Watch out

packfancjh

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,551
Location
Sparks NV
Name
Chris Hagen
After not hearing any response from a certain vendor of ours we decided to air our frustrations and to warn people about what kind of company is residing in our industry. I previously made a thread about a vendor selling a pro 1200 direct drive mount to a non distributor of their products who in turn sold the mount to a customer in my territory. This had upset me in the worst way and left me wondering why would my vendor deliberately sell a mount to my competitor for a customer I was already working with on a deal? Why wouldn't they help their distributor in that area who has been loyal to them rather than someone who doesn't even sell their products? Why would they LIE to us about not accepting the sale and then do it anyways only to threaten us when confronted by us about it? Good questions and ones I would like an answer to but they won't respond. Pretty unprofessional if you ask me. If they would screw over their own distributors like that I couldn't imagine what they would do to the end user oh wait yes I could. After speaking with a few others within the industry it sounds like this isn't the first occurance of unprofessionalism by this company either. Does this sound like a proper way to do business?
 

dealtimeman

Everyday is Saturday.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10,878
Location
Fort Worth , Texas
Name
Michael
Like I stated in the other thread, I have heard this happen three time in just six months. Bad business and it will show in their numbers.
 

packfancjh

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,551
Location
Sparks NV
Name
Chris Hagen
He's been shopping with me for a few years and came to me looking for a few prices about a week before he got the other quote. He couldn't resist the rock bottom price which is why he went there. We had a good relationship.
 
F

FB7777

Guest
The way my local distributor talks, he actually loses money on TM sales and installation :shock:

Sounds like Sapphire did you a favor :roll:
 
S

sam miller

Guest
I dont want to guess so I'll give an example.

I have a local guy who worked as a tm repair/installer and left to start his own business.

He ony distributes cleanco and can get other machines through a bigger disty competitor of where he use to work.

Still competitive pricing arent really what he does. The place he used to work has about 10 floor units and they distribute all the major brands.

I'm guessing a place that moves volume compared to the order as we go vendor will always get the better rate and be able to undercut the little guy.

Its the Walmart of business.

Hopefully thats not what happened to You. Good luck in the future,
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
3,797
packfancjh said:
He's been shopping with me for a few years and came to me looking for a few prices about a week before he got the other quote. He couldn't resist the rock bottom price which is why he went there. We had a good relationship.

The manufacturer made the same regardless who sold it. It is pretty crappy that they did not go through you, but we are talking about Interlink and I don't blame the guy for wanting to find a better deal. He got the machine he wanted from someone that was willing to make less profit. The prices you guys want for new tm's is ridiculous anyways.
 

Desk Jockey

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
64,833
Location
A planet far far away
Name
Rico Suave
I don't understand how the customer bought it from a non SS dealer. Did he just ask him if he could get one? Is the distributor that sold the unit a Blueline distributor is that why SS allowed them to sell it?

That guy didn't factor in support did he? He now has to go out of area for service. The savings aren't going to be as big as he thought they would be after he factors in the trips.



Fred that dude is pulling you leg and more. Even a small unit he has to give him a grand or more, a big unit several grand in his pocket.

Now if he is saying over time it doesn't work out to much, following warranty and support over the years, then I can see what he's talking about.

Warranty labor is generally on the distributor so it can get whittled away easily. Even support to a newbee or first time TM owner, floor plan payments, shipping lots of things will nibble away at that margin.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
3,797
packfancjh said:
Just so you know Daniel the other store was an Interlink store as well.

I agree with you as it was pretty crappy but they did go through an authorized distributor. You can't blame the guy for trying to save some money. It's no different than a customer shopping different cleaners. We know what we need to charge to make a profit and still be reasonable. The carpet cleaner knows what the bottom price they can charge is and they also know when they are making more profit than normal. Sometimes you have to bend.

My only problem with Interlink is they are distributors for several tm manufacturers.

My supplier is a prochem ONLY distributor. They buy and sell all makes but only new prochem machines.

I can understand y'all being upset but it's just business. It's not personal or anything just business.

Business comes down to who can provide the best service or product for the best price.

I say this because it is up to the business to find ways to be more profitable and productive. No one wants to pay someone to play around with their carpet for five hours when someone else can do just a good job in half the time for half the price.
 

Bill Bruders

Supportive Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
268
Location
Burlington, WA
Name
Bill Bruders
There are several details of this transaction that have not been made public and won't be because they surround very sensitive business matters which I hope people will respect. As a general comment on this subject however I doubt that any cleaner in this group would like one of their sales representatives going out on a public board complaining about a sale that another one of their sales reps got. What I can tell everyone is that the price we sell the product for (in this case a Pro1200, which just a couple weeks ago Chris said we hardly sold any of BTW) would be exactly the same to either distributor so no favoritism at all on our part. Unfortunately that can't be said for the cleaner who has 2 other Pro 1200's and wants to purchase his new unit from the distributor he has been doing business with for years. Folks we live in a free market society, competition is part of what makes us great. How would any of you like it if you pulled into a McDonalds and they asked for your zip code and they told you I’m, sorry you can’t purchase your food from this McDonalds’ because you live in a franchise area for another McDonalds’?
What we have is a distributor that wants the manufacturer to force a customer to purchase from them after they couldn’t win the sale. Very sad that the choice was made to try to get good people on this board involved in this issue in an effort to strong arm a manufacturer into doing something that in a free market economy is quite frankly at a minimum unethical and potentially illegal. While I’m certain some folks will want to have further discussion on this issue this represents our only response.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
3,797
Bill Bruders said:
There are several details of this transaction that have not been made public and won't be because they surround very sensitive business matters which I hope people will respect. As a general comment on this subject however I doubt that any cleaner in this group would like one of their sales representatives going out on a public board complaining about a sale that another one of their sales reps got. What I can tell everyone is that the price we sell the product for (in this case a Pro1200, which just a couple weeks ago Chris said we hardly sold any of BTW) would be exactly the same to either distributor so no favoritism at all on our part. Unfortunately that can't be said for the cleaner who has 2 other Pro 1200's and wants to purchase his new unit from the distributor he has been doing business with for years. Folks we live in a free market society, competition is part of what makes us great. How would any of you like it if you pulled into a McDonalds and they asked for your zip code and they told you I’m, sorry you can’t purchase your food from this McDonalds’ because you live in a franchise area for another McDonalds’?
What we have is a distributor that wants the manufacturer to force a customer to purchase from them after they couldn’t win the sale. Very sad that the choice was made to try to get good people on this board involved in this issue in an effort to strong arm a manufacturer into doing something that in a free market economy is quite frankly at a minimum unethical and potentially illegal. While I’m certain some folks will want to have further discussion on this issue this represents our only response.

That's what I was trying to say. FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

The supplier made money and the cleaner got the machine he wanted at a good price.
 
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
8,180
Location
PA
Name
I'm Rick James
packfancjh said:
After not hearing any response from a certain vendor of ours we decided to air our frustrations and to warn people about what kind of company is residing in our industry. I previously made a thread about a vendor selling a pro 1200 direct drive mount to a non distributor of their products who in turn sold the mount to a customer in my territory. This had upset me in the worst way and left me wondering why would my vendor deliberately sell a mount to my competitor for a customer I was already working with on a deal? Why wouldn't they help their distributor in that area who has been loyal to them rather than someone who doesn't even sell their products? Why would they LIE to us about not accepting the sale and then do it anyways only to threaten us when confronted by us about it? Good questions and ones I would like an answer to but they won't respond. Pretty unprofessional if you ask me. If they would screw over their own distributors like that I couldn't imagine what they would do to the end user oh wait yes I could. After speaking with a few others within the industry it sounds like this isn't the first occurance of unprofessionalism by this company either. Does this sound like a proper way to do business?


It sucks, but look at it from their point of view. They probably want another distributor to peddle their product too. Why have one outlet when you can have two. Like the Godfather said himself.. "Its not personal, its business"
 

Desk Jockey

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
64,833
Location
A planet far far away
Name
Rico Suave
Sorry you got burned on this deal Chris.

However it ultimately comes down to the customer and this guy doesn't sound like he was very loyal to you. It sounds like he just used you to get a good deal on a machine from the distributor.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
18,838
Location
Benton KY USA
Name
Lee Stockwell
This isn't Judge Judy....

It may be entertaining but won't solve any problems either. Both parties may want to revisit their contracts and somehow make a win/win out of this.
 
F

FB7777

Guest
The only discrepancy in this is that Chris claims the other supplier was not a distributor of the 1200
 

packfancjh

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,551
Location
Sparks NV
Name
Chris Hagen
You're going to relate this to a purchase at a fast food reaturant? Really? Completely different worlds Bill. My big issue here is that we were LIED to by numerous people in Sapphire. People are allowed to shop where ever they want I understand that but Sapphire didn't even try to help your own disty try and get the sale you LIED to us instead. You make us follow guidelines but have none of your own.
 
F

FB7777

Guest
Chris,

Was the distributor that got the sale a sapphire dealer? In the original post , you claimed they were not.
 

dealtimeman

Everyday is Saturday.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10,878
Location
Fort Worth , Texas
Name
Michael
packfancjh said:
You're going to relate this to a purchase at a fast food reaturant? Really? Completely different worlds Bill. My big issue here is that we were LIED to by numerous people in Sapphire. People are allowed to shop where ever they want I understand that but Sapphire didn't even try to help your own disty try and get the sale you LIED to us instead. You make us follow guidelines but have none of your own.


The big question is why this problem, of which has happened multiple times to the same company(sapphire-legend brands ), keeps happening and of late is happening more frequently.

I don't hear this about other companies like prochem or even hydro master but as of late a repeating issue for sapphire. What's going on?
 

Jimbo

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,197
Mikey P
Post subject: It's a new day at Mikey's Board.com
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:55 am
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 28711
Location: Bridgeport
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Pailliotet
Business Name: MikeysBoard.hell
Website: www.santacruzclean.com
City: SCruz
State or Province: CA
Country: usa
Carpet Cleaner: Yes
Restoration: No
Repairs: No
Multi-truck: Yes
Fine Rugs: Yes
Tile/Stone: Yes
Equipment: .
Supplier: No
Professional assoc.?: No
Years in Trade: 23
AntiSpam: No
What is the 3 + 4: 7
You’ve heard the rumors, you may or may not have seen the banner below but yes its true. This coming week, Mikey’s Board will start selling and placing Banner ads.

Your first response may be who cares! or I want my five dollars back or Mikey is a sell out! I’m willing to bet there will be more IDGAS's then the other responses but I’ll address them anyways.

So, why am I doing this?

Duh.

The income to be earned from banners at this point is something none of you would deny your families if you were in my position. MB has gone from a silly little project originally created by me so that I could have a place to keep my

BB addiction alive after being banned from ICS and the Blue Board to what is now that number one forum in this country. You’ve seen what is it’s become in less than two years and who can guess as to what it will be in another two years from now.

In the beginning of MB our slogan was the Board With No Advertiser Influence.

Again..

Duh…

What company in it’s right mind would have paid me to place a banner on what was originally nothing more than a blog from some loudmouth vegan freAk from California?
Now that MB has become what many call the Pulse of the Industry, I have them lining up out the door for a chance to advertise here. Imagine that…

A few have already begun to call me Mikey Kessler due to fears that MB will become just another ICS like forum where the advertisers are protected from criticism and negativity. Rest assure folks, it ain't gonna happen. I know what makes MB successful and I promise to keep it that way. It’s the everyday posters that have been around since day one that are not afraid to speak their minds. The very same guys who have all been banned off of ICS. It’s the goofy, off the wall comments, jokes, freedom of speech and dysfunctional family feel that brings all us cleaners together every day to learn and have fun. If at any point an advertiser does not like what they see happening here and asks me to edit or remove comments, they will be the ones asked to leave.

Part of the contract they will be signing will include these rules..

~ It is to be understood and agreed that any disputes between Mikey’s Board members and its advertisers are to be handled between the two parties either privately or on the Board. Mikey’s Board, it’s owner and its staff are not be called upon to settle arguments or disputes.
~ Mikey’s Board is a community of mostly Owner/Operated Carpet Cleaners. Advertisers should be aware the environment on the Board. One should be aware of the varied opinions, subjects, emotions and the direction they could go. It is recommended that the advertiser spend some time getting familiar with Mikey’s Board before committing to this contract.
~ Advertisers are encouraged to a have a member representative who spends time weekly participating to become part of the online community. Offering helpful advice and ideas on a verity of subjects will go far to help your companies success as an advertiser. The board’s members will most likely frown upon heavy-handed sales tactics. Familiarity is the key to your success as an advertiser; the Board’s members with you, and you with the other Board members.
~ Be aware that suppliers and manufactures are allowed to promote their products or services via threads/posts on the Board even if they are not advertisers. Again, heavy handed sales tactics are frowned upon by the Board’s members.
~ Mikey’s Board, it’s owner and its staff will not officially endorse any product or service at any point in time.

With that being said, all I can ask is you give me a chance to prove myself before you rip me a new one.

Now, concerning the Supportive Membership program. If you would like to continue to pay your $5 a month you can feel good about knowing that all funds collected will be used 100% to improve the Board. We have lots of things planned to make MB even better than it is. Training videos, product testing and real world reviews, online classes and so forth. Some compensation for supplies to the Moderators here who go above and beyond the call of duty would be nice as well. We will also advertise the board more aggressively to boost membership. Tuition for classes and helping a brother in need will also be a possibility. Most (if not all) of the funds to do these things will be coming from the Banner funds but if you feel like helping out, who am I to say no.

If you don't want o continue you can cancel your subscription through your Pay Pal account at any time. For those few of you that have paid for the year in full, thank you very much. I owe you a few beers at connections or the next Mikefest.
All existing Supportive Members will retain their privileges and in case you have not notice many regular posters who were not members were given full access in the last few days.
Now to become a Supporting Member you will have to do one of two things, hopefully both. Fill out your profile accurately and in full so we know whom we are giving advice to, or place at a minimum 50 posts so in essence the same thing happens. We want to know who you are and how you fit into things here. No one likes a phony. All applicants will be investigated by Jimmy Ladwig to see if you’re on the up and up.
If at this point in time you would like to gain SM privileges, go into your User Control Panel and request to join the group.

So there you go. Bash away, run away or continue to enjoy all that MB has to offer.
Personally I feel having Banners here from all the major players in our industry will help us in the short run. Banners will give this place more validity in the eyes of the IICRC and the Mills and that can only help to strengthen our voice.
I think you'll be surprised by what companies will be showing up.


Let me thank you all again for making Mikey’s Board the World’s Greatest Carpet Cleaning Forum.



Mikey.
 

Bill Bruders

Supportive Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
268
Location
Burlington, WA
Name
Bill Bruders
dealtimeman said:
packfancjh said:
You're going to relate this to a purchase at a fast food reaturant? Really? Completely different worlds Bill. My big issue here is that we were LIED to by numerous people in Sapphire. People are allowed to shop where ever they want I understand that but Sapphire didn't even try to help your own disty try and get the sale you LIED to us instead. You make us follow guidelines but have none of your own.


The big question is why this problem, of which has happened multiple times to the same company(sapphire-legend brands ), keeps happening and of late is happening more frequently.

I don't hear this about other companies like prochem or even hydro master but as of late a repeating issue for sapphire. What's going on?

Michael I have no idea where you get your "statistics" but the only thing that is happening at Sapphire and all other Legend Brands companies is that our products have become so popular that distributors fight over the opportunity to sell them. :lol:
 

Desk Jockey

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
64,833
Location
A planet far far away
Name
Rico Suave
I don't know how PC currently handles there business but many moons ago we were involved with them and these same situations were actually common place.

Someone within the distributor network was always complaining about getting their toes stepped on or getting wronged. Larger distributorships that had more clout and were allowed a little more leverage in bending rules.

Some of it I attributed to the manufacturer, some to the TM purchaser and some to cut throat competition amongst distributors. It was a ruthless business back then, just the nature of the beast I guess. ??? :|
 

Jimbo

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,197
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 22070
Location: Firmly planted in fantasy land.
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Pailliotet
City: SCruz
State or Province: CA
Country: usa
Carpet Cleaner: Yes
Restoration: No
Repairs: No
Multi-truck: Yes
Fine Rugs: Yes
Tile/Stone: Yes
Equipment: .
Supplier: No
Professional assoc.?: No
Years in Trade: 23
AntiSpam: No
What is the 3 + 4: 7
Ok
I was going to let this go until I heard further but I’m going to stoke the fire here in hopes of a response by parties involved.
I’ll keep this real simple.



Mr Bruders and Mr Roden,

Is it true that your employees recently went through the Blueline building in Prescott AZ tossing loads of new/replacement/warranty Blueline slide in and Vortex parts in the trash?

Two very credible people told me that this was the case.

Now I’m going to hope that this was misinformation but I have the gut feeling that my sources were not fibbing.

If so, don’t you think you owe it to the hundreds if not thousands of Blueline and Vortex machine owners to have sold or donated these parts to a supplier, other manufacture or anybody who could have supplied owners of broken down machines in desperate need of said parts?

What kind of person/company could do such a thing? Do you have any idea how devastating down time is to the average one truck owner operator?
Any?

HELLO????!!!!!

I and most members here want to know what the mind set is of Legends/Sapphire before we spend one more cent with a company that could give a rats ass about us cleaners.




Please, please tell me I was misinformed.




Please?



Mike Pailliotet
 

Shane T

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,663
Location
Waukesha, WI
Name
Shane Tiegs
Do distributors have "contracts" with manufacturers? If so, why? Contracts usually benefit both parties. If a contracted dealer pays to same for a product as a non-contracted dealer, what is the benefit of a contract? I'm just asking.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom