Brian R
Member
I never had a real problem with TMing Berber....I just always thought it was easier and cleaned up just as nice with a bonnet cleaning.
Dried really fast too.
Dried really fast too.
Slow week on Mikey's - this should liven things up
- Thread starter Greg Cole
- Start date
The problm is it doesn't clean up "just as nice". I bonnet cleaned a Berber not too long ago and when I got done I THOUGHT it came out very well, that's until I decided to hit an area with the tm to compare. Let's just say there was NO comparison, there was just as big a difference going from tm to bonnet cleaned as there was going from not cleaned at all to bonnet cleaned. I'm talking night and day.
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Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Ron Werner
Member
gregcole said:
The problem with the less$>less quality cleaners isn't that they are getting what they deserve, its that they misrepresent it to their customers. Their ads don't say:
We don't have to charge as much as the other guy because we do less work.
Their ads typically say they do the same thing as the HQ cleaners but in half the time and half the price.
Its the customer that gets less than what they thought they were getting.
Even IF the customer asks for the "deeper cleaning system" which usually costs them more than what they initially called the company for, ie they called for a $99 house cleaning (a basic cleaning) and they are upsold to the "deluxe cleaning" (ie the cleaners are going to actually use soap!), the customer ends up paying the SAME price they would have with a HQ cleaner. Difference is, they never get that HQ cleaning. They get a cleaning a touch bit better than a basic but at twice the price.
A friend and I cleaned 2rms, hall, stairs, and 4 dining room chairs, with protector, final price with tax ~$500. Took the two of us 3.5hrs. Looked at 2 coupons she had, one had a $129 house pkg, the other $99. They would have done their work in an hour or less.
Don't try to tell me they would do the SAME job, even if they did upsell it to the same price.
Brian R
Member
Ron, I understand what you are saying but just because you take what some consider to be too long to clean a carpet doesn't mean someone can't have the same end result as you in half the time.
You are generalizing for the sake of the thread, and I get that. We all do it.
Some carpet...most carpet just doesn't take THAT long to clean. If carpet is going to take longer than usual, they the customer should pay for it.
Because as we all know, time is money.
It's been my experience that most Techs that clean in half Ron Werner time earn a little more than half of what you are telling us you are charging.
And yes, I believe they are getting the carpet just as clean or close to it.
I think you do a great job for your customers and deserve the money you get...as far as I know from Mikey's...If you spend that much time and effort then so be it.
The perception of the customer also helps to make it worth it to them as well.
You are generalizing for the sake of the thread, and I get that. We all do it.
Some carpet...most carpet just doesn't take THAT long to clean. If carpet is going to take longer than usual, they the customer should pay for it.
Because as we all know, time is money.
It's been my experience that most Techs that clean in half Ron Werner time earn a little more than half of what you are telling us you are charging.
And yes, I believe they are getting the carpet just as clean or close to it.
I think you do a great job for your customers and deserve the money you get...as far as I know from Mikey's...If you spend that much time and effort then so be it.
The perception of the customer also helps to make it worth it to them as well.
royalkid
Supportive Member
I love cleaning berber...no grooming and the results (w/ rx-20) are amazing. Can't understand why people charge more for cleaning it or are affraid to TM it?? Oh yeah, their hack-subs...duh.
Quote" The perception of the customer also helps to make it worth it to them as well."
I believe this is often the main difference. The little things and the perception of the customer.
But it all comes down to little things in the end.
I don't care what machine you taketo the carpet, there will still be a lot of dirt left behind. The end result is the dirt comes off the top and it looks better.
Rick
I believe this is often the main difference. The little things and the perception of the customer.
But it all comes down to little things in the end.
I don't care what machine you taketo the carpet, there will still be a lot of dirt left behind. The end result is the dirt comes off the top and it looks better.
Rick
Ron Werner
Member
Well Brian, if I could clean it with all the steps and do it in half the time, I would.
In half the time, they would have to move faster in one or all steps, in which case, it would "look" as clean.
When it comes to berber, you start moving that fast, that's when it goes south.
Again, if its only up to the customer's "perception", why are we using tm's when the "perception" can be achieved with much less expensive methods?
Also, we, as the "professionals", should know what clean is, not leave it to the client.
If you remove the most soil as possible oddly enough it will look clean.
In half the time, they would have to move faster in one or all steps, in which case, it would "look" as clean.
When it comes to berber, you start moving that fast, that's when it goes south.
Again, if its only up to the customer's "perception", why are we using tm's when the "perception" can be achieved with much less expensive methods?
Also, we, as the "professionals", should know what clean is, not leave it to the client.
If you remove the most soil as possible oddly enough it will look clean.
Brian R
Member
Sometimes it's not the cleaning steps that you hurry up on, it's the in between steps that can cut your time in half.
This is proved by just having a helper to pull hoses etc.
I don't care if it's 300 ft away...it's never taken me an hour to set up. :shock:
Not too mention.....sorry about this Ron....You take too damn long to vacuum. Ivebeensold
Cut down on that step Ron, you will still have a clean carpet, a happy customer or 2 and a pocket with a little more money in it at the end of the day. somewhat amus
Not trying to bash you. I think you really know what you are doing. It's just a little overkill in my opinion.
And you will waste your life away going overboard on the things that don't need it.
I believe they call what you are doing...
"Majoring in the Minors"
This is proved by just having a helper to pull hoses etc.
I don't care if it's 300 ft away...it's never taken me an hour to set up. :shock:
Not too mention.....sorry about this Ron....You take too damn long to vacuum. Ivebeensold
Cut down on that step Ron, you will still have a clean carpet, a happy customer or 2 and a pocket with a little more money in it at the end of the day. somewhat amus
Not trying to bash you. I think you really know what you are doing. It's just a little overkill in my opinion.
And you will waste your life away going overboard on the things that don't need it.
I believe they call what you are doing...
"Majoring in the Minors"
Greg Cole
Member
3 areas and 4 chairs and 2 1/2 hours to clean with 2 people? HOW MANY SMOKE BREAKS DID YOU TAKE?
I am dumbfounded as to how it could possibly take that long with 1 person, let alone 2 people.
I am an old man comparably to most in the business right now. i am out of shape and haven't spent a full day on a truck since Clinton was president. AND I could clean those areas in 1/2 the time with the same results.
I laugh when i hear people say that my techs "ONLY clean the surface dirt that you can see"
Everyone only cleans the surface dirt that you can see. Sorry to burst your bubble but there is an easy way to determine if you cleaned ALL of the dirt out. Pull the carpet up and submerge it in a rug pit with a recirculating pump.
You will be amazed at how much dirt you TRULY left behind.
Sadly, all the banter about who cleans better is relative.
I am dumbfounded as to how it could possibly take that long with 1 person, let alone 2 people.
I am an old man comparably to most in the business right now. i am out of shape and haven't spent a full day on a truck since Clinton was president. AND I could clean those areas in 1/2 the time with the same results.
I laugh when i hear people say that my techs "ONLY clean the surface dirt that you can see"
Everyone only cleans the surface dirt that you can see. Sorry to burst your bubble but there is an easy way to determine if you cleaned ALL of the dirt out. Pull the carpet up and submerge it in a rug pit with a recirculating pump.
You will be amazed at how much dirt you TRULY left behind.
Sadly, all the banter about who cleans better is relative.
Brian R
Member
That would be a good expirement for a trashed repo house or something like that.
clean the hell out of it with a V....let Mikey do it if he still has one....and then submerge it like you said.
I feel a Mikey's Fest off campus event coming on.
How hard would it be to find the trashed repo in that area? lol
Don't worry about stains or TLG...just dirt.
Who's up for the challenge?
clean the hell out of it with a V....let Mikey do it if he still has one....and then submerge it like you said.
I feel a Mikey's Fest off campus event coming on.
How hard would it be to find the trashed repo in that area? lol
Don't worry about stains or TLG...just dirt.
Who's up for the challenge?
Desk Jockey
Member
I agree Ron cleans slow, but its because he is a perfectionist, and he does it by choice. Not a bad thing as long as he makes what he wants an hour and he averaged just under $142.00 an hour, that's pretty good money. 8)
Do I think you can visually see a difference between his cleaning and someone a little faster probably not. But his method is indeed cleaner and if that's what he sells to his customers, then they too know that they are getting more than they would with other cleaners.
It's not what we do or how we clean, but it works for Ron, so how can we challenge that?
Do I think you can visually see a difference between his cleaning and someone a little faster probably not. But his method is indeed cleaner and if that's what he sells to his customers, then they too know that they are getting more than they would with other cleaners.
It's not what we do or how we clean, but it works for Ron, so how can we challenge that?
Brian R
Member
To each his own....I get that.
Just telling my side of the story. I would never try to make Ron clean faster as I would not have any luck.
He would probably hit me in the head with a vacuum cup.
Just telling my side of the story. I would never try to make Ron clean faster as I would not have any luck.
He would probably hit me in the head with a vacuum cup.
Art Kelley
Supportive Member
gregcole said:
Dang. I hate to agree with Cole but I'm even older than him (albeit in much better shape) and working by myself that job would have taken me less time than Ron and a helper and cost 1/2 as much, and I am convinced that the level of clean wouild be the same,(if Ron was at the top of his game). Vacuuming, if done at all, would be quick, the prespraying would take 3 minutes tops, prescrubbing 5-10 minutes. The slow part of the job is the freshwater rinse using 30-40 gallons of water No one is going to provide a better cleaning than that, even with a two hour vacuuming.
Greg Cole
Member
Art Kelley said:
WOW! you agreed with me? 8) a first I believe!
Desk Jockey
Member
:mrgreen:
Ron Werner
Member
BULLgregcole said:
I've got pics to back up what I pull out of carpet. All you have is the "appearance" at the end of the job. Do they both LOOK the same ...Yes. Are they the "same"....NOT BY A LONG SHOT. I've vacuumed places that have just been vacuumed. I have pics from a 2 room job that was prevac'd 5 TIMES by the owner before we arrived, and I had to dump the canister TWICE!
If you think a portable is going to out clean a TM then that tech better be taking his time. Ain't no way a porty comes close to TM quality in the same time, with or without vacuuming.
With the Greenhorn it flushes a LOT more than just the surface, but again, you CANNOT RUSH THE WORK. Sure you can pull it fast and it will look cleaner, but pull it slower and you'll get it that much more cleaner! I've demo'd that infront of clients, WE saw the difference.
We are supposed to be professionals and during my job this morning while I was extracting a couple canisters of dry soil from the carpet I realized why these comments irk me so.
Its an insult to any cleaner that wants to do a better job by taking the time necessary. When I spend a couple hours cleaning a place, and someone comes along saying they can do the SAME JOB with the SAME RESULTS in HALF the time, that's a load of crap.
As I said before, the customer shouldn't dictate what is clean, YOU are the professional. There is no difference in the advertising but there is a hell of a lot of diff in the work done and though you may not see it, I do. You wouldn't know because you're still under the delusion that a TM will extract the soil from a carpet.
Just as clean... yeah, right.
Greg Cole
Member
Ron,
sorry to irk you- but what I said is true. Portable would take longer and even then would be less time. but w/ a truckmount my results would be equal or better than yours in 1/2 time. what you have in a canister means nothing. what comes out of the carpets after we submerge it in a rug pit does! IF any dirt comes out - you didn't clean it thoroughly.
sorry to irk you- but what I said is true. Portable would take longer and even then would be less time. but w/ a truckmount my results would be equal or better than yours in 1/2 time. what you have in a canister means nothing. what comes out of the carpets after we submerge it in a rug pit does! IF any dirt comes out - you didn't clean it thoroughly.
Ron Werner
Member
Are you shittin me Greg? What I have in the canister means "nothing"??!! Of course you're going to get soil if you bath it. BUT you'll get a hec of a lot less than if it is vacuumed well first.gregcole said:
Your results would LOOK the same for sure. But they sure wouldn't BE the same. What a slap in the face to say you'd get it the same.
I cleaned a carpet with my friend today, hadn't been cleaned in 35yrs.
OF course, removing all that soil was meaningless I guess. We were just wasting our time since we could have cleaned the carpet with all that soil STILL in the carpet and left it looking just as clean. OR we could have ripped it all out and thrown into a bath.
Why don't you just be honest and say you leave half the soil but get the carpet LOOKING just as good as the other guys and only charge half the price.
How are we ever going to improve this industry when the "professionals" say all you need to do is prespray and rinse or spin a cotton pad across it. Anyone tries to remove more, taking more time, and they are wasting their time...according to their peers.
Ron Werner
Member
I knew someone was going to spew something about it.
Of course a tm is going to get a portion of that and vacuuming isn't going to get it all. BUt the majority of that hair and dust will be stuck on the fibres as soon as you get it wet. You get a lot of junk on your TM filters esp if you're not using a glide, as its pulling up more fibre. I tested that theory, that a TM will pull all the soil, at MF in SanDiego. I dumped a lot of sand and carpet deodorizer into a carpet and worked it in, then let the Genesis go at half the area. Yes, it pulled up some of the sand, but it left significant amount of sand and most of the powder, which we saw coming into the vacuum after it was dry.
Video is on youtube.
And if you run the vacuum properly you don't need a pre-crb. And they ran a vacuum over that carpet before we arrived.
I've got some good pics from a room vacuumed 5 times before we came to clean. One room, 100sf at most, and still filled the canister. Have to get them off my phone. I once got more than a gallon of soil (sand) out of a square yard of carpet. You would have gone over it in 3 swipes and called it "clean".
And the odd time I find myself caving to the thought that I can clean a carpet without vacuuming first, just to help out a client with price. Oh sure, I got it looking clean, looks fantastic (I've a vid of that as well but its on my phone, having a challenge syncing it) But I KNOW I could have removed far more and since I was using a holed glide, there wasn't much in my filter. If you saw what I've seen come out of carpet (I've been vacuuming longer than you've been cleaning) you wouldn't be shooting me this BS about how great the TM is at removing dry soil.
And Silver rated? Hell, that rating is as bogus as the Rug Dr getting a GOld SOA. If they are going to test a vac it would be better if they knew how to run one. Almost all of the vacuums that "rated higher" I've out cleaned in people's homes. If I haven't out cleaned it I most likely haven't been in a home where a client had one.
r]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25jlXsZdsQr]
Not to mention the FACT that it just makes sense to remove as much dry before getting it wet. All I have to say to justify my method is simply explain it.
Maybe if you prevac'd a little more efficiently or used a silver rated vacuum your truck filter wouldn't be getting "slammed".
Connections is over, did we keep things livened up enough?? 8)
Of course a tm is going to get a portion of that and vacuuming isn't going to get it all. BUt the majority of that hair and dust will be stuck on the fibres as soon as you get it wet. You get a lot of junk on your TM filters esp if you're not using a glide, as its pulling up more fibre. I tested that theory, that a TM will pull all the soil, at MF in SanDiego. I dumped a lot of sand and carpet deodorizer into a carpet and worked it in, then let the Genesis go at half the area. Yes, it pulled up some of the sand, but it left significant amount of sand and most of the powder, which we saw coming into the vacuum after it was dry.
Video is on youtube.
And if you run the vacuum properly you don't need a pre-crb. And they ran a vacuum over that carpet before we arrived.
I've got some good pics from a room vacuumed 5 times before we came to clean. One room, 100sf at most, and still filled the canister. Have to get them off my phone. I once got more than a gallon of soil (sand) out of a square yard of carpet. You would have gone over it in 3 swipes and called it "clean".
And the odd time I find myself caving to the thought that I can clean a carpet without vacuuming first, just to help out a client with price. Oh sure, I got it looking clean, looks fantastic (I've a vid of that as well but its on my phone, having a challenge syncing it) But I KNOW I could have removed far more and since I was using a holed glide, there wasn't much in my filter. If you saw what I've seen come out of carpet (I've been vacuuming longer than you've been cleaning) you wouldn't be shooting me this BS about how great the TM is at removing dry soil.
And Silver rated? Hell, that rating is as bogus as the Rug Dr getting a GOld SOA. If they are going to test a vac it would be better if they knew how to run one. Almost all of the vacuums that "rated higher" I've out cleaned in people's homes. If I haven't out cleaned it I most likely haven't been in a home where a client had one.
r]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25jlXsZdsQr]
Not to mention the FACT that it just makes sense to remove as much dry before getting it wet. All I have to say to justify my method is simply explain it.
Maybe if you prevac'd a little more efficiently or used a silver rated vacuum your truck filter wouldn't be getting "slammed".
Connections is over, did we keep things livened up enough?? 8)
G
Gnu
Guest
yeah with the right amount of bleach who cares about yellowing lolLee Stockwell said:
Kidding.
I did however try cleaning sissel yesterday. small little area rug in the foyer. Seen for $65 at a local home store. It was trashed to begin with. So I asked If I could replace it with a new one. took the bad one home and tore the crap out of it. It came out nice and clean, no yellowing a little crinkling up used steam to relax. So I now have a used clean area rug for my dog to wipe his paws. And a very happy customer.
Brian R
Member
Hey Ron,
I just listed this on my website for Cleaning Process.
It's really just a way to let the customer know what to expect....in customers language...not BDCC Language.
What do you think?
• Vacuuming: We recommend thoroughly vacuuming your carpet at least 2 times a week. This is very important for keeping your carpet as clean as
possible between professional cleanings. It's much easier to remove soil when it's dry and vacuuming will remove about 70% of insoluble soil. We will vacuum when needed before the professional steam cleaning process.
You can see the whole list here
Priority Carpet and Tile Cleaning
Scroll to the bottom....it's for the people who will actually scroll anyway. lol
I just listed this on my website for Cleaning Process.
It's really just a way to let the customer know what to expect....in customers language...not BDCC Language.
What do you think?
• Vacuuming: We recommend thoroughly vacuuming your carpet at least 2 times a week. This is very important for keeping your carpet as clean as
possible between professional cleanings. It's much easier to remove soil when it's dry and vacuuming will remove about 70% of insoluble soil. We will vacuum when needed before the professional steam cleaning process.
You can see the whole list here
Priority Carpet and Tile Cleaning
Scroll to the bottom....it's for the people who will actually scroll anyway. lol
Ron Werner
Member
Change Insoluble to Dry, easier to understand. Looks good. Easy to read.
Customers can understand the need for vacuuming, it makes sense to them. Most of them have had a cleaner come in and first thing they do is start spraying water. When I come in and explain why I'm vacuuming, they always say, That makes sense.
SO is it only for "business reasons" why cleaners cut corners, ie for profit?
Customers can understand the need for vacuuming, it makes sense to them. Most of them have had a cleaner come in and first thing they do is start spraying water. When I come in and explain why I'm vacuuming, they always say, That makes sense.
SO is it only for "business reasons" why cleaners cut corners, ie for profit?
Brian R
Member
Ok, I'm changing it to dry soil as I post this.
Thanks
Ron Wrote
Everything is for profit in a business. If it isn't, then get out of it.
Cutting corners is in the knife of the beholder.
Thanks
Ron Wrote
Everything is for profit in a business. If it isn't, then get out of it.
Cutting corners is in the knife of the beholder.
Greg Cole
Member
getting some, getting, more, or getting most of.... Unless it's ALL it is relative!
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
gregcole said:
Toilet paper beats corn cobs...
Ron Werner
Member
well thats a good attitudegregcole said:
just let it build up and up until someone gets sick,
or they think its so disgusting that they replace it with hardsurface.
that's helping our image
Greg Cole
Member
Ron Werner said:
Image? I KNOW YOU DIDN'T GO THERE! thousandS of O&O's screaming "BEWARE THE OTHER GUY IS GONNA COME IN YOUR HOUSE AND RIP YOU OFF" That makes our industry's image look terrible!
Ron Werner
Member
It sure does.
SO what are you doing to help that image?
Are we raising the standard, removing as much of the soil "as possible", or do we clean it so its "good enough" and tell'em its "as clean as we can get it" (since it looks clean, hopefully, they THINK its clean)?
Are we letting the $ dictate how much time we spent cleaning, and if we aren't making enough profit we cut back on cleaning steps to make profit. That makes us no better than a suit.
I had a choice, I could drop my quality and make more profit, or raise my price and keep doing what I know was the better way to clean.
Can be part of the problem or part of the solution.
What need do we have of the SOA if we are actually "cleaning" the carpet.
SO what are you doing to help that image?
Are we raising the standard, removing as much of the soil "as possible", or do we clean it so its "good enough" and tell'em its "as clean as we can get it" (since it looks clean, hopefully, they THINK its clean)?
Are we letting the $ dictate how much time we spent cleaning, and if we aren't making enough profit we cut back on cleaning steps to make profit. That makes us no better than a suit.
I had a choice, I could drop my quality and make more profit, or raise my price and keep doing what I know was the better way to clean.
Can be part of the problem or part of the solution.
What need do we have of the SOA if we are actually "cleaning" the carpet.
Brian R
Member
Whenever I've cleaned a carpet and whenever I've looked aferward...I've always been able to spread the carpet fibers and look down to a perfectly clean backing.
How much more clean do you want it? Do you really think you will ever pull all that crap through from the pad and get ALL of it.
Not a chance.
Is there really ever that much underneath the carpet unless it's over 7 or 8 years old anyway?
Pet urine and contamination aside.
I'm pretty sure that if the carpet is clean, then the carpet is clean.
How much more clean do you want it? Do you really think you will ever pull all that crap through from the pad and get ALL of it.
Not a chance.
Is there really ever that much underneath the carpet unless it's over 7 or 8 years old anyway?
Pet urine and contamination aside.
I'm pretty sure that if the carpet is clean, then the carpet is clean.
Ron Werner
Member
Depending on where you're cleaning and who your custys are, sure, you can get it clean that way. BUt how many customers actually vacuum properly and keep a good house. I've been using that vacuum for 15yrs and I've shown you pics of what I get out. If I wasn't getting anything, I'd be cleaning just like everyone else; what would be the point in that extra work? But I have been getting bags or soil out of clean looking carpet and I'm trying to pass this along so that hopefully we can improve our cleaning techniques, get carpets cleaner and improve the industry. Seems no one wants to or cares since it will cut into their profit margin.
So many harp on that 1st video, but that happens more often than not where I am very surprised by what comes out. You cannot see what lies just on top of that primary backing. Everyone talks about sucking the soil from the pad. That's not going to happen. You want to remove the soil load from the primary up. Its not what's underneath but what's IN the carpet. You just cannot tell. I'm not able to get it all. Even Dusty has told me the only way is to remove it, badger it and bath it.
People think carpets are disgusting, they are full of contaminants etc and they are replacing them with hard surface.
SO are you saying that as long as the surface looks clean that's all we need to do?
Or that as long as the customer thinks its clean then that sets the standard?
HEC, you'd be shocked at what can come out of brand new clean looking carpet that has just been installed in a new house but there is still some work being done.
So many harp on that 1st video, but that happens more often than not where I am very surprised by what comes out. You cannot see what lies just on top of that primary backing. Everyone talks about sucking the soil from the pad. That's not going to happen. You want to remove the soil load from the primary up. Its not what's underneath but what's IN the carpet. You just cannot tell. I'm not able to get it all. Even Dusty has told me the only way is to remove it, badger it and bath it.
People think carpets are disgusting, they are full of contaminants etc and they are replacing them with hard surface.
SO are you saying that as long as the surface looks clean that's all we need to do?
Or that as long as the customer thinks its clean then that sets the standard?
You would be surprised what I have pulled out of 1-2yr old carpet.
HEC, you'd be shocked at what can come out of brand new clean looking carpet that has just been installed in a new house but there is still some work being done.
