The Great Debate: Urine Removal Processes

Jim Pemberton

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Mike and I started a discussion about urine decontamination under the topic "Saiger Made Me Do It" in the Bird Room.

I'd like to restart it here, and get feedback from everyone, about how each of you approach urine odor treatment. There appears to be two schools of thought: "Flood It" and "Pad It"

I'd like everyone to share their experiences with whichever method you use, or your own variation.

Please don't attack each other personally, (I know .....I'm probably screaming into the windstorm on this one), because once it gets personal, the facts get buried by emotion.

Unlike the "HWE vs VLM" debate, pet odor treatment has been evolving since the 70s, and some changes have occured that aren't readily obvious. I'm going to withhold my own opinion and experience, and just try to guide the conversation and get to the heart of the matter.

OK everyone, let's see if we can do this and still play nice.
 
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Dolly Llama

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There appears to be two schools of thought: "Flood It" and "Pad It"


they're both wrong.
if it needs "flooded", it's lost and someone else can pretend they "fixed" it "titty pink"

if it can be padded with no rinse/extraction (as in vac, not towel absorption) to aid removing contaminates, it's not a urine correction job

spray some 10vol on it if you makes you feel better


..L.T.A.
 

Meter Maid

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Most people just want the carpet to look good and not stink.

We are probably more OCD about it than customers.

For me, sodium chlorite (so-called CLO2) is the answer. I’ve found VLM works better for me because the chem stays active in the carpet longer as opposed to rinsing it all out.

When rinsing, I can do the same thing, but I have to let the chem dwell much longer, which takes time. That also gives the chem more opportunity to get the puddles in the padding wet, which is a whole other problem.

That said, I don’t do bad urine jobs and odor is rarely a concern.
 
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BIG WOOD

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For the fact of the matter, as the weirdo southerners would say, you can skin a cat more ways than one. Where that stupid statement came from, I don't know.

Meaning, all you idiots above are doing a good job at satisfying your customers.

My way from the topic of the thread


Try water first while the carpet is dry. The goal is to keep all moisture on top side of the backing, not to get the pad wet.

If it's an empty slum rental and the cheap landlord is refusing to replace the carpet...then out comes the flooding and water claw and maybe pad replacement with a hefty invoice. But 9 out of 10 urine jobs, the dry rinse
 

SamIam

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For the fact of the matter, as the weirdo southerners would say, you can skin a cat more ways than one. Where that stupid statement came from, I don't know.

Meaning, all you idiots above are doing a good job at satisfying your customers.

My way from the topic of the thread


Try water first while the carpet is dry. The goal is to keep all moisture on top side of the backing, not to get the pad wet.

If it's an empty slum rental and the cheap landlord is refusing to replace the carpet...then out comes the flooding and water claw and maybe pad replacement with a hefty invoice. But 9 out of 10 urine jobs, the dry rinse
What if there's pet pad?
 

Cleanworks

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Pet urine treatments are the new Scotchgard in our industry. Guys going around with uv lights and charging for every stain. Problem is, when you finally rip out that carpet and pad, you see how bad it really was and how ineffective the urine treatments may have been. Flooding, water clawing, pouring treatments on may help to a certain degree but there is no guarantee that you are going to get everything. If the animals are still in the house, it's going to go right back to the way it was. Often, I just add deodorizer to my prespray and clean ordinarily. It puts a different odor into the mind of the customer and when the urine odor eventually comes back, they blame it on the dog or cat. I only do a full deodorizer treatment on empties, when there is a change of tenancy or something similar. Using very strong smelling deodorizers can have an opposite effect, where the customer complains about the smell of your chemistry.
 

SamIam

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Black light flood extract or sub surface tool.

Stick your nose in it and smell.

Winners get rid of smells and stains.

When Mrs pfiff sticks her nose in the carpet and she will.

That's when you'll be judged.


Oops did I do that?

Oh well call Sam.

PXL_20231105_154019450.jpg
 

Dolly Llama

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"Removal"


No idea what "correction" is defined as?

I guess I've heard of people smacking their dog on the nose to
correct
them when they do a no no


I'm not sure if you're being a dik for comic relief or want to argue semantics :headscratch:

In context, a corrective action would be "removal" of urine they called you to fix

..L.T.A.
 
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Obviously the fiber, situation and severity of the pet contamination play a roll in how we approach it, but in general.

First thing we do is identify fiber, determine if it was a one time accident or frequent offender. It it's a frequent offender we let the home owner know that it's likely to continue happening.

We typically don't charge per spot anymore because it's so likely that there's spots we missed, spots that aren't showing up, dander, and oils, so we offer a pet treatment package and we charge per the square feet of all the carpet, because we are not only treating urine, but also trying to remove dander and oils.

We will spray all the carpeted areas with an acid based pet prespray and sometimes add in Odorcide. This not only helps neutralize urine salts, but also neutralizes all the other BS they put in their carpets.

We then CRB to agitate and remove as much hair and dander as possible. By the time this is completed typically 20-30 min has passed for dwell.

Depending on the situation and soil we will come back with another pretreatment of something with Oxy and Citrus. CRB if needed.

We then extract and will usually use a neutral to acidic rinse if my chemical injection is working.

Then to top it all off, we will apply a peroxide based treatment (sometimes encap, sometimes just peroxide) and run a bonnet across it. Everything is usually dry by the time I leave.

*If those steps aren't in the customers budget, like for a rental move out, and they could careless about the results, and just want a reciept saying they steam cleaned their carpets, but I don't want it to smell like complete piss, because the next guy will think it's the carpet cleaners fault. I don't do any of those steps. I just spray with MB Urine Lock in my hydroforce and let it dwell as long as possible, CRB and extract. *
**It doesn't always work, but it makes me feel better. **
 
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Luky

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Pet urine treatments are the new Scotchgard in our industry. Guys going around with uv lights and charging for every stain. Problem is, when you finally rip out that carpet and pad, you see how bad it really was and how ineffective the urine treatments may have been. Flooding, water clawing, pouring treatments on may help to a certain degree but there is no guarantee that you are going to get everything. If the animals are still in the house, it's going to go right back to the way it was. Often, I just add deodorizer to my prespray and clean ordinarily. It puts a different odor into the mind of the customer and when the urine odor eventually comes back, they blame it on the dog or cat. I only do a full deodorizer treatment on empties, when there is a change of tenancy or something similar. Using very strong smelling deodorizers can have an opposite effect, where the customer complains about the smell of your chemistry.
I have to agree with @Cleanworks on his assessment. I'm blessed /cursed that 8 out of the ten customers have odor-related problems in their house, not necessarily pet malodor, but also human as well. I titled it #1, #2, and #3; as you may expect, we're talking urine, feces, and vomit. Odor modifiers and oxidizers might work on areas that are lightly contaminated ( carpeting, upholstery, and even innate surfaces can carry the odor well (anti-slip tiles& grout). In most cases, I advise owners to replace carpeting, but because pets cause accidents in most rooms, owners are reluctant to take expensive ways to resolve the issue. So far, I have used Cat Attack, Skunk-out, and Un-duz-it, but my favorite product is by far USR with Multiphase by Clean Master, which is a potent powder. I don't use it to flood the affected area; I keep the foam on the carpet's surface and let it oxidize for a while instead of allowing too much solution through the backing to the underlayment, where the problem lies. I used large water claws and different spot lifters to mitigate the urine contamination; there wasn't enough lift and rinse to remove all the urine. Surface treatment of large areas, rinsing, and quick drying work for me. I make smaller batches when I mix up to 6 ounces of USR with 16-24 fl. oz of scorching water, which gives me a gallon of thick foam, almost like a paste texture, that I disperse on affected areas. You can hear /see the effervescent effect immediately. I can make 5-gallon batches, but it's harder to control foam buildup. I'm making batches in the room using a solution line with an open end of QD. If needed, I use bonnets on Oreck to help the carpet dry while running a movers.
If the source of the odor is eliminated ( dog or cat died), owners usually opt for carpet removal. Until then, we provide partial relief for their long-lasting problem.
 

icleancarpetz

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Gently soak with enzyme enough to get to the pad
set Up while enzymes are digesting urine
extract with water claw while pouring water in the area.
clean carpets while spraying enzyme on the spot.
pouring a good rinsing agent of about 4 ph helps The extract.

Honestly, any carpet with mega urine is almost hopeless.
Small spots here there can be controlled.
If the pet has a habit of urinating on carpets and owner is not willing to get rid of the animal, the problem will always exist.

Ive been to homes that smell like pet urine while I’m standing outside ringing the doorbell and the door closed. Homeowners do not smell the stench. When i walk in, i wonder how in the world people live like this and not know their home stink.

I like pets, I had a doggie For 9 years. Their is no way I would let a pet toilet on the floors or sofa. He either will be trained to potty outside or he just has to go. Forget that noise. No way.
 

BIG WOOD

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I'm having trouble believing that enzymes actually "digest" anything more than just covering up the odor from my previous experiences with a few products.

Does any of our soap salesmen suppliers have a video of some sort showing the microscopic action of the enzyme actually doing what the bottle says it does

Because it's easy to say this is a temporary fix as long as you have your pet, which gives them an excuse as to why the odor might come back
 

Meter Maid

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I vacuum like crazy
Pretreat with Bio-8 mixed with Saigercide
Then I Rotovac into the room and wand out
In all seriousness, mind telling us the kind of rate you get for an average sized room with that process?

That’s probably about as good as it gets without replacing carpet.
 

Jimmy L

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Like I keep saying, You can do this and you can do that but eventually you will FAIL to correct your customer's problem. The sink will become too full. The customer is in denial...............and they will move on to another cleaner who will do the same damn things.
 
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Papa John

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Try water first while the carpet is dry. The goal is to keep all moisture on top side of the backing, not to get the pad wet.

If it's an empty slum rental and the cheap landlord is refusing to replace the carpet...then out comes the flooding and water claw and maybe pad replacement with a hefty invoice. But 9 out of 10 urine jobs, the dry rinse
Yep-- If one uses water first, it will take less expensive chemicals to remove the remaining urine.

On area rugs, my 2nd tool of choice is a garden hose and massive amounts of water. (my first tool is a vacuum)
Then it gets fully submerged in a wash pit with DiClor (about 2 oz per 50-100 gallons water)

In-homes I'll use 40vol, dwell time 1-10 minutes, rinse out.

This is what I do-- because it's what I have always done--
I've never tried VLM to remove urine. This means that my perspective is limited. I well-rounded perspective would have experienced Both sides of ANY subject.
 
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Mikey P

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Like I keep saying, You can do this and you can do that but eventually you will FAIL to correct your customer's problem. The sink will become too full. The customer is in denial...............and they will move on to another cleaner who will do the same damn things.
The last customer I had who would call two or three times a year to have me clean up the most disgusting situation imanageable on their carpet and tile, suggested that I give them a better price due to the frequency in which she called, and in my best 1.0ism, I spurt it out that I was considering raising my price probably with an eye roll to boot and of course I never heard from her again, praise the Lord
 
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