The Porcelain Tile phenomenon (updated 7-26-2021) - Mike Pailliotet & Mark Saiger
- Thread starter Mikey P
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Mikey P
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steve_64
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That's what I said.
Mikey P
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Okay I think I finally found some tiles to test some products on these were all soaked in a high pH powder overnight and then water wrench then acid rents then more water rinsed and all this remains..
Two different liquids did not cause any issues on these tiles and really didn't even need rinsing when they dried..
Two different liquids did not cause any issues on these tiles and really didn't even need rinsing when they dried..
Mikey P
Administrator
What Mark and I are realizing is the more applications of a powdered high ph cleaner we put on SOME OF these "new" porcelains, the more damage occurs, at various levels.
Much like LVP, we're thinking the wear layers that exist over the photograph vary in durability. Between what ever damage the home or business owner is doing and then us with our Super Dooper ************ Blasters, these modern age faux porcelains just can't take it.
Here is some examples of damage that if it were even across the whole tile and floor, no one would ever notice..
Testing continues, with correction and prevention steps coming as well.
Much like LVP, we're thinking the wear layers that exist over the photograph vary in durability. Between what ever damage the home or business owner is doing and then us with our Super Dooper ************ Blasters, these modern age faux porcelains just can't take it.
Here is some examples of damage that if it were even across the whole tile and floor, no one would ever notice..
Testing continues, with correction and prevention steps coming as well.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Well hurry up Tony
Mikey P
Administrator
what a huge disappointment he turned out to be.
Mikey P
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The black tile shows the damage the best in photos.
This pic shows damage from two different high pH powders
The more I mess with them, the easier it gets to damage the top coat.
This pic shows damage from two different high pH powders
The more I mess with them, the easier it gets to damage the top coat.
Cleanworks
Moderator
Scary
Mikey P
Administrator
Looking on the bright side of this ugly reality, most grouted floors installed in the last 3 years very likely have any one of the new high performance grouts installed between those pesky tiles.
Polyblend Prism
Mapei Ultra Color
Tec Power Grout
Hydroment Vivid... etc
all of which clean up very easily and don't require very high pH cleaners.
Polyblend Prism
Mapei Ultra Color
Tec Power Grout
Hydroment Vivid... etc
all of which clean up very easily and don't require very high pH cleaners.
Mikey P
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Cleanworks
Moderator
so, any recommendations on a lower pH product that still works?
Mikey P
Administrator
Nothing even remotely official or thoroughly tested beyond Mark and i's test samples but he's finding his 10 below isn't causing any issues I found that Prochem Axiom carpet and upholstery cleaner didn't cause any issues nor did Prochem professional tile and grout cleaner but it's of a higher pH and certainly more risky.
If you believe it to be a 3-year or younger floor then I would play it safe with a neutral pH cleaner especially considering the high performance grout factor
hogjowl
Idiot™
I had one last week that cleaned up super over 99% of the floor, but the 1% that didn’t stood out like a sore thumb. I ended up having to use oven cleaner on those spots.
Cleanworks
Moderator
Looking at the Procyon tile & grout cleaner, comparing the sds sheet to Procyon Extreme which I use as my regular carpet prespray, it looks exactly the same. Maybe I will try it on some t&g. Under 11 pH.
Mikey P
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Do you normally carry around oven cleaner or did you borrow some from the cupboard?
Mikey P
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I can tell from my testing that the darkening of the tile most likely happens all the time with neither the cleaner or the floor owner aware of it..
Another thing we can do in precaution is to evenly wet-out the floors and work in 100 to 200 ft at a time and do everything we can to keep areas from drying
Another thing we can do in precaution is to evenly wet-out the floors and work in 100 to 200 ft at a time and do everything we can to keep areas from drying
hogjowl
Idiot™
Yes
Mikey P
Administrator
FreAk.
steve_64
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One I did had adhesive still on the tiles from installation.
I didn't get it all off because I was afraid to do more damage.
Mikey P
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roro
Member
Have a look at this link Dan, and then ask your LOCAL supplier for a compliance statement for their product https://jacobsens.co.nz/knowledgebase/codes-standards-information/slip-standard/
Chandler Thompson
Member
Awesome info Mike!
Mikey P
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hogjowl
Idiot™
I was talking with jimmy today and he said that two step process is from Home Depot
Mikey P
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ACE Hardware actually.
Mikey P
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So I took three (intentionally) pH damaged tile to The Clean Center in Phoenix where the owner, Arnoldo Del Valle, a well respected "stone guy" and Bonastre USA rep and I spent some time attempting to repair the damage.
Here is what we found...
The Italian porcelain restoration cream I had great and easy success with on other tiles is not fool proof. Over working it can over polish some Porcelain and as we suspected, can remove some of the protective factory coating
Honing and polishing powders and discs for stone do not fix the issue and can in fact all too easily remove all of the protective layer.
On one highly polished tile we were able to expose the grinding effect you see in this video @2:30
I'm waiting on one more all in one crèam to test that will fix and restore some level of protective coating and in the mean time I still have some testing to perform on the tiles I applied the 2nd component of the Italian duo to see if there is any actual protective benefit.
Saiger, Stu, Bryan, Arnoldo and I all agree that at this point, that if a typical carpet and tile cleaner cant fix these high pH with "just" a acid rinse and a micro fiber buffing, most will have to hire a well versed Stone Restoration Specialist to improve the look.
Unfortunately, we're all also convinced that the restored Porcelain will be in an even weaker, more delicate state from that point on if these coating restorer products don't prove to work.
Here is what we found...
The Italian porcelain restoration cream I had great and easy success with on other tiles is not fool proof. Over working it can over polish some Porcelain and as we suspected, can remove some of the protective factory coating
Honing and polishing powders and discs for stone do not fix the issue and can in fact all too easily remove all of the protective layer.
On one highly polished tile we were able to expose the grinding effect you see in this video @2:30
I'm waiting on one more all in one crèam to test that will fix and restore some level of protective coating and in the mean time I still have some testing to perform on the tiles I applied the 2nd component of the Italian duo to see if there is any actual protective benefit.
Saiger, Stu, Bryan, Arnoldo and I all agree that at this point, that if a typical carpet and tile cleaner cant fix these high pH with "just" a acid rinse and a micro fiber buffing, most will have to hire a well versed Stone Restoration Specialist to improve the look.
Unfortunately, we're all also convinced that the restored Porcelain will be in an even weaker, more delicate state from that point on if these coating restorer products don't prove to work.
Last edited:
Mikey P
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hogjowl
Idiot™
Change that can to can’t
Mikey P
Administrator
Here are some articles Fred found on various issues found with new High Polish Porcelain..
www.slique.com.au
Cloudy Tiles (Optical Hazing) - Slique
www.slique.com.au
