Speed and maxing out a "big truck"

[tracywalker]

I was reading the thread about wanting a used v/at. What about those units will make an O/O clean much faster? Now I realize the speed difference between a slide in and PTO. I went from a Boxxer to a white magic 1200 and the wm is faster to set up and clean with. Now what about a "big truck" will make it faster than a butler or wm? I know that I now use a TI wand and can clean almost as fast as I move the wand back and forth. I can not imagine doing anything to speed up my system by much. Now as a dual wand machine I realize the potiential.

This also has me wondering in this economy if there are any big truckers doing whole house specials and dual wanding them all? looks like you could run a business plan similar to Big Mikes and advertise whole house specials. You could knock out about any standard size house in under an hour dual wanding. Would gross way over the magic 100 per hour. Would have to spend a lot on advertising though.

 

[KevinL]

I'm with you Tracy, I also have a wm 1200 and can't imagine why these guys think a big truck can help them clean faster. If I had a box truck I would have to climb in to get stuff I can easily reach in my extended van. I can dual wand when needed but that is rare. I've got plenty of heat, up to 240 and plenty of suck so where are they saving all this time?125 gallons of fresh water and waste so I only have to fill up every 2 or 3 jobs. Apo when needed.

 

[Jim Martin]

I could sit here and type all day and debate with half this board on how it can help you ..but past experience with this subject has always told me that I am just wasting my time.....

Both of you.(or anyone else for that matter) are more then welcome to get out of the cold and come down here and spend a day or so with me and see for yourself what it can help you do....That is the best way to answer all your questions.............

you don't have to work and I will even buy lunch.......all you have to do is hide and watch........

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Yum!!! 101 things to cook with bananas....

 

[Mikey P]

Lee's Costa Rica jokes are going to waste seeing how Yaps moved back to the land of the magical underoos.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I have never used a v but I can only imagine that it would drastically reduce the number of dry strokes needed, if any all. That would save a tremendous amount of time. You could probably increase your wand speed as well.

 

[orangeforce123]

In 2003 I bought a steam action 4 wand machine with 2000 feet of vac and high pressure 300 gal waste tank, 200 gal fresh water tank. I paid 85,000 this machine produced 1200 cfm and 20 hg. I sold it with 1300 hr on it for 17000. I love my two wm pro 1200's. Last year I sold my prochem 405. I also have a prochem blazer and steamway legacy 2100. I am sold on White Magic.

 

[Jim Martin]

I'm Yappy - and I approved this message.

I'll buy the lunch. Bring yer jammies.

I would offer to put you in the guest room ..but he snores and hogs all the blanket

 

[Jim Martin]

Just let me know when and I will be ready...........

 

[hogjowl]

No you won't ...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Yeah I heard...lol

"Teaching Law", huh? At the School of Hard Knocks ??

 

[Erik]

Until you've cleaned with a 400 pound blower and dual 18 flow wands powered from a 300 lb. ft torque industrial diesel engine - while maintaining 245F at the machine - it would be impossible to understand. This is why Jim keeps saying what he's saying. It's like trying to explain to a carpenter who has used a handsaw all his life what an electric skill-saw would be like. He's just gotta try it to understand. This is why Mikey keeps asking Bill Bruders if he's actually ever pulled the wand of an optimized Vortex.


With those results, both my trucks must be broke. Maybe you can do a ride-a-long with me Shawn. With a 12 flow, in the middle of Summer- I'm lucky to break 210. The trucks have been like that since they were new. I've changed the Dynalene every 500 hundred hours, cleaned the soot out of the lower heat exchangers. My 777 runs hotter in the summer that my 6008. I'm going to put a diesel burner on one of them for the winter- I can't break over 180 degrees in either truck. The only time you reach those temps is if you have an inch of water left on a hot summer day. A 36 flow- maintaining 240 degrees, my ass. If the new Vortex trucks are that nice, please help me sell both of mine and I will buy one!!

 

[Erik]

Try to make arrangements to have one at Mikey's Fest in Feb. I got to see this. For anyone else reading this, I have two for sale- 2001 & 2005.

 

[Erik]

Shawn,

What does the blower size have to do with heat? You might be a little better at convincing Bruders to get one there than me. I would imagine a lot of board members would love to see one.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Vaporware??

 

[Erik]

Vaporware??

?

 

[Erik]

I'm going down to Ohio Sunday to meet Larry. He has a diesel burner, I may buy. Hopefully, I can turn the 777 into a flame throwing monster. The burner should allow me to dual wand with the 777- vacuum is great & tanks are huge. The old dog is my favorite truck minus the heat.

 

[Erik]

What hg would you recommend? We are running the 777 at 15 & the 6008 at 16. Something happened to jack my inches of lift to 18 and the blower over heated and I lost the race in the drive bearing. Is this normal? The glide doesn't help to put a load on the truck, but I need it in my old age. The more the load, the hotter the truck will get. Any suggestions?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

"Vaporware" is an old computer marketing term.

"Selling from an empty wagon" is a similar, albeit older one.


I speak for many who would LOVE to see a current Vortex in Nashville. I've admired Billy Hick's AT up close when my wife and I happened to meet his family at Bridgepoint there.

If Vortex can't come up with a unit in two months...

 

[Erik]

"Vaporware" is an old computer marketing term.

"Selling from an empty wagon" is a similar, albeit older one.


I speak for many who would LOVE to see a current Vortex in Nashville. I've admired Billy Hick's AT up close when my wife and I happened to meet his family at Bridgepoint there.

If Vortex can't come up with a unit in two months...

GO BIG OR GO HOME.

 

[Ryan]

Who thinks yappys sig is too big?! I vote we make him crop it!! Lol and I would love too see a new 8000Q! When is mikeys fest again?? Lol

 

[Erik]

Mikeys Fest is February 19 & 20.

Shawn, let's start the poll- Who wants to see the 8000Q at Mikey Fest?

 

[West]

I use White Magic Pro1200HV's . Just sold my Vortex about 2 month ago and am replacing it with another White Magic Pro1200HV. The Vortex was a decent machine, no real complaints. As far as speed up production, it didn't do anything for me that my White Magic's couldn't do. I'll never own another one, vans work better for me.

 

[steve frasier]

Eric, you should talk to Walt about the lil giant heater he had on his vortex

I have a 2007 10th anniversity model, I have an additional heat exchanger that most models don't have. It will maintain 240 pulling 2 high flow wands, GreenHorn and Ti wand. Set at 17" and running 1500 rpm in mild winter temps. Summer time is a different story

be careful what you wish for

If enough people said I was interested in buying one the story would probably be different, want to see and want to buy are 2 different things

 

[tracywalker]

I was reading the thread about wanting a used v/at. What about those units will make an O/O clean much faster? Now I realize the speed difference between a slide in and PTO. I went from a Boxxer to a white magic 1200 and the wm is faster to set up and clean with. Now what about a "big truck" will make it faster than a butler or wm? I know that I now use a TI wand and can clean almost as fast as I move the wand back and forth. I can not imagine doing anything to speed up my system by much. Now as a dual wand machine I realize the potiential.

This also has me wondering in this economy if there are any big truckers doing whole house specials and dual wanding them all? looks like you could run a business plan similar to Big Mikes and advertise whole house specials. You could knock out about any standard size house in under an hour dual wanding. Would gross way over the magic 100 per hour. Would have to spend a lot on advertising though.

I would say that the primary reason would be that a "stock" Vortex has significantly higher performance than any pimped out White Magic or Butler... even if the WM or Butler were fine tuned and optimized to its "sweet spot" by the Greenman himself.

Until you've cleaned with a 400 pound blower and dual 18 flow wands powered from a 300 lb. ft torque industrial diesel engine - while maintaining 245F at the machine - it would be impossible to understand. This is why Jim keeps saying what he's saying. It's like trying to explain to a carpenter who has used a handsaw all his life what an electric skill-saw would be like. He's just gotta try it to understand. This is why Mikey keeps asking Bill Bruders if he's actually ever pulled the wand of an optimized Vortex.

This is also why it's very rare to hear of a Vortex owner who wishes they had bought something else instead. This is also why some people look so silly when they start attacking the "supposed" advantages of the V.

The Vortex owners roll their eyes ... again ... and then they make posts just like Jimmy did above.

"Ya just gotta try one".

If you're not filling the room with steam - or burning your ankles on the hose - or if you can't hear the purr of a BIG tough diesel engine outside... you're doing it wrong.

hehehe :shock:

Filling the room with steam or burning my ankles is not going to speed up production. :wink: Now I SAID I do not understand how exactly a big truck will clean MUCH faster for an O/O over a van PTO setup. I understand there is NOTHING better than a VAT for dual wanding. I GET THAT. I would LOVE to have a big truck for marketing purposes so I GET THAT TOO. But I keep hearing how an O/O can add more jobs a day with one or be home by 3 etc etc? I in no way can clean by myself with 2 wands with 18 flow each. So that argument was pointless. So again I ask the question. What about a V would make it FASTER for an O/O? I realize I probrably clean like a hack, but damn I can FLY with my wm1200. I physically can not push my titanium wand any faster than what I do. I half ass dry stroke and still get 2-4 hours dry time. I am not doubting the power etc, and realize it would clean faster than a spitfire, but don't see it being any faster a set up for a O/O than a WM PTO with on board water and electric hose reel. Just trying to get serious answers on how it will speed up my day.

Jim, If I lived close to AZ I would take you up to ride with you for a day.

I vote YES to seeing a new V at mikeyfest.

 

[Jim Martin]

Until you've cleaned with a 400 pound blower and dual 18 flow wands powered from a 300 lb. ft torque industrial diesel engine - while maintaining 245F at the machine - it would be impossible to understand. This is why Jim keeps saying what he's saying. It's like trying to explain to a carpenter who has used a handsaw all his life what an electric skill-saw would be like. He's just gotta try it to understand. This is why Mikey keeps asking Bill Bruders if he's actually ever pulled the wand of an optimized Vortex.


With those results, both my trucks must be broke. Maybe you can do a ride-a-long with me Shawn. With a 12 flow, in the middle of Summer- I'm lucky to break 210. The trucks have been like that since they were new. I've changed the Dynalene every 500 hundred hours, cleaned the soot out of the lower heat exchangers. My 777 runs hotter in the summer that my 6008. I'm going to put a diesel burner on one of them for the winter- I can't break over 180 degrees in either truck. The only time you reach those temps is if you have an inch of water left on a hot summer day. A 36 flow- maintaining 240 degrees, my ass. If the new Vortex trucks are that nice, please help me sell both of mine and I will buy one!!

On the 6008 you say you can't break 180 degrees....even on a cold winter you should be at least starting out with a 100 degree fresh tank by the time you warm it up and get to your first job..so you are only gaining 80 degrees all day long ???..there has to be a problem somewhere....every now and then we get a cold winter....a few years ago I got caught off guard and my pump and everything froze......but no matter how cold it gets..even when it froze..I can get mine up to temp and it will hold all day long.....before you go throwing a diesel burner in it I would take the time and check a few things like maybe the diverter is not closing all the way and some exhaust is escaping out of the tail pipe and not giving you full advantage of the exhaust heat....when you turn the machine on and when the diverter throws the exhaust to the HX..does it stay that way the entire time or does it sit there and open and close..??.. This machine does not care how cold it is..during a cold winter once you get it up to temp the therm oil can hold its own if you can't get your water to heat then you are not heating the oil....sounds to me like you are only running on thermostat temps....Can't say that I am a huge fan of high flow.....water moves way to fast and has no time to heat up like it should...I tried it for about a month to give it a good work out and went right back to where I was before.....we all clean different but give me heat over flow any day......

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim, If I lived close to AZ I would take you up to ride with you for a day.

I am just about 60 degrees warmer and a few hour plane ride away.....

 

[West]

I owned both, and believe I can honestly answer your question. You are correct in it will not do anything to improve production on a daily basis, if you are comparing a WM 1200 to a Vortex. Both produce great results. pm if you want o know more about my personal experience with both, don't want to get the Vortex crowd started.

 

[Jim Martin]

I owned both, and believe I can honestly answer your question. You are correct in it will not do anything to improve production on a daily basis, if you are comparing a WM 1200 to a Vortex. Both produce great results. pm if you want o know more about my personal experience with both, don't want to get the Vortex crowd started.

No need to be afraid of the us..just lay it on the line....____________________

 

[Greenie]

This machine does not care how cold it is..during a cold winter once you get it up to temp the therm oil can hold its own if you can't get your water to heat then you are not heating the oil....sounds to me like you are only running on thermostat temps....Can't say that I am a huge fan of high flow.....water moves way to fast and has no time to heat up like it should...I tried it for about a month to give it a good work out and went right back to where I was before.....we all clean different but give me heat over flow any day......

First off. Tracy, I don't think YOU would see any improvement in your cleaning times, take it for what it is, I just don't think YOU are gonna improve your speed over your current 400cfm 17"hg machine, with the size of your tank, Elec. reel glided Ti wand, single operator etc...

I do have a question for Jim from his quote above, and am Surprised others haven't already asked:

I just figured I must have missed something from a previous thread or something, so I will ask:

If the Mighty V doesn't care how cold it is......why did you swap back to your regular flow on single wand, from your high flow experiment?
Surely a 175hp engine can sustain plenty of BTUs for one high flow wand?

I think Erik's experience isn't too far off from the norm.

In fact I've always believed the Achilles heel of the V was it's dependancy on the pre-heated freshy for the FIRST job of the day.
I've had V owners install a LP heater just to overcome this cold water= wait to heat up phenom....sure they didn't need it on the second half of the day, but that is not the point.

And as for Moving water Too fast...Heat excahngers are more efficinet if you can keep the water moving through them, if it stops and site...it loses efficiency.
We're not talking about an 18hp engine here.

Especially with a 100 deg- 160 deg Preheated fresh water supply.

So...what am I missing?