what could be doing this.......

[Jim Martin]

I got a 3 story house that I have cleaned 4 different times with no problems...until......this last time I cleaned it..when I left ..everything looked fine...and a few days later she called me back and said the stairs looked worse then before it was cleaned....the only problem that I even seen on the stairs was where a dog laid on the first 3 but all of it came out.....when I went back to look at them...they were like they have not been cleaned in 20 years....but what ever this is..it is not just on the bull nose or the step its self....it is also all over the risers....and I could not figure out what it was or where it came from....so I re-cleaned them again and they looked fine....she called me back again today and said it all came back again....

I have never had any problems with this house before...
it is an off white sculptured nylon...nothing real fancy...
the stuff that is coming back up is a black and a light brown color...
its not from the dog...
it is not from being over wet....
they did not spill anything...99% of the time they use there elevator
I haven't changed anything except...I have been forced to use redline since Cobb screwed his pre-spray up...
but I have no problems anywhere in the entire house except this one flight of stairs...and there were a lot dirtier places in the house then what the stairs were........



any ideas.........

 

[Lee Stockwell]

HVAC cold air return under staircase?

 

[Jim Martin]

nope....it is not filtration soil.........

 

[Hoody]

Do you know if the pad/underlayment is secured by staples or by glue ?

 

[Dan Joner]

Looks like you might need to get the old Vortex back and redo it. shiteatinggrin

If you can't determine that there is visible soil when you look into the pile, maybe the next step would be to use some encap.

 

[joe harper]

Jim,
Are you using a RINSE...? If so...just Hot water Rinse... :!:

Re clean them one more time... :!:

BUT throw some blowers or an AIRPATH on them...Towel Dry..before leaving.. :!:

Get them DRY and the wicking will dissapear.. !gotcha!

ps ..The dog could be sneaking back on the stairs ...before they are completely dry..
Check your stair tool or upholstery tool for a FUR-BALL... :idea:

Never under estimate what the maid or home owner...could have used as a interium cleaning
RESOLVE....is famous for causing this problem... :x

 

[Royal Man]

Is it a Lab?

Those hunting dogs are greasy.(Water dogs)

If the carpet is poly/olefin it can have a affinity for oily soils, resulting in a shaded appearance.

Stars are also places where you can get tons of shadows from different directions.

I would test with a towel & spotter to see if you are leaving soil and use an inspection light to eliminate shadows.

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim,
Are you using a RINSE...? If so...just Hot water Rinse... :!:

Re clean them one more time... :!:

BUT throw some blowers or an AIRPATH on them...Towel Dry..before leaving.. :!:

Get them DRY and the wicking will dissapear.. !gotcha!

ps ..The dog could be sneaking back on the stairs ...before they are completely dry..
Check your stair tool or upholstery tool for a FUR-BALL... :idea:

Never under estimate what the maid or home owner...could have used as a interium cleaning
RESOLVE....is famous for causing this problem... :x

I am using phiber-guard for a rinse..( which is supposed to help with wicking)......been using it for about a month now with no problems....I used it threw out the entire house and had no issues..the only place I got any animal hair was on the first 3 steps.....the dog is a black lab that is 7 months old and is scared to death to go up the stairs.......but it lays on the first 3.....
I will take my fans with me when I go back and do it again and see what happens.....my dry times are as good as they were with the vortex.....to be honest....if I thought I was going to have a wicking issue I figured it would of been on the second story stairs or the 3rd floor this is not an easy house to do..really long runs to get to the top floor...the stairs that are giving me the problem are on the first floor....everything else is ok...as I clean my way down I remove the extra vacuum hose that I no longer need...........

 

[ruff]

Jim, When you separate the tufts is the black/brown color just on the tips or also at the base?

 

[sweendogg]

Pull up a corner of the stairs or have an installer do it but inspect the backing and pad.. There are certain pads that could create this problem WHEN they start to break down. One that comes to mind are several black pads that used a weaker bonding agent other than straight urethane and as they broke down, they turned quite litterally to a very fine dust. I've seen this get through the backing and into the base of the carpet that we were removing. And its such a fine particulate that it could very easily wick up.

if that is not the case then check for other dry soiling or residue.

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim, When you separate the tufts is the black/brown color just on the tips or also at the base?

all the way thru.........

 

[Jim Martin]

Pull up a corner of the stairs or have an installer do it but inspect the backing and pad.. There are certain pads that could create this problem WHEN they start to break down. One that comes to mind are several black pads that used a weaker bonding agent other than straight urethane and as they broke down, they turned quite litterally to a very fine dust. I've seen this get through the backing and into the base of the carpet that we were removing. And its such a fine particulate that it could very easily wick up.

if that is not the case then check for other dry soiling or residue.

I can check.....these homes are about..3 or 4 years old...and they use the elevator more then the stairs.....

 

[sweendogg]

The pad breakdown is not dependent on the traffic but rather how quickly it dries out. You mention you have cleaned these several times as well. so that little bit of moisture could be just enough to break down these pads. Unfortunatly many retail stores use them to say they offer slab rubber which is one of the best pads for a carpet... But as a cheap knock off they severely underperform and breakdown compared to a quality slab rubber.

 

[ruff]

Evidently it is a saturation.
Could be that it is coming from the pad as David suggsts or that it came from the top.
However by now it is in the pad and in the glue layer.

It really depends on how much time you want to spend correcting it.

If you are not interested in spending a lot of time, I would not wet clean again.
I'd bonnet with an encapsulating/anti-wicking chemical. Topical treatment for sure, but may do the job.

I've had stairs that kept on releasing brown stuff for ever. I'd wash and wash and wash and it kept on coming.
God knows what the owners have done. Sometime it was associated with the dog being wet, but that would be limited to just a few stairs. I've had it happen near an elevator shaft. When the elevator would go up and down, it will create a pressure change that caused pollutants to be sucked in.

 

[Jim Martin]

so am I understanding this correct..that you think that I may be getting the padding wet on this one particular stair case......

 

[Mikey P]

is the first sign that the Blue Line is no Vortex?

 

[Royal Man]

When I run in to this on steps.

I use my 12" orbital machine & pad with some encap juice and fix it in a few minutes.

Then off the the next job.

 

[Jim Martin]

is the first sign that the Blue Line is no Vortex?

no....when I do a run this long I kick it up on high and can get the same dry times as the vortex....I know I am not over wetting them and they are just damp to the touch when I get done....one would think that if it was the machine difference that I would of had problems further away from the machine....

 

[davegillfishing]

i would re clean them with some powermax
and see what happens..that seems to be the wild card.
i have a job that i have been doing for 3 ears and the master bedroom
streaks on my every time..no matter what i do or how slow or fast i clean
it, it streaks in different places every time. all the carpet in the house is
the same cut pile builders grade..i have pulled the carpet and pad back
and see nothing..it has gotten to the point that when she books we book
the next morning to swing by to rinse out the streaks..takes a few mins and
then they dont come back till the next cleaning.??

 

[Hoody]

Pull up a corner of the stairs or have an installer do it but inspect the backing and pad.. There are certain pads that could create this problem WHEN they start to break down. One that comes to mind are several black pads that used a weaker bonding agent other than straight urethane and as they broke down, they turned quite litterally to a very fine dust. I've seen this get through the backing and into the base of the carpet that we were removing. And its such a fine particulate that it could very easily wick up.

Those were my thoughts exactly. Has to do something with the pad, or maybe the adhesive used to hold the pad in place if it isn't stapled down ?

 

[Willy P]

so am I understanding this correct..that you think that I may be getting the padding wet on this one particular stair case......

I installed for 6 years before I started cleaning and I've never seen pad on a riser. Bring the pad down to cover a bull nose, but never a riser.

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":2odfgxki]so am I understanding this correct..that you think that I may be getting the padding wet on this one particular stair case......

I installed for 6 years before I started cleaning and I've never seen pad on a riser. Bring the pad down to cover a bull nose, but never a riser.[/quote:2odfgxki]

good point...and I do not believe there is pad on the riser......I also really don't think that they are glued.....if they are it will be a first........

 

[Willy P]

You should be able to feel the tack strip right on the crotch of the stair.

 

[Joel D]

Along the lines of what David said. There has to be something going on in or under the backing.

If you have some basic installer tools-tacker, stair tool, kicker just take up the bottom step from the bottom and look, it wont take long at all or just forget flushing it and encap it with a cloth like was mentioned.

One or the other or both or it will never end imo

 

[sweendogg]

so am I understanding this correct..that you think that I may be getting the padding wet on this one particular stair case......

Not necessarily... But take a carpet sample and clean it like you would a set of stairs. You would still be surprised how much moisture can get to the backing.. It doesn't have to be saturated.. even a little moisture coupled with the bad pad, over a couple of cleanings, the wet and drying will expediate the dry out of the pad.

 

[Bill G. Martin]

I would bet money on this..........
walk thru the laundry room and look on the shelf over the washer dryer......

Bet you will see a spray can of Lysol or Fabreeze......

People love that stuff.....even have some Hubby's who spray the stuff on the carpet.

Lysol's can clearly states it is not made for Textile use.....so maybe she sprays it only in the air and it settles on the steps. She is spraying that area because of the dog smell.

If anybody is doing a good job, I am sure it is cousin Jim.....

Homeowners will not admit to using this stuff, but it just "wipes" the finish right off of the carpet fibers and leaves the fibers with a wet tacky feel, like they are not dry.

Love My Carpets Powder is another culprit.....

Bill in Central Florida

 

[Jim Martin]

been using the same stair tool that I have had since I started cleaning carpets almost 9 years ago....same one I use to clean these stairs the last 3 times........

 

[XTREME1]

is there a door at the topl of the stairs? reclean and open the door and leave it open so the moisture isn'[t trapped

 

[davegillfishing]

guys..he has been doing the same thing with the same tools for years..only difference is
his pre spray..??

 

[Hoody]

Wouldn't it have affected the rest of the carpet then Dave, and not just these stairs ?