Somebody asked Saiger for help

[Mikey P]

Mark asked me to post these photos and ask for suggestions


A carpet cleaner (who joined here last week, ironically) used a product call Pro 10K on this five year old Nylon. He rinsed it with Butler's acid rinse. He got a call later that day from the home owner complaining that the carpet was starting to turn yellow. He returned that night to rinse it some more with the same Butler product and this time it got worse.

There is no msds or any other info than this on the prespray
Product Description
Tired of presprays that just don't cut it? Then it's time for you to move up to Pro 10-K. It's been labeled as the best prespray on the market. See for yourself!





Today he tried some peroxide in a small area and last I heard from Mark was the yellow was going away..



Your thoughts?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Your thoughts?

Cheap Shit = Cheap Shit

Stick with the brands you know and the products you know work. Avoid the trap of something made in a bathtub that is supposed to be the next big thing.

 

[Zee]

Cheap Shit = Cheap Shit

Stick with the brands you know and the products you know work. Avoid the trap of something made in a bathtub that is supposed to be the next big thing.

Sometimes there are big things "developing" in bathtubs.


Donnn make me essplainit.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Donnn make me essplainit.

When I come to move in with you there in beautiful Saaan Diego, I'm using the shower.

 

[Shane Deubell]

He should have used a zipper...

 

[Shane Deubell]

This is why i buy butler and mostly from jd or interlink. Sometimes excellent supply.

But a cowboy's gonna do what a cowboys gonna do .

 

[Zee]

So, is pro10k a tmf product? It sounds like it from what I saw... quickly looking..."over there"

 

[Desk Jockey]

I Goggled it and couldn't get anything to come up.

 

[Desk Jockey]

But a cowboy's gonna do what a cowboys gonna do .

"All cowboys ain't dumb. Some of 'em got smarts real good"

 

[Zee]

I googled it and got some tmf links and they are talking about it showing before and afters. Also saw it mentioned that the guy bought from tmf.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Before we pick on the prespray, does anyone know if he sprayed every square inch of the carpet with the product?

It looks like a wand pattern, which could mean the rinse agent or something in the carpet that reacted to the rinse agent or even moisture might have caused it.

If instead the marks are the prespray pattern, then you could look at the prespray.

Did he boost the prespray with any other chemicals? Did he apply any protector?

Does Mark's friend know if the carpet was ever cleaned previously?

Bottom line:

As much as a "chemical/training guy" like me just loves to see it be a cleaning product failure, in most cases discolorations like this on a 5 year old nylon are from something that was already in the carpet or the cushion, or from a carpet protective treatment.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Before we pick on the prespray, does anyone know if he sprayed every square inch of the carpet with the product?

Well I standby my bathtub statement, despite you obviously pointing out its lack of validity.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Well I standby my bathtub statement, despite you obviously pointing out its lack of validity.

I don't mean to dispute you Richard.

Its one of those "horses-zebras" scenarios.

In my experience, the prespray is a zebra....

 

[Mikey P]

Yeah, I'm not saying the prespray is the issue here...

Certainly suspect though.

 

[Nate The Great]

What's the PH of the uncleaned area (under that hutch/end table) and what is it in the affected areas?

It would help to give some insight...

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't mean to dispute you Richard.

Your case does seem more plausible. I was quick to jump on cheap but only because many cleaners are attracted to cheap products.

 

[Todd Millar]

These are my pic's and I don't by cheap.
I use a Butler and have been Using this product with some great results. What took place here as far as I can tell is whoever cleaned this before I cleaned it used something really strong. It was a model home and the carpet is white as snow, so they probably were using something not intended for carpet cleaning.

I used peroxide , misting it on there and grooming it in with with carpet brush. With in a few minutes it was making a huge dif.
I also refunded this customer her money for the inconvenience of this whole nightmare.

I have been cleaning since 1997 and never seen anything like this. Anybody else experience any thing like this?

Bid thank you out to Mark Saiger for helping me out!!!!!!!!!

 

[Desk Jockey]

What took place here as far as I can tell is whoever cleaned this before I cleaned it used something really strong.

Could be but is there something that leads you to the last guy? Did it look funny prior to cleaning or post cleaning?

The peroxide corrected it completely?

What is the PH of the Prespray?

 

[Mikey P]

These are my pic's and I don't by cheap.
I use a Butler and have been Using this product with some great results. What took place here as far as I can tell is whoever cleaned this before I cleaned it used something really strong. It was a model home and the carpet is white as snow, so they probably were using something not intended for carpet cleaning.

I used peroxide , misting it on there and grooming it in with with carpet brush. With in a few minutes it was making a huge dif.
I also refunded this customer her money for the inconvenience of this whole nightmare.

I have been cleaning since 1997 and never seen anything like this. Anybody else experience any thing like this?

Bid thank you out to Mark Saiger for helping me out!!!!!!!!!

Did I get the story straight Todd?


Glad to hear you got out relatively unscathed.



Hopefully the next guy who cleans that carpet has good karma.

 

[Todd Millar]

PH is 9.5
What leads me to that conclusion is within 5 minutes of my pre-spray being put down the carpet started to change color. I rinsed very thoroughly and thought the problem was gone but as it dried it got worse.
I hope I never see another job like that one!
Shame of it is the house was very clean only about 6 spots in the whole house, pretty good for 5 years with no carpet cleaning.
She will probably never have me back, Not sure I would want to go back either.

 

[Todd Millar]

I also run an acidic rinse, but what ever was in the carpet the rinse couldn't pull it out.

 

[J Scott W]

This reminds me of BHT / alkaline yellow we used to see in the late 1980s and early to middle 1990s. I would not expect to see that on 5 year old carpet.

 

[Todd Millar]

I remember that stuff, nasty!

 

[ruff]

Every day, cleaning carpet is like walking into a minefield.
You never know what somebody did prior to your cleaning, but be sure to be blamed if something goes wrong on our shift.

No wonder we have bad backs.
It's psychosomatic

After 25 years of dealing with this kind of sh$t, having previously spoken perfect English, I've developed an accent.

 

[ruff]

I don't mean to dispute you Richard.
Its one of those "horses-zebras" scenarios.
In my experience, the prespray is a zebra....

That strong comment by me isn't based on any ivory tower status, but having spent 40 years talking to good cleaners who have had VERY bad things happen to them. I don't feel strongly because I have any ego in this, just a profound concern for cleaners who work too darn hard for too darn little to take risks.

Up in his Ivory Tower, hasn't he been snappy lately?

 

[Jimmy L]

Did the previous cleaner use laundry detergent? Optical brightners will show under a black light.

 

[Todd Millar]

If I had a black light I would test it. I would also like to test the ph in area I did not clean. Mostly just for curiosity so I know or a least have a much better idea of what went wrong.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I was thinks the previous cleaners residue might have soapy and you lost good vacuum and it browned. But then you said it did it as soon as you presprayed. I'm back to where I started. I wouldn't use that prespray.

 

[Todd Millar]

I am going to give Mark Saigers secret sauce a try and go from there. All I know is I do not want to go thru this again. Once is more than plenty!!

 

[dgardner]

Good choice! Mark's sauce never turns the carpet yellow - always blue!