The Great SOA Debate w/ Harv and John Downy.

The Great Oz

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The SoA program had a valid goal in the beginning. The main complaints of commercial carpet owners were about cleaning, and much of the cleaning was done in-house using terrible chemicals from the Jan-San giants like SC Johnson. The SoA testing forced many of those products off of the market or they had to be reformulated. Carpet cleaning specialists were not affected, since cleaning specialists won't use things that don't work and then blame the carpet... or do they?

Equipment testing to drop the walk behinds and spin-bonnets to their proper place seemed OK too.

Now, this is all in regard to commercial cleaning, and where the program frays at the edges in when the CRI takes WFCA COMMERCIAL surveys and pretends that RESIDENTIAL customers have the same concerns. The WFCA surveys said that commercial customers complained most about problems keeping their carpets looking good. The why included poor color choices, poor face fiber choices and mostly lowest bid cleaning choices. The WFCA also surveyed residential customers, and found their concerns were about poor quality product and poor installation, those two issues accounting for 85% of residential consumer complaints. Carpet cleaning issues didn't even rate a mention.

The reason given for implementation of the program is bogus, so everything that comes after, whether well intentioned or not, becomes open to question. When politics entered the picture and everyone that pays the fee gets product certified, it's easy to be disgusted and stop looking for the good in a tainted program.


PS: Lisa, The move to requiring Certified Firms is because the IICRC plans on becoming a trade association and you need member firms, not member cleaners, to make up your membership base.
 

timnelson

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Great post, Bryan. How sure are you that CRI is using info from commercial customers? Several months ago, I called CRI and requested a copy of the "survey that started it all." I have heard nothing from them since then.

Maybe someone here who is a member of CRI could ask them for a copy of that survey and the results. Hey, if they want to constantly point to the survey as the reason for the program, they should be willing to share it.
 

truckmount girl

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That does seem like a reasonable request. I would be more than willing to pay for postage, copying and administrative fees in order to receive one.

Take care,
Lisa
 

The Great Oz

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World Floor Covering Association (WFCA) surveys were mentioned in a number of seminars about the CRI SoA program. The WFCA surveys that mentioned cleaning related problems were the ones concerned with commercial carpet. The WFCA surveys in regard to residential carpet didn't mention cleaning as a concern. Unless there is a WFCA survey that was commissioned by the CRI and wasn't sent to WFCA members, I assume some "cross pollination" of survey results.

The results of the published surveys, or at least a synopsis of them, can be found at the member website: wfca-pro.org Look under research.

The CRI/carpet mills have a legitimate quarrel with many providers of "cleaning" chemicals and equipment, not to mention franchise operations selling their USP against more thorough cleaning. This can confuse consumers who may then blame the carpet instead of the guy that loaded the carpet with powder, foam or silicone, but at least at this point it isn't really the problem with homeowners choosing floorcoverings other than carpet.
 

John Downey

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Both Lisa's 11/2 post (comparing the SOA to ASE certification) and Bryan's 11/5 post (regarding the source of commercial and residential carpet complaints) were excellent.

Lisa's post did an excellent job of illustrating by analogy why many professional carpet cleaners object to the SOA. While I may quarrel with whether some of the parallels drawn are truly analogous, all in all she makes a lot of very persuasive points.

Bryan's post described the motivation for and implementation of the SOA program in terms that are consistent with my understanding and experience with the CRI and carpet mills.

In particular the commercial market has serious cleaning problems due in part to ineffective (or even counter-effective) cleaning chemicals, equipment and techniques. The primary motivation to initiate the SOA program was to address these often glaring deficiencies.

As Bryan noted and I have previously stated, cleaning issues are not the primary affliction causing carpet to lose residential market share. Bryan also correctly noted that some residential cleaning systems have caused problems in the past, probably most prominently the old Chem-Dry system of bonnet cleaning cut-pile carpet. (I know that Shaw in particular had problems with that.)

I suspect the CRI decided to include both residential and commercial in the SOA because they thought the effective cleaning systems used in the residential market (i.e., mostly truck-mounted HWE) would pull the less-effective systems in the direction of what is demonstrated to work best. Similarly, the mills' decision to require the use of Certified Firms (which, by the way, is not a part of the SOA) as a warranty condition was motivated by the belief that the IICRC was the organization most responsible for promoting higher levels of professionalism in the industry; so by aligning with it they would promote the companies that are embracing higher levels of professionalism (i.e., the good guys). I think they were somewhat tone-deaf to the controversy that decision would generate.

Which is why, I think, there is such a disconnect between the two sides. I really think many on the mill side of the issue are dumbfounded at the negative response on the part of people/companies the mills intended the program to help.

I suspect that in hindsight the mills wish they had stayed focused on the commercial side, and perhaps that is what will ultimately happen.

With this post I'm going to "retire" from this issue. Hopefully my words were of benefit to some. And to anyone I offended by my sometimes passionate defense of the decidedly less popular side of the issue (Tony, you pegged it right: 80-20), please forgive me; that was not my intent.

John Downey
 

timnelson

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Anybody seen a copy of the letter mentioned below?



CRI Teams Up With WFCA
Presidents from both the Carpet and Rug Institute (CRI) and World Floor Covering Association (WFCA) joined together to pen a letter explaining CRI's Seal of Approval Program. Werner Braun and Chris Davis co-authored the letter that was sent out to the WFCA membership to help explain how the program works, what it means to the retailers, and how those individual carpet companies that have tied warranties to the use of SOA products effects retailers.
CRI has also teamed up with the WFCA on another initiative regarding carpet recycling. Recently several WFCA Affiliate Associations inquired concerning available speakers on the topic of "Green," and have been referred to CARE. Bob Peoples has spoken to their memberships at a couple of different venues.
Contact James Beach at 706.428-2116.
 

truckmount girl

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Thank you for your time and excellent dialog on this issue John. I doubt anyone has been offended.

It will be very interesting to see how this issue plays itself out in the next year.

The fact that the mills and CRI were taken by surprise by the negativity speaks volumes for the fact that those who attempt to represent our corner of this industry (cleaners and manufacturers) are out of touch. This needs to be remedied and true representation implemented.

Take care,
Lisa
 

Jim Pemberton

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Thank you John

Your well thought out replies better defined the issues at hand, and you went above and beyond the call of duty in working so hard here for the past several days.

I think "the powers that be" might have been better served had they worked more closely with you, and had you as their PR man.

Thank you for the deep respect you showed for this group by participating for so long beyond any obligation on your part.
 

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