SFS, HP, or JP or ??
- Thread starter Ron Werner
- Start date
Desk Jockey
Member
Cured can be a subjective word, how about reduced or slowed down or learned appropriate times....................................................................................yes I think you helped Harold. :shock:
:mrgreen:
hogjowl
Idiot™
This thread just went to hell ... :roll:
joe harper
Member
Ron is an OLD DOG.....He is NOT capable of learning NEW tRicKS.... :idea:
He suffers from "OCV" :Obsessive Compulsive Vacuuming:
Ron, seems to be a perfectionest...BRAVO...!
Ron, should "TARGET" client's that DEMAND his type of service..."There are many."
The PROBLEM is these type of clients are also "CHEEP"...
I would rather have Ron clean my carpet's than my OWN company.... :shock:
HIS dilemma is: Does HE continue to do a great job at a competitive price....? Or does HE
do a competitive job at a great price...?
My personal take on Ron: Is that he is a good guy....BUT...He is a "CloSe-tAlkeR"...
This can be be very detrimental & even offensive to the average client.... :idea: Mike's
suggestion has merritt...!!!! The hiring of a FRONT MAN...ie...salesman or better yet saleswoman... :idea: Would greatly advance his company...
This could be achieved by "Ron" assuming the role of TECHNITION...while instructing the
employee to conduct the sale with the client... :!: This is the classic WIN/WIN scenario..!
This could be achieved with a base cleaning price of .25 sf...THEN offering an inspection
pointing out a "laundry list of necessary additional services..!!! Each service being offered
at a rate of .05 per sq ft. additional charge... :idea:
This would allow "RON" to justify "in his mind"....that the client has made a DECISION not
to have their carpet's cleaned to "HIS LEVEL OF PERFECTION"..! "Thus he could sleep at
night...NOT...obSessInG over some DRY SOIL that was NOT removed...
If he were an employee of mine : I would HAVE to fire him on production rates ALONE..
HOWEVER...He is the owner...SO he MUST re-evaluate his business modle & ADJUST...!
I would IMAGINE...that he has to point out the short-commings of other cleaners to JUSTIFY
the significance of TYPE OF PROCESS............."BAD IDEA".........negative sales practices
will ALWAYS "bite you in the ASS"... !gotcha!
Sorry RON...."Just trying to HELP"... :mrgreen:
GROW-UP....or.....CLOSE-UP....!
b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mMb]
He suffers from "OCV" :Obsessive Compulsive Vacuuming:
Ron, seems to be a perfectionest...BRAVO...!
Ron, should "TARGET" client's that DEMAND his type of service..."There are many."
The PROBLEM is these type of clients are also "CHEEP"...
I would rather have Ron clean my carpet's than my OWN company.... :shock:
HIS dilemma is: Does HE continue to do a great job at a competitive price....? Or does HE
do a competitive job at a great price...?
My personal take on Ron: Is that he is a good guy....BUT...He is a "CloSe-tAlkeR"...
This can be be very detrimental & even offensive to the average client.... :idea: Mike's
suggestion has merritt...!!!! The hiring of a FRONT MAN...ie...salesman or better yet saleswoman... :idea: Would greatly advance his company...
This could be achieved by "Ron" assuming the role of TECHNITION...while instructing the
employee to conduct the sale with the client... :!: This is the classic WIN/WIN scenario..!
This could be achieved with a base cleaning price of .25 sf...THEN offering an inspection
pointing out a "laundry list of necessary additional services..!!! Each service being offered
at a rate of .05 per sq ft. additional charge... :idea:
This would allow "RON" to justify "in his mind"....that the client has made a DECISION not
to have their carpet's cleaned to "HIS LEVEL OF PERFECTION"..! "Thus he could sleep at
night...NOT...obSessInG over some DRY SOIL that was NOT removed...
If he were an employee of mine : I would HAVE to fire him on production rates ALONE..
HOWEVER...He is the owner...SO he MUST re-evaluate his business modle & ADJUST...!
I would IMAGINE...that he has to point out the short-commings of other cleaners to JUSTIFY
the significance of TYPE OF PROCESS............."BAD IDEA".........negative sales practices
will ALWAYS "bite you in the ASS"... !gotcha!
Sorry RON...."Just trying to HELP"... :mrgreen:
GROW-UP....or.....CLOSE-UP....!
b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mMb]
Desk Jockey
Member
Yea lets not play this game, someone is bound to get hurt..............and I know it won't be me! 
Desk Jockey
Member
Funny I have trouble with spitting when talking to a young well endowed woman. But being the polite gentleman I am, I'm always quick to wipe them off. :shock:
I meant quick to wipe her off. :roll:
:mrgreen:
I meant quick to wipe her off. :roll:
:mrgreen:
Brian R
Member
My customers were pissed when I jumped off the truck. They got over it and congratulated me. Then I got more customers that never knew the difference.
Ron, customers don't give two shits that you get the carpet THAT clean. They just want it "clean"
You know it, I know it...The American people know it.
You're too hung up on doing the super duper tremendous oh my god what an Fing job I've done to see the big picture.
It's carpet....You should have studied brain surgery bro because that's where your anal personality would pay off.
I just want to be like Mikey and bluntify my posts. :mrgreen:
Oh, and this has been a moment with Brian. 8)
Ron, customers don't give two shits that you get the carpet THAT clean. They just want it "clean"
You know it, I know it...The American people know it.
You're too hung up on doing the super duper tremendous oh my god what an Fing job I've done to see the big picture.
It's carpet....You should have studied brain surgery bro because that's where your anal personality would pay off.
I just want to be like Mikey and bluntify my posts. :mrgreen:
Oh, and this has been a moment with Brian. 8)
hogjowl
Idiot™
And don't forget to buy into Brian's web-site/franchise thingy while you are at it.
Desk Jockey
Member
and my Exceptional Management & Marketing package!!!! :mrgreen:
Ron Werner
Member
Holy cow!!!
Good thing I've been around the board for a while. Things can sure get taken way out into left field!!
If anything Joe, the ones that demand my service are the ones that realize they will pay more, they accept it and are quite willing. In fact, they are the ones that say "Its only that much?"
The cheep ones are those that really don't care how its done, ie a lady just this morning called to have a 260 sf LR and a sofa and loveseat cleaned. She was quite satisifed with her Royal Carpet cleaner, one of those home HWE units, but wasn't sure if she was up to physically doing the cleaning. My price scares people like that, they don't really appreciate any cleaner unless their price is low, and then they are off to the next low priced cleaner. Nothing separates one cleaner from another except for who gets called first and who's price happens to be lower and can they convince the customer that they are trustworthy.
I can tell them the same BS, yes, our tech is uniformed, bonded, will "clean" your carpet to your satisfaction, ie make it look acceptable, it will not take days to dry, nothing will get broke or stolen, the tech won't molest you, the price we quote you is the price you pay, etc etc There are MANY cleaners like that. I can find 20 cleaners plus in this area, incl Chem Dry, that based on those criteria I could refer. So what separates one from another?
Based on everything you've all been saying to me, and I appreciate it, really do, but if I put all of you in the same city, why would I choose one over the other, even Brian. Hell, what separates a "professional" from a homeowner with a $400 Royal that can "clean it"?
Now that said, I have been listening, I only "Wernerize" if its needed, most times I'm moving the vacuum at a decent speed, unless I find an area that needs more attention.
I do this not because I"m OCV or anal about it but because I don't want to get called back for browning along a carpet edge, or stairs, or a spot comes back. Before I went out on my own I had to make a LOT of excuses because I was cleaning without prevac'g, just prespray rinse with a Ninja. Berbers are a hell of a lot easier to clean if I vac them well first. And I certainly am not a "close talker", a talker yes.
So, yes, I can be more "productive" ie clean more jobs in a day at a lower price each
OR I can find those people that are willing to pay more and I do less jobs in a day.
I could be like Greg C and say piss on the odour, just clean it and move on, or I can take that extra time to treat it and flush it with a WC, depends what they want to spend.
Or like a Snow boy, the Flash of carpet cleaners! They do a "good job" but what they hell can you really do moving the wand that fast!!!
And that said, Greg knows busn, Ken knows busn, Mike, Joe, Brian, Jim, Marty, you all know the busn side and can make it profitable. I can clean fast, I just choose not to based on what clients are telling me of previous horror stories. Where I need the training is in managing a busn, managing an employee, etc, I've no "office skills". That and I get distracted doing non busn stuff or non-essential stuff, one being typing out long replies on the board shiteatinggrin
When I get this shit in order, maybe I'll feel more confident about hiring a tech. With a tech helper I can do the same work I am doing now and do it that much faster.
Old dogs CAN learn new tricks, depends on the Dog, and it depends on the bone.
Even with all its bull, and off track humour, this is still the first place I refer people that contact me when interested in info about starting a cleaning busn.
Good thing I've been around the board for a while. Things can sure get taken way out into left field!!
If anything Joe, the ones that demand my service are the ones that realize they will pay more, they accept it and are quite willing. In fact, they are the ones that say "Its only that much?"
The cheep ones are those that really don't care how its done, ie a lady just this morning called to have a 260 sf LR and a sofa and loveseat cleaned. She was quite satisifed with her Royal Carpet cleaner, one of those home HWE units, but wasn't sure if she was up to physically doing the cleaning. My price scares people like that, they don't really appreciate any cleaner unless their price is low, and then they are off to the next low priced cleaner. Nothing separates one cleaner from another except for who gets called first and who's price happens to be lower and can they convince the customer that they are trustworthy.
I can tell them the same BS, yes, our tech is uniformed, bonded, will "clean" your carpet to your satisfaction, ie make it look acceptable, it will not take days to dry, nothing will get broke or stolen, the tech won't molest you, the price we quote you is the price you pay, etc etc There are MANY cleaners like that. I can find 20 cleaners plus in this area, incl Chem Dry, that based on those criteria I could refer. So what separates one from another?
Based on everything you've all been saying to me, and I appreciate it, really do, but if I put all of you in the same city, why would I choose one over the other, even Brian. Hell, what separates a "professional" from a homeowner with a $400 Royal that can "clean it"?
Now that said, I have been listening, I only "Wernerize" if its needed, most times I'm moving the vacuum at a decent speed, unless I find an area that needs more attention.
I do this not because I"m OCV or anal about it but because I don't want to get called back for browning along a carpet edge, or stairs, or a spot comes back. Before I went out on my own I had to make a LOT of excuses because I was cleaning without prevac'g, just prespray rinse with a Ninja. Berbers are a hell of a lot easier to clean if I vac them well first. And I certainly am not a "close talker", a talker yes.
So, yes, I can be more "productive" ie clean more jobs in a day at a lower price each
OR I can find those people that are willing to pay more and I do less jobs in a day.
I could be like Greg C and say piss on the odour, just clean it and move on, or I can take that extra time to treat it and flush it with a WC, depends what they want to spend.
Or like a Snow boy, the Flash of carpet cleaners! They do a "good job" but what they hell can you really do moving the wand that fast!!!
And that said, Greg knows busn, Ken knows busn, Mike, Joe, Brian, Jim, Marty, you all know the busn side and can make it profitable. I can clean fast, I just choose not to based on what clients are telling me of previous horror stories. Where I need the training is in managing a busn, managing an employee, etc, I've no "office skills". That and I get distracted doing non busn stuff or non-essential stuff, one being typing out long replies on the board shiteatinggrin
When I get this shit in order, maybe I'll feel more confident about hiring a tech. With a tech helper I can do the same work I am doing now and do it that much faster.
Old dogs CAN learn new tricks, depends on the Dog, and it depends on the bone.
Even with all its bull, and off track humour, this is still the first place I refer people that contact me when interested in info about starting a cleaning busn.
Desk Jockey
Member
This is the easy stuff, hundreds of books and CD's available.
College and night schools have ton's of classes if you're wanting to do it on your own. Office girls are a dime a dozen and they have they skills to help you and your business at a ridiculously low price.
Chamber of Commerce and local universities usually have business development coaching availble at no charge.
I still think SFS is ground zero for you to start and implement some of what they teach you before moving on.
Brian R
Member
Hell, I don't know how to run a business....I just outsource it to people that do. :mrgreen:
My CPA can make or break me. lol
Ron, aside from the cleaning part there is one rule you should learn and learn now.
Like Mikey said...and I said....and plenty of other successful people have said.....Let go.
You need to have someone else doing the day to day cleaning....You need to run your company.
Go to SFS and learn how. That's the main purpose of the Steve T part of the class.
No job is to difficult when you split it into many small jobs
-Henry Ford
My CPA can make or break me. lol
Ron, aside from the cleaning part there is one rule you should learn and learn now.
Like Mikey said...and I said....and plenty of other successful people have said.....Let go.
You need to have someone else doing the day to day cleaning....You need to run your company.
Go to SFS and learn how. That's the main purpose of the Steve T part of the class.
No job is to difficult when you split it into many small jobs
-Henry Ford
joe harper
Member
Could you START by......Hiring someone to post on this board for YOU.... :roll:
Just reading your post's...Give me the "heeBiE-GeeBie'S".... :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Were you ever in a CaThoLic SemAnRy.... :?: Father Ron... :shock:
Just reading your post's...Give me the "heeBiE-GeeBie'S".... :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Were you ever in a CaThoLic SemAnRy.... :?: Father Ron... :shock:
Joel D
Member
Well this has been hilarious but whats wrong with Ron's business -just the way it is?
Less physical work, less headaches. If someones making 400-1000 a day GOOD ENOUGH, come on! I can see myself cleaning at a very old age if i only had to do 3-5 jobs a week. Who wants to sit at a desk all day anyway? No offense Chavez
Retired men are the most miserable people ive ever seen.
im sure im missing something but oh well
Less physical work, less headaches. If someones making 400-1000 a day GOOD ENOUGH, come on! I can see myself cleaning at a very old age if i only had to do 3-5 jobs a week. Who wants to sit at a desk all day anyway? No offense Chavez
Retired men are the most miserable people ive ever seen.
im sure im missing something but oh well
Desk Jockey
Member
Hey Ron started the thread, he is the one that asked for this abuse, I think he wants to see where he can improve.
Never show weakness with this crowd! shiteatinggrin
none taken.....bassssturd!
I do agree unless you have a plan what are you going to do all day. One can only look at porn for so long before you need a part-time job to keep you busy.
:mrgreen:
Joel D
Member
woops thats right he was asking for help of some sort. i got all confused lol
Royal Man
Member
Just a note:
I'm surprised that such a meticulous cleaner would have only one positive client review.
Would be on place to start to pump things up.
I'm surprised that such a meticulous cleaner would have only one positive client review.
Would be on place to start to pump things up.
I learned along time ago to service some jobs as to the level of service they request.
If that means I have to do apartments or in ghetto areas I will do them if I can make money doing it. There might be times where I won't move furniture or perhaps only do the tops of stairs . But the point is not to limit yourself in this economy to the high end only.
Cut some steps move a little faster spike that prespray a little hotter.
Go outside your comfort zone and know when you have to give 110% and when you can only give 90% and be satisfied with making some money.
And for gawds sake don't wear a BLACK uniform!
If that means I have to do apartments or in ghetto areas I will do them if I can make money doing it. There might be times where I won't move furniture or perhaps only do the tops of stairs . But the point is not to limit yourself in this economy to the high end only.
Cut some steps move a little faster spike that prespray a little hotter.
Go outside your comfort zone and know when you have to give 110% and when you can only give 90% and be satisfied with making some money.
And for gawds sake don't wear a BLACK uniform!
Ron Werner
Member
not catholic
not pushed web reviews
wasn't asking so much for help as I was asking for a critique on the pros and cons of SFS, JP, and HP
Someone at the beginning took this as a chance to push me towards a BIG busn rather than O/O. I've taken Steve Marsh's course, gave me all the marketing material I'll ever need. Its the implementation.
If I knew how to hire people etc, would have done that long ago.
I do outsource my bookkeeping, just dealing with everything else is a challenge. I like the work, not the paper.
Black uniform is gone, though still have a black jacket.
Even new logo so I don't scare you sensitive gents with a winky happy face
and I've been doing just that Jimmy, trying to meet people at their needs, as long as they aren't just price shopping. Been lowering the service to allow for the times.
not pushed web reviews
wasn't asking so much for help as I was asking for a critique on the pros and cons of SFS, JP, and HP
Someone at the beginning took this as a chance to push me towards a BIG busn rather than O/O. I've taken Steve Marsh's course, gave me all the marketing material I'll ever need. Its the implementation.
If I knew how to hire people etc, would have done that long ago.
I do outsource my bookkeeping, just dealing with everything else is a challenge. I like the work, not the paper.
Black uniform is gone, though still have a black jacket.
Even new logo so I don't scare you sensitive gents with a winky happy face
and I've been doing just that Jimmy, trying to meet people at their needs, as long as they aren't just price shopping. Been lowering the service to allow for the times.
Ken Snow
RIP
You know almost nothing about my business Ron. Not sure why or how I got dragged into your defensive tirade or why you feel so insecure about what you do.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Doug Cox
Supportive Member
Bob Foster said:
Mike just smiles at Mrs. Pift and points to his big unit....[/quote:2d2d8862]
LOL!!
Brian R
Member
Rich Little said:
Sez you!
Doug D
Supportive Member
Ron Werner
Member
Ken Snow said:
I know you are very successful financially and employ many people, operating a large multitruck busn. You know how to run a busn.
Ron Werner said:
Ron Werner said:
Ron Werner said:
Ron Werner said:
I could have posted the same thing toward the end of 2007. The last quarter of 2007 work was slower and more sporadic than usual, and not just for me. Then I got killed in 2008. And then I got killed again in 2009. I staggered to my feet in 2010, bloody, bruised, and wrecked.
Starting 2010 and continuing this year I reworked how I delivered my service. I still deliver a high quality clean, and I do so at a price that allows my customers to feel they have received an exceptional value while I feel I have received a fair and equitable compensation for that service - the proverbial "win/win".
Is it possible that your referral customer does not feel like she has scored such a "win" as you are pulling away? I'm not suggesting at all that she is not pleased with your work. In fact, I am sure that she is. But how certain are you that she feels that the service received was commensurate to the price?
Ron Werner said:
If you are not as busy as you want to be, and work is getting slower and sporadic, then perhaps you ought to re-examine the accuracy of your opinion that you are not "over charging by any means ... everyone else is undercharging." Perhaps, my friend, you are all overcharging.
For example, my price for a whole house and a sectional is $488 ($289 carpet & $199 upholstery). I can tell you that if your customer hired me instead of you, she would not be able to distinguish her level of satisfaction with my cleaning from the level of satisfaction she feels with your cleaning. However, she would undoubtedly feel she had received a tremendous value from my service. Can you say that she'd feel that she had received the same sense of value with your service?
I know that you feel that there is no other way than for you to carry on as you have been doing. I hope that if you do continue to do so that you do not find yourself experiencing what I had to go through.
My goal is similar to yours, and I too am a one man operation, and I too do not want to kill myself or become a splash and dash hack. I have no desire to be a multi-truck operator. I want to be responsible only to family, my customers, and myself. I want to feel at the end of the day that I did the best thing I could do for my customers and for me.
That "best thing" is a combination of service and price, the nexus of which is commonly called "value." That "best value" is some combination of service and price that rests at a level at which both you and your customer are left feeling that you have both been as fair to one another and as good to one another as it is possible to be. Value is a scale and the highest value is found in a balance between service and price.
I would suggest that you have not struck that balance, though you likely feel that you have. Steve Toburen would say that you need to put on your "customer goggles" in order to see where that balance might more accurately be judged to be found. You likely do not need SFS, HP, or JP. You simply need to open your mind to the possibility that you are both overcharging and over-delivering. In other words, your value scale is out of balance.
It may also be the case that you could effect the same level of soil removal by other means than you are currently using, but you can do so by finding ways to effect it more efficiently and thus quickly. These efficiencies will enable you do reduce price and still over-deliver. Somewhere in that realm you will find value; and so will your customers. Once they do, work will no longer be slow or sporadic.
Good Luck,
David
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Bang on David.
Except for the part that we are ALL over charging. My business is up a minimum of 35% this year and my net is damn good.
Except for the part that we are ALL over charging. My business is up a minimum of 35% this year and my net is damn good.
Ken Snow
RIP
Ron Werner said:
I know you are very successful financially and employ many people, operating a large multitruck busn. You know how to run a busn.[/quote:1l8ov1uj]
Well, maybe 2 out of 4 of those are correct LOL. Sorry I got triggered Ron. To answer your original question, I think they all have potential things to offer, it just depends on your wants and style. It has been years since I looked at JP stuff. I have been to SFS twice and sent numerous managers as it really does seen a good fit for us (as well as owner operators), and I have been to 2 HP round tables that were very informative. Interestingly Howard asked me to speak at his Roundtable and our prices are about 1/3 of his. We can all learn from others regardless of whether we model our business exactly as they do.
Another thing to consider is going to a 1 day VAST class taught by Jeff Cutshall. He is down to earth and covers a lot of the SFS stuff that is customer focused vs the marketing and business parts of the full week long class.
Ken
