Warranty violations

[Mikey P]

How well insured are you?

Will your professional liability and or umbrella coverage pay for what could be considered "willful neglect" in the eyes of the carpet, resilient flooring or synthetic countertop manufacturers?

The IICRC standards wont help you in court as they have to be written in conjecture with the care guidelines of the manufacturer.

Are you aware that if you use any tool that goes round and round on a flat plan (175/OP/Cimex) on a Shaw carpet, you've violated the warranty?

How about using a truckmount set to over 100 degrees on most every type of vinyl floor?

Or applying a topical "finish" (wax, lacquer or coating) on just about any plank product, synthetic countertop or ceramic tile?

You may want to talk to your insurance provider before you continue with the "But I've always done it that way" cleaning method...

And yes, in many cases you can "safely" and effectively chose to ignore recommendations for various reasons such as the product not being covered under warranty due to age or another violation, or your expert control of your process, but you better get the customer's consent in writing.

Let's also discuss how well can you accurately identify the surface you're cleaning?
In my position I see countless examples of "professional" cleaners and sadly, instructors and influencers performing cleaning and sealing services on surfaces that they can't identify properly.



If only there was a better way to train our industry.........

 

[Cleanworks]

How well insured are you?

Will your professional liability and or umbrella coverage pay for what could be considered "willful neglect" in the eyes of the carpet, resilient flooring or synthetic countertop manufacturers?

The IICRC standards wont help you in court as they have to be written in conjecture with the care guidelines of the manufacturer.

Are you aware that if you use any tool that goes round and round on a flat plan (175/OP/Cimex) on a Shaw carpet, you've violated the warranty?

How about using a truckmount set to over 100 degrees on most every type of vinyl floor?

Or applying a topical "finish" (wax, lacquer or coating) on just about any plank product, synthetic countertop or ceramic tile?

You may want to talk to your insurance provider before you continue with the "But I've always done it that way" cleaning method...

And yes, in many cases you can "safely" and effectively chose to ignore recommendations for various reasons such as the product not being covered under warranty due to age or another violation, or your expert control of your process, but you better get the customer's consent in writing.

Let's also discuss how well can you accurately identify the surface you're cleaning?
In my position I see countless examples of "professional" cleaners and sadly, instructors and influencers performing cleaning and sealing services on surfaces that they can't identify properly.



If only there was a better way to train our industry.........

Take an iicrc class and add on some hands on training. Make it a 4 day course.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

How well insured are you?

Will your professional liability and or umbrella coverage pay for what could be considered "willful neglect" in the eyes of the carpet, resilient flooring or synthetic countertop manufacturers?

The IICRC standards wont help you in court as they have to be written in conjecture with the care guidelines of the manufacturer.

Are you aware that if you use any tool that goes round and round on a flat plan (175/OP/Cimex) on a Shaw carpet, you've violated the warranty?

How about using a truckmount set to over 100 degrees on most every type of vinyl floor?

Or applying a topical "finish" (wax, lacquer or coating) on just about any plank product, synthetic countertop or ceramic tile?

You may want to talk to your insurance provider before you continue with the "But I've always done it that way" cleaning method...

And yes, in many cases you can "safely" and effectively chose to ignore recommendations for various reasons such as the product not being covered under warranty due to age or another violation, or your expert control of your process, but you better get the customer's consent in writing.

Let's also discuss how well can you accurately identify the surface you're cleaning?
In my position I see countless examples of "professional" cleaners and sadly, instructors and influencers performing cleaning and sealing services on surfaces that they can't identify properly.



If only there was a better way to train our industry.........

Back in the late 80s, there was a great deal of fear mongering going on about cleaners violating carpet warranties if they used the wrong pH or wrong polarity surfactant on a stain resistant carpet.

As a result of that, many more cleaners got certified than might otherwise have (a good thing), and more attention was paid to cleaning chemistry (also a good thing, for the most part).

Still, what also sadly occured was the initial introduction of safe products that didn't work, then then the introduction of products that really weren't safe for stain resistant carpet, but fell under the "less than 10" number and cleaned well enough.

Cleaners were damaging stain resistance right and left, but were sort of ok due to the IICRC compromise and some "realpolitik" that went on.

That created a sense of cynicism after awhile, and I think it is safe to say that few if any cleaners care about the pH of their prespray any longer, other than the desire for it to be as strong as possible.

HOWEVER

The issues with hard surface treatments are much different than cleaning carpet.

1. Cost: If a hard floor is ruined, the correction or replacement will be more costly than a few rooms of carpet.

2. Visual Issues: No one could tell if a cleaner erased stain resistance with their products, but if you apply the wrong product to a hard surface, the appearance issues can show up fast, and the fix will cost be far more than carpet, as would replacement.

3. Job size: A commercial job or large home covered in hard surfaces can represent a great deal more area than a few rooms of carpet, and the expense of repair/replacement will be proportionately larger.

I bring this up because some of us (myself included) have become justifiably cynical about what we went through 30 or more years ago.

These issues today are far more serious, and deserve more in depth attention.

 

[Mikey P]

Cost: If a hard floor is ruined, the correction or replacement will be more costly than a few rooms of carpet.

Assumng there was no dramtic texture damage or unfixale browning /wicking, who would ever know that a carpet had been striped of it's stain resit or wear warranty?

No one, including the carpet cleaners.

These issues today are far more serious, and deserve more in depth attention.

Here is the perfect example of which I speak

Nice MATTE finish porcealin tile, which could use it's grout cleaned.

Carpet cleaner guy sells them on his new revolutionary wonder coating that never needs to be stripped and reapplied, but rather scufffed and another coat layed.





The first coat is highly likley to do one of the following:

scratch
separate/lift
gouge
piss off the person who spec'd or chose the matte finish
piss off the person ('s) who can see that the coating is highly orange peeled
efflorese
look like crap.


AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, RUIN THE SURROUNDING BASEBOARDS OR WALLS WHEN IT COMES TIME TO ATTEMPT TO STRIP IT, IN THE EVENTUALITY OF ANY OF THE ABOVE COMING TRUE.

and let's get down to the heart of why this plastic coating is going to make cleaning so much easier for the floor owner, the carpet cleaner instructed the owner to switch to a flat mop system.

add in the cost of furniture and appliance moving, relocating the owner for days, wall damage and many cleaners will go under, or worse.

 

[FB19087]

What did this "carpet cleaner guy" do to upset you...

 

[hogjowl]

It could be anything

 

[Kenny Hayes]

Didn’t address him as a Saint or did

 

[Mikey P]

What did this "carpet cleaner guy" do to upset you...

He pretends to be a massage therapist.

 

[Nomad74]

He pretends to be a massage therapist.

You're just mad because you kind of liked it.

 

[Mikey P]

You're just mad because you kind of liked it.

Liked what?


now-a-days my wife is looking at me as she did when we were 19 years old, can you say the same?

 

[Nomad74]

Liked what?


now-a-days my wife is looking at me as she did when we were 19 years old, can you say the same?

I don't know. I'm just following Marty.

And yes, I can say the same. But I'm happy for you.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

....a great thread, with the potential for meaningful exchanges....once again devolves to this



Yeah I know, I’m no fun

 

[FB19087]

We can’t all run around fondling Mike’s balls and telling him how great he is Jim…

 

[Mikey P]

We can’t all run around fondling Mike’s balls and telling him how great he is Jim…

You can, you just choose not to


***** is doing more than his share though..

 

[BIG WOOD]

....a great thread, with the potential for meaningful exchanges....once again devolves to this



Yeah I know, I’m no fun

Let's bring it to real life.

A bid on a huge state facility opens up to maintain all the carpet there. The literal numbers calculated to over $600k to provide these services.

There is a requirement section very similar to mike's on his military housing, only they give an allowance on a LMC machine, which is a CRB. And they did mention in the bid that it was Shaw carpeting.

So if an account that big has a problem with the carpet cleaner buffing the heck out of the carpet, wouldn't that tell you to maybe hold off investing in one of those machines?

And yes, that's a real job I'm referring to that I would like to branch off one day soon to hire a crew to handle.

 

[Cleanworks]

Liked what?


now-a-days my wife is looking at me as she did when we were 19 years old, can you say the same?

Like when you were a weird, awkward, teenager?

 

[jessi]

Great thread.

 

[they live]

Assumng there was no dramtic texture damage or unfixale browning /wicking, who would ever know that a carpet had been striped of it's stain resit or wear warranty?

No one, including the carpet cleaners.




Here is the perfect example of which I speak

Nice MATTE finish porcealin tile, which could use it's grout cleaned.

View attachment 126280



Carpet cleaner guy sells them on his new revolutionary wonder coating that never needs to be stripped and reapplied, but rather scufffed and another coat layed.





The first coat is highly likley to do one of the following:

scratch
separate/lift
gouge
piss off the person who spec'd or chose the matte finish
piss off the person ('s) who can see that the coating is highly orange peeled
efflorese
look like crap.


AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, RUIN THE SURROUNDING BASEBOARDS OR WALLS WHEN IT COMES TIME TO ATTEMPT TO STRIP IT, IN THE EVENTUALITY OF ANY OF THE ABOVE COMING TRUE.

and let's get down to the heart of why this plastic coating is going to make cleaning so much easier for the floor owner, the carpet cleaner instructed the owner to switch to a flat mop system.

add in the cost of furniture and appliance moving, relocating the owner for days, wall damage and many cleaners will go under, or worse.

We have an account we call the glass house. We have had it for 3 or 4 years now since it was built. I have no idea what the finish is on the floors but it comes off easily.
I don't understand why they used such delicate products in a home on a beach that gets used for entertaining regularly.
The tile and wood both have a delicate finish that comes off with a mop and product.
Manufacturers and designers are to blame imo. And these are not cheap products. They make our job harder than it has to be.