You have a vested interest in this transaction...!
I have researched this transaction further....And .....IMHO it is a CLASSIC case study in
"RedNeCK bUsInEss"....LOGIC.....
"TWO RULES OF BUSINESS"
#1 Pay what they want to get in..............
#2 Take what they will give to get out.......
Ps....The "HaTcHEt" will come soon enough...
Lots of BIG-TIME players...."changed horses in the middle of the street"...their days are #ed.!
pps...Many men...enter into a LEGAL arrangement for the ENTIRE woman....KNOWING that
their are only certain PARTS...That they are intending to USE..... :idea:
J Scott W
Member
Well, there is at least one family-owned and not publicly trade chemical manufacturer around.
There is a group of independently owned distributors who band together to take advantage of the cost savings when buying and advertising.
I want to thank you for being so passionate in your support of Bridgepoint brand products and Interlink Supply distributors. somewhat amus
There is a group of independently owned distributors who band together to take advantage of the cost savings when buying and advertising.
I want to thank you for being so passionate in your support of Bridgepoint brand products and Interlink Supply distributors. somewhat amus
hogjowl
Idiot™
I have always listed a caveat regarding actually HAVING a good local distributor. Many places have none, and often those that do have a local "dist" really have a janitorial supply house with the worst carpet cleaning chems available. If you do have a good local source, it's a good idea to make him your friend.
Desk Jockey
Member
I agree I have top brands just 10-minutes from me and mechanics that know how to fix anything. I buy from him even when I could get some items else where. If I don't, it will only hurt me if he gets out of the business.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Taco ... putting a white dude on your profile will not make you any more popular.
Desk Jockey
Member
LOL
You made me spit ice on that one!
You made me spit ice on that one!
hogjowl
Idiot™
Was that ice in sweet tea?
Desk Jockey
Member
No plain tea.
No sugar.
No sugar.
idreadnought
Supportive Member
I guess I only read the positive. I like the idea that it is so much harder for people to purchase truckmounts nowdays. That means less people getting into the business and or staying in the business. As far as chemical companies that are not publicly traded I can think of several. CTI, Bridgepoint, and Cobbs. Come to think about it those are pretty much the only chemical lines I purchase.
I don't shop local because I am not local to any distributer. I repair all my own equiptment and have all parts and chemicals shipped to me.
Heck I even have reams of paper shipped to me. Why would I drive to the store and fight through a line when I can order it in 2 minutes and it shows up. Same with chemicals. I order it and it shows up, big time saver.
I don't shop local because I am not local to any distributer. I repair all my own equiptment and have all parts and chemicals shipped to me.
Heck I even have reams of paper shipped to me. Why would I drive to the store and fight through a line when I can order it in 2 minutes and it shows up. Same with chemicals. I order it and it shows up, big time saver.
G
Guest
Guest
I hear Sapphire may be in play again. I had dinner last night with a RPM, SEM, 3M distributor who had some interesting comments. RPM is up for sale and 3M is close to buying it. Bit if the sale goes through they are looking at swaping Sapphire and Chemspec in a deal with SEM. Why would they buy LB to sell it? Because they need more weight in the Chemspec deal to make the numbers right. LB and Chemspec look better when you add their numbers. See
http://oriental-rug-cleaning.blogspot.c ... again.html
http://oriental-rug-cleaning.blogspot.c ... again.html
