What Do You Call This Cleaning Method?

Jim Pemberton

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Here is a cleaning method definition that I came across:

"A foaming or non foaming detergent is applied and agitated into a carpet with a rotary or counter rotating brush......After drying, residual detergent and suspended soils are removed during susequent vacuuming during routine maintenance"

Anyone care to define what you would call this cleaning method?
 

dgardner

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Sounds like verbiage out of a patent application. No mention is made of the cleaning solution encapsulating the soil, so I would call it shampooing.
 
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Jim Pemberton

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I had to leave out some of the words to make my point Dan. But I understand that the wording is clumsy.
 
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Desk Jockey

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2015 Chavez encapsulation method 2.56 version 8.
Not funny! bitch! :winky:


how bouts this?

"A unique cleaning system where as a cleaning solution that is designed with anti-resoiling properties is agitated into a carpet using planetary action or counter rotating action to ensure thorough application of the cleaning solution on to the fibers.

Once dried the remaining solution and soils are removed during routine vacuuming"
 

Jimmy L

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Yes it's the SHAMPOO method...................there ain't NO encapsulation...............method.

Just a marketing BS name to sell more....................SHAMPOO.

And I really don't think there is that much difference in the chemistry then and now.

Just taking a $12 gallon of chem and getting upwards of $40 plus.

And just like getting a college degree is the biggest FRAUD in the United States so is all this eNcAPSuLATiON BS.................is the biggest FRAUD in our industry.
 

Desk Jockey

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Yes it's the SHAMPOO method...................there ain't NO encapsulation...............method.
Just a marketing BS name to sell more....................SHAMPOO.
And I really don't think there is that much difference in the chemistry then and now.
Just taking a $12 gallon of chem and getting upwards of $40 plus.
And just like getting a college degree is the biggest FRAUD in the United States so is all this eNcAPSuLATiON BS.................is the biggest FRAUD in our industry.
Enough beating around the bush James. Tell us how you really feel! :winky:
 

Jim Pemberton

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Yes it's the SHAMPOO method...................there ain't NO encapsulation...............method.

Just a marketing BS name to sell more....................SHAMPOO.

And I really don't think there is that much difference in the chemistry then and now.

Just taking a $12 gallon of chem and getting upwards of $40 plus.

And just like getting a college degree is the biggest FRAUD in the United States so is all this eNcAPSuLATiON BS.................is the biggest FRAUD in our industry.

I thought that too once Jimmy, but I was wrong.

Some of the recent tests I've seen of these products in the magazines with full strength or 50/50 dilution bothered me.

They bothered me a great deal.

So I spent the past few weeks talking to chemists who are either independent consultants or former employees of formulators. These guys have no vested interest in supporting the companies that sell these products.

The fact is this:

Encap products are significantly different from shampoos. In fact, MUCH more different than I thought.

More on that in an upcoming thread.

In the meantime:

You're a good man Jimmy. I like your sense of direct integrity.

I just hope you follow my thoughts on the other thread with an open mind.
 

Jim Pemberton

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Yes it's the SHAMPOO method...................there ain't NO encapsulation...............method.

On this part, you and I are more in agreement.

The definition that I started the thread with was how "The Shampoo Method" is defined.

My father shampooed carpet 50 years ago. This was his method:

1. Thorough vacuuming of the carpet. He used a pile lifter and a vacuum cleaner on many carpets, just the vacuum on others, depending on the type of carpet and soil load.

2. The shampoo contained a soil retardent, and he applied it through rotary scrubber, though he also used floor pads (not bonnets, but polishing pads) as well.

3. The carpet was then wet vacuumed (later he used a Chemstractor so that it could be wet vacuumed in one step). He noticed VERY little shampoo ever came up in the vacuum tank though.

4. He returned a couple of days later to remove blocks and tabs, and at that time vacuumed, or pile lifted and vacuumed the carpet. There was often more dry soil (and dry shampoo residue) in his vacuum bags than there was in the vacuum cleaner when he "pre-vacuumed".

What I described is nearly identical to how we today describe encapsulation. But the one SIGNIFICANT difference is how much cleaner we can get carpet because of how different the chemistry is from what was used 50 (or even 25) years ago. As I mentioned to Jimmy, more on that later.

But for now, let me ask this:

How many of you who are doing great work out there with "encapsulation cleaning" would be doing it if it had been sold to you (as a concept) as "shampoo cleaning"?

The fact is we are STILL fighting the battle of "steam" vs "shampoo" even though "shampooing" as it was once done is about as dead as wooly mammoths are today. But we are so averse to it we are like the hawthorn trees that grow around here and still have the long dagger like spikes they needed to protect them when mammoths roamed the earth, even though they are long gone...

But I digress.

We owe Rick Gelinas a debt of gratitude for coming to an understanding that unique chemistry changed the entire story of the shampoo method, and that in the renaming of it, we could once again embrace this very valid method, and in doing so, create a good and effective cleaning alternative for carpet maintenance.

I have some concerns about shortcuts I see cleaners taking with this method, and some things that are being said by cleaners and trainers on how it works, but the concept is valid:

My business today was built on cleaning carpet in the above fashion 50 years (and more) ago, and today its a far better method (if done properly) because of the advanced chemistry that wasn't available then.
 
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Desk Jockey

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Jim I feel the thing that many over look it that it will take a serious effort on the front end in vacuuming. Unlike HWE where you can just pull your hose off your tool and vacuum up any missed debris. You cannot do that with Encap, a thorough vacuuming prior to cleaning will save you a lot of frustration as you clean and keep you from post vacuuming.

Tools like the Cimex kicks loose debris to the edge of the room and will look horrible if left unvacuumed. Vacuuming prior to cleaning is already your best vesicle for soil removal of any method but with low moisture there is an even greater need for emphasis on this phase.

We use and upright and a backpack for edging. Backpacks make fast work of it and really help you getting those tight areas that an upright can't get well.
 
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Mikey P

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4. He returned a couple of days later to remove blocks and tabs, and at that time vacuumed, or pile lifted and vacuumed the carpet. There was often more dry soil (and dry shampoo residue) in his vacuum bags than there was in the vacuum cleaner when he "pre-vacuumed".


So the return visit was booked at the same time as the cleaning appointment?
I guess house wives with time on their hands was more common place.

What were the dry times back then?




I have no doubt that this new Shampoo method works as advertised, what with the crystals coming up over time. We have too many commercial repeats where we see longevity and non returning spills to have any doubt.
Are we as an industry using the term "Encapsulation" in an attempt to make old sound new again to facility managers who have been around long enough to have dealt with crappy cleaners who used cheap products and big fluffy bonnets that provided no agitation?

To be honest, I feel goofy using the term "Encapsulation" when describing our low moisture method to those ask for a method description. Sounds like I'm trying to hide something (no pun intended)...I'd rather say "Our Low Moisture process"...
 

Desk Jockey

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I'd rather say "Our Low Moisture process"...
That's what we call it.

Its funny how everything comes back around. As a 12-year old kid I was the vacuum boy for my father prior to the HWE era. My father vacuumed with the pile lifter and I edged the room with a crevice tool and tank vacuum. I think vacuumed up the foam as he shampooed the carpet. Flash forward and we have better solutions and better machines for application but its basically the same system. :biggrin:
 

Desk Jockey

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Nothing special, Shark, Hoover, whatever has the best suck at the time. We run them until they quit performing and then just buy new ones.
Proteam backpacks, we have quite a few of them. They work well for a lot of the work we process.
 
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Ray Burnfield

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Shampoo was all there was available to "clean" carpeting up to the 70's.
You'd take a floor machine with a bassine brush, pile lifter and a wet vacuum.
First step was to use the pile lifter to break up the soap and dirt from prior cleanings.
Next you filled the solution tank with Shampoo and started scrubbing the carpet with the bassine brush.
Then you would try a pick up the wet soap with the vacuum.
You end up with a layer soap on top of a layer of dirt and you would do that every time you cleaned.
It left the carpet with multiple layers of dirt and soap until the carpet rotted out. Then you would replace the carpet and start the process over.
Dry foam and Bonnet cleaning reduced the amount of shampoo used for cleaning dramatically. It was quicker and the carpets dried much faster.
When extraction first came out it was amazing! The soap that you rinsed out was like shaving cream.
One customer accused us of ruining their brown carpet because we turned it red. It took awhile to convince them that red was the original color of the carpet.
Also wool carpeting was the norm.
Those were the days
 

Desk Jockey

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Fortunately by the early 70's we were making the transitioning away from shampoo. Although we used it for decades longer as preconditioning step on heavily soiled carpet.

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