Lance Golden
Member
Cameron, are you more of a fan of 5x? say vs. diamond renew?
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Stone polishing
- Thread starter Ron Lippold
- Start date
Lance Golden
Member
Ron,
How did the sealing go? Any problems?
Did you get a chance to test, before and after?
How did the sealing go? Any problems?
Did you get a chance to test, before and after?
Ron Lippold
RIP
Lance there where areas that the sealer would not penetrate, that's where the haze came from, the monkey was used dry, just to remove the haze.
I'm a powder guy from here on out. Way better results.
I'm a powder guy from here on out. Way better results.
ted mcfadden
Supportive Member
The grout is dirty all over, as is the stone. If the customer is happy that is what counts. There is always room for improvement. If I may suggest: using a grout brush before vacuuming the Diamond renew will clean the grout pretty well. Your customers will appreciate it. Looks like a lot of work for one man. Nice job.
Cameron DeMille
Member
Yes. Like Ted mentioned, if you use a grout brush before vacuuming diamond renew, or any polishing compound, it should clean the the grout fairly well, but 5x will clean as you polish. It basically etches the grout clean. So when clients ask "what about cleaning" I say I am able to incorporate the cleaning process into the polishing process to save you money. Sold.
Here is before an after. The floor was diamond refinished, then polished with 5x. No grout scrubbing, no cleaner, just 5x with a white pad. Notice the grout looks new. The couple dark lines were just still wet, they dried out like the others.
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Ron Lippold
RIP
So Cameron what do you recommend on black grout???????
Ron Lippold
RIP
Cameron I can assure you that after stripping I cleaned with Judson's o2 there was no change in the tile or grout, the floor was almost perfect, you have to remember our floors have lippage. We don't have any stone fags out here.
Lance Golden
Member
I can honestly say, I have seen up close after other companies have "restored" the stone with a rotary, powder, grout brush, and a slurry vac.
They can't hold a candle to what can be done with a truckmount and the right presray. Then polish, and not rely on the mild acid to do all the cleaning.
I think Ron's job is not being fairly judged... remember, he had thick layers of "topical" sealer to strip, first. And getting "all" of it completely
removed from the grout, is next to impossible. If it isn't NO acid in the world will touch it.
They can't hold a candle to what can be done with a truckmount and the right presray. Then polish, and not rely on the mild acid to do all the cleaning.
I think Ron's job is not being fairly judged... remember, he had thick layers of "topical" sealer to strip, first. And getting "all" of it completely
removed from the grout, is next to impossible. If it isn't NO acid in the world will touch it.
Cameron DeMille
Member
I apologize if it seemed like I was criticizing his job. The job turned out great. I was just offering an alternative for the future.
You can comparable or equal results to a turbo with a rotary and brush. You're right though, the crap doesn't always come out of the grout
You can comparable or equal results to a turbo with a rotary and brush. You're right though, the crap doesn't always come out of the grout
Cameron DeMille
Member
There Is lippage everywhere. I deal with it every day and there are stone fags here. I wasnt trying to give you a hard time. I think the job turned out well.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Looks great Ron thanks for the pics
Ron Lippold
RIP
Lippage is one thing and I will remove it when I can find someone to pay for it, sealer and finish are another, I have no problem getting the finish off. The grout lines are black. If you think I did not check that in the estimate your crazy. I was born at night but not 3 nights ago.
Charlie Lyman
Supportive Member
For the illiterate like myself and those that are afraid to ask.....
What is 5X and Diamond renew?
Lance Golden
Member
Mikey P
Administrator
Yes. Like Ted mentioned, if you use a grout brush before vacuuming diamond renew, or any polishing compound, it should clean the the grout fairly well, but 5x will clean as you polish. It basically etches the grout clean. So when clients ask "what about cleaning" I say I am able to incorporate the cleaning process into the polishing process to save you money. Sold.
Here is before an after. The floor was diamond refinished, then polished with 5x. No grout scrubbing, no cleaner, just 5x with a white pad. Notice the grout looks new. The couple dark lines were just still wet, they dried out like the others.
Impressive!!!
Kevin B
Member
Ron, can you detail the products and process? I've done polishing, but would like to try a powder system
ted mcfadden
Supportive Member
Here is a document that provides a general use of 5X and Diamond Renew: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1o_bBYZFsA7dUVIM0JteUdBWVU/edit?usp=sharing
ted mcfadden
Supportive Member
This should help with using 5X and Diamond Renew https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1o_bBYZFsA7dUVIM0JteUdBWVU/edit?usp=sharing
Cameron DeMille
Member
They are both polishing compounds for marble, travertine and limestone in powder form. you put it on the stone, add water and polish with a rotary machine and soft pad to bring the stone to a shine.
5x is the standard, since it was pretty much the first compound of it's kind. It contains 3 main components; Oxalic acid, shellac and a high grit aluminum oxide or other similar abrasive.
Diamond Renew is a little different, it has many more components. It's what a lot of guys get started with because it is easy to use and not considered to have a very high acid content and is user friendly.
There are dozens, or even hundreds of different versions of 5x, every company pretty much makes their own. 5x is a very fine powder and can become airborne when handled roughly, causing sneezing etc. Diamond Renew is a little moist, like brown sugar and doesn't have that problem.
These are probably the most famous two powders, followed by MB-12 (super potent technical powder) and MB-22 (idiot proof user friendly powder) and KP92 (wet gritty paste, user friendly) . All different but achieve the same results. After experimenting with several, it basically comes down to personal preference.
Charlie Lyman
Supportive Member
Thanks Cameron. By soft pad, are you talking about a certain grit, or a specific color?
ted mcfadden
Supportive Member
With Diamond Renew you will get the most consistent success and speed when using a white pad. I like a white pad with 5X too. I know Cameron is a little partial to hogs hair. Use hogs hair with MB12.
Cameron DeMille
Member
we're talking about 17" nylon pads, like buffing pads.
Rob Fairfield
Supportive Member
What sealer are you using? You shouldn't have hazing issues.
alazo1
Member
Great job Ron.
Don't throw away the cheetah pads just yet though.
I find that you can seldom get away with just a polish. If it's a travertine and the customer wants a bit more shine then a polish after a clean alone would more then likely be ok.
However, if it's a marble floor and it is more then just slightly dull, a polish alone will more then likely orange peel the floor. Meaning the clarity would be lost or distorted. A polish alone will only go so far. For this, an abrasive to hone should be used first. Also, if there is etching, I find that just polishing does not remove most of them. If cheetahs are used for the honing, I would try #2 and #3, then go to powder polish. Even an 800 grit monkey followed by polishing would be better then just a polish in those cases.
Rob, it sounds like the haze was from the powder.
Polishing marble and travertine floors
Don't throw away the cheetah pads just yet though.
I find that you can seldom get away with just a polish. If it's a travertine and the customer wants a bit more shine then a polish after a clean alone would more then likely be ok.
However, if it's a marble floor and it is more then just slightly dull, a polish alone will more then likely orange peel the floor. Meaning the clarity would be lost or distorted. A polish alone will only go so far. For this, an abrasive to hone should be used first. Also, if there is etching, I find that just polishing does not remove most of them. If cheetahs are used for the honing, I would try #2 and #3, then go to powder polish. Even an 800 grit monkey followed by polishing would be better then just a polish in those cases.
Rob, it sounds like the haze was from the powder.
Polishing marble and travertine floors
