The Porcelain Tile phenomenon (updated 7-26-2021) - Mike Pailliotet & Mark Saiger

This thread has been sticked forever.

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
Okay I think I finally found some tiles to test some products on these were all soaked in a high pH powder overnight and then water wrench then acid rents then more water rinsed and all this remains..

Two different liquids did not cause any issues on these tiles and really didn't even need rinsing when they dried..PXL_20210529_012415616.jpgPXL_20210529_012423479.jpgPXL_20210529_012434573.jpgPXL_20210529_012443761.jpgPXL_20210529_012459141.jpgPXL_20210529_012512995.jpg
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
What Mark and I are realizing is the more applications of a powdered high ph cleaner we put on SOME OF these "new" porcelains, the more damage occurs, at various levels.


Much like LVP, we're thinking the wear layers that exist over the photograph vary in durability. Between what ever damage the home or business owner is doing and then us with our Super Dooper Grout Master Blasters, these modern age faux porcelains just can't take it.

Here is some examples of damage that if it were even across the whole tile and floor, no one would ever notice..


1622380455549.png

1622380472601.png




Testing continues, with correction and prevention steps coming as well.
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
The black tile shows the damage the best in photos.

PXL_20210530_191329493.jpg


This pic shows damage from two different high pH powders


The more I mess with them, the easier it gets to damage the top coat.
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
Looking on the bright side of this ugly reality, most grouted floors installed in the last 3 years very likely have any one of the new high performance grouts installed between those pesky tiles.

Polyblend Prism
Mapei Ultra Color
Tec Power Grout
Hydroment Vivid... etc

all of which clean up very easily and don't require very high pH cleaners.
 

Cleanworks

Moderator
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
22,707
Location
New Westminster,BC
Name
Ron Marriott
Looking on the bright side of this ugly reality, most grouted floors installed in the last 3 years very likely have any one of the new high performance grouts installed between those pesky tiles.

Polyblend Prism
Mapei Ultra Color
Tec Power Grout
Hydroment Vivid... etc

all of which clean up very easily and don't require very high pH cleaners.
so, any recommendations on a lower pH product that still works?
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
so, any recommendations on a lower pH product that still works?
Nothing even remotely official or thoroughly tested beyond Mark and i's test samples but he's finding his 10 below isn't causing any issues I found that Prochem Axiom carpet and upholstery cleaner didn't cause any issues nor did Prochem professional tile and grout cleaner but it's of a higher pH and certainly more risky.

If you believe it to be a 3-year or younger floor then I would play it safe with a neutral pH cleaner especially considering the high performance grout factor
 

Cleanworks

Moderator
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
22,707
Location
New Westminster,BC
Name
Ron Marriott
Nothing even remotely official or thoroughly tested beyond Mark and i's test samples but he's finding his 10 below isn't causing any issues I found that Prochem Axiom carpet and upholstery cleaner didn't cause any issues nor did Prochem professional tile and grout cleaner but it's of a higher pH and certainly more risky.

If you believe it to be a 3-year or younger floor then I would play it safe with a neutral pH cleaner especially considering the high performance grout factor
Looking at the Procyon tile & grout cleaner, comparing the sds sheet to Procyon Extreme which I use as my regular carpet prespray, it looks exactly the same. Maybe I will try it on some t&g. Under 11 pH.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikey P and hogjowl

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
I had one last week that cleaned up super over 99% of the floor, but the 1% that didn’t stood out like a sore thumb. I ended up having to use oven cleaner on those spots.
Do you normally carry around oven cleaner or did you borrow some from the cupboard?
 

steve_64

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
12,792
I had one last week that cleaned up super over 99% of the floor, but the 1% that didn’t stood out like a sore thumb. I ended up having to use oven cleaner on those spots.
One I did had adhesive still on the tiles from installation.
I didn't get it all off because I was afraid to do more damage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hogjowl
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Messages
39
Location
Atlanta
Name
Chandler
The Porcelain Tile phenomenon (updated 5-22-2021) - Mike Pailliotet & Mark Saiger

What we know:



Porcelain tiles in all shapes, sizes and finishes are being factory treated with problematic coatings during the manufacturing process.

Tiles dating back to 2018 are of concern.

The coatings can easily scratch.

The coatings can become randomly splotchy from cleaning agents ranging from 9 to 14 pH.

Sometimes the splotchiness can be removed with a mild acidic cleaner (pH 4-5) or a neutral pH floor cleaner along with buffing with a microfiber towel or bonnet and a 175 floor machine

The splotchiness can also be permanent.

The splotchiness usually occurs in areas that were pretreated by the cleaner and allowed to dry before extracting.

It is our belief that the floor owner can damaged the coatings with normal house hold cleaning products.

The more the floor is cleaned, the easier it becomes to damage the top wear layer.

This is a global problem.


What we believe:

These coatings are most likely slip resistant treatments.

These coatings could be protective to prevent damage during shipping.

Neutral cleaning agents do not create any issues.

The splotchiness could be something the homeowner or maintenance staff is creating, and we (Professional cleaning service providers) are only revealing it as we rinse the floors.

As of May 22, 2021 we don’t have a fix or a cure but testing of a two-part system out of Italy for Porcelain restoration will hopefully find a solution to fix both scratches and the splotchiness.



What we can do:

Professional cleaning services need to document all existing damage during the inspection process and have the customer sign and acknowledge.

Test for scratching.

Use the brush ring on your Spinner tool or hard surface wand

Be certain of the floor’s age prior to estimating or cleaning.

Risks involved to be stated in writing and signed and acknowledged by the customer.

Know how to positively identify Porcelain from Ceramic.
Awesome info Mike!
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
98,820
Location
The High Chapperal
So I took three (intentionally) pH damaged tile to The Clean Center in Phoenix where the owner, Arnoldo Del Valle, a well respected "stone guy" and Bonastre USA rep and I spent some time attempting to repair the damage.

Here is what we found...

The Italian porcelain restoration cream I had great and easy success with on other tiles is not fool proof. Over working it can over polish some Porcelain and as we suspected, can remove some of the protective factory coating


Honing and polishing powders and discs for stone do not fix the issue and can in fact all too easily remove all of the protective layer.

On one highly polished tile we were able to expose the grinding effect you see in this video @2:30
I'm waiting on one more all in one crèam to test that will fix and restore some level of protective coating and in the mean time I still have some testing to perform on the tiles I applied the 2nd component of the Italian duo to see if there is any actual protective benefit.

Saiger, Stu, Bryan, Arnoldo and I all agree that at this point, that if a typical carpet and tile cleaner cant fix these high pH with "just" a acid rinse and a micro fiber buffing, most will have to hire a well versed Stone Restoration Specialist to improve the look.
Unfortunately, we're all also convinced that the restored Porcelain will be in an even weaker, more delicate state from that point on if these coating restorer products don't prove to work.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom