What is going on here? Carpet delaminating

boazcan

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We ran across this last week. Carpet is delaminating in this spot and a couple more smaller spots.

We noticed this when vacuuming. Customer was not home, but we took pictures. However, the burden seems to be falling back on me.

2 yr old carpet. I had her call the carpet store to have them look at it. Is there anyway this is going to fall under a warranty claim? I don't see how this could be successfully repaired. Maybe an insert.....

7yveny4u.jpg


e2emegum.jpg


hy7uvyjy.jpg



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GCCLee

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Is there an animal in this place?

Only time I seen that was a crappy install or a mad dog!



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GCCLee

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Power stretch the shit out of it and hope theres enough to hit that edge. Maybe a fancy wood transition piece?


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Desk Jockey

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If you wouldn't have said you found it while vacuuming, I'd say it looked like a powerhead grabbed it and pulled and caused it to separate.
Is there much moisture tracked in there? Could it be getting wet frequently?

I like Chris's idea of a nice transition piece.
 
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Willy P

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Apply a little seaming glue between the secondary and primary backing - VERY SPARINGLY -, cover with a weight and it should solve the initial problem. Put in a track with some T or E cap. Then yer dun!
 
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boazcan

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If you wouldn't have said you found it while vacuuming, I'd say it looked like a powerhead grabbed it and pulled and caused it to separate.
Is there much moisture tracked in there? Could it be getting wet frequently?

I like Chris's idea of a nice transition piece.

Wand only. No power head.

It looks like if she is mopping that it could be funneling in the grout line

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Spurlington

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Maybe install a tile edge guard while they're at it .. the grout looks like a downspout guide allowing liquid to funnel into the carpet area .. I'm only assuming at this point .. good possibility though



Did yous ever clean their tile - cause if you did, they'll probably be looking at you causing this issue
 
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Charlie Lyman

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If it became my problem, I would try to stretch it past the damaged part and reattach it. I might even put some hot glue at the part that had the damage to keep it from happening again. If I couldn't stretch it, I would put an insert there. I wouldn't change the transition because if the customer isn't happy with the way it looks you would have to fix that along with the original issue.
As far as to what caused it, could be any of the above mentioned ideas.


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Desk Jockey

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If they are claiming its caused by cleaning, why would it not be delaminated everywhere?

I would also tend to agree with Willy a nice bed of latex would probably hold better at the damaged area than the rest of the carpet.
 

Ron K

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Is the tac strip Rusted? That would show excess water. Does the subfloor flex or move right there? Looks like it is right in that sweet spot where ever step lands? Is the tile heated??
 
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Jack May

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If you have photos, the time stamp should help establish its record early in your visit.

Besides, I'm with Fred, I'm looking at it as an installation issue at this stage. Standards require seam sealant as a minimum, some manufacturers take that further and insist on it across transition areas as well. But that should really be the role of an inspector to establish that especially if the carpet is only 2 years old. If it is a lack of seam sealant, then it won't only be that area, look carefully elsewhere and you'll probably see other areas. When I do an inspection, I look for consistencies/inconsistencies across the entire installation rather than a single localised issue.

As Ron said, a careful lifting to expose the perimeter gripper will help to establish if the local environment has contributed to the situation. Be careful pushing this too far without proof. Slightly easier down under with so mand jute secondary backings still in use. As I said, be careful, you have no definitive proof that the rusty pins are from THIS INSTALLATION. What if the carpet was replaced under an insurance claim from a previous flood?

Finally, to the repair. Yes easily done with the right tools, glue and a little skill mixed with patience. But before you do, establish the aboe as to whether YOU need to do the repair because its your fault. If you can prove its nothing to do with you, don't touch it! I'd be reluctant to touch it anyway as it'll become your problem regardless. I use both latex and hot melt glue, in this case I would go for the hot melt. It gives a more permanent solution, but it is a fast curing solution so doesn't give you 'stuff around time' to work the repair. You need to ensure no pile gets caught down in the join as it will highlight it. Start with the least affected side, and you need a gun with a long nozzle so you can reach in easily. Have the gun really hit, and lay a thin layer of glue working from the back of the delamination out, stopping frequently to pressure the face down into the glue and bed it in well. It should cure quickly then keep working. The biggest issue is doing too big an area at a time. Once the least affected side is complete, go to the other side and work that all in in a similar fashion. Once all done, look to stretch past the gully slightly although that will be difficult given the angle of the join coming in, it'll tend to want to pucker on you. Trim the edge, seal that with seam sealant then tuck down firmly into the gully.

Taking care, you should be able to do an invisible repair.... If it is proven to be your problem.

John
 

billyeadon

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Well I can tell you that one of the questions on the CCT exam is what is the number one cause of de lamination. It is a manufacturing defect due to the fillers they use to extend the latex. With the Wet Study done years ago water from cleaning or a loss rarely cause that type of delam. And next it is lack of seam sealer which is skipped in 90% of installs.
 
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Dude the more you get into it the more yer going to own it. It you didn't tear it up with a 175 rotary or your rotary extractor then you don't "own" it. 2 year old carpet? Are you sure? Awful quick even in back of a crapy install (bout 95+ % of installs are crap) to be seeing that kind of delamination. Impossible, no, but strange. If you're going to keep going with this with the customer I'd advice them your cleaning procedures don't do this and to contact the store they purchase from. You could go the distance and repair with latex glue, then stretch and re-tuck but if you're not comfortable with that then find someone who is. Be nice and professional about it and state the facts. We all see the unexpected, how we deal with it makes all the difference.
 

Vivers

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Looks to me like from mopping it has continually gotten wet and is now falling apart. Since it butts right up to the tile
 

Shane T

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If you have photos, the time stamp should help establish its record early in your visit.

Besides, I'm with Fred, I'm looking at it as an installation issue at this stage. Standards require seam sealant as a minimum, some manufacturers take that further and insist on it across transition areas as well. But that should really be the role of an inspector to establish that especially if the carpet is only 2 years old. If it is a lack of seam sealant, then it won't only be that area, look carefully elsewhere and you'll probably see other areas. When I do an inspection, I look for consistencies/inconsistencies across the entire installation rather than a single localised issue.

As Ron said, a careful lifting to expose the perimeter gripper will help to establish if the local environment has contributed to the situation. Be careful pushing this too far without proof. Slightly easier down under with so mand jute secondary backings still in use. As I said, be careful, you have no definitive proof that the rusty pins are from THIS INSTALLATION. What if the carpet was replaced under an insurance claim from a previous flood?

Finally, to the repair. Yes easily done with the right tools, glue and a little skill mixed with patience. But before you do, establish the aboe as to whether YOU need to do the repair because its your fault. If you can prove its nothing to do with you, don't touch it! I'd be reluctant to touch it anyway as it'll become your problem regardless. I use both latex and hot melt glue, in this case I would go for the hot melt. It gives a more permanent solution, but it is a fast curing solution so doesn't give you 'stuff around time' to work the repair. You need to ensure no pile gets caught down in the join as it will highlight it. Start with the least affected side, and you need a gun with a long nozzle so you can reach in easily. Have the gun really hit, and lay a thin layer of glue working from the back of the delamination out, stopping frequently to pressure the face down into the glue and bed it in well. It should cure quickly then keep working. The biggest issue is doing too big an area at a time. Once the least affected side is complete, go to the other side and work that all in in a similar fashion. Once all done, look to stretch past the gully slightly although that will be difficult given the angle of the join coming in, it'll tend to want to pucker on you. Trim the edge, seal that with seam sealant then tuck down firmly into the gully.

Taking care, you should be able to do an invisible repair.... If it is proven to be your problem.

John

John, I know we see it all the time, but is it proper to use smooth edge along a transition? Seems to me foot traffic over this type of install causes premature failures, ie fraying, backing deterioration, and separation.
 

SamIam

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First off wouldn't you see the rip or separation before vacuuming??? Even if it's gotten wet, when it dries it's gonna hold together. What vacuum did you use? Was it at all visible before you started?

Next buy glue gun trim off excess strings glue it back down and run!


....
 

Harry Myers

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It looks like it was cut short in the first place. The carpet may be delaminating from the day it was made. The tackless will where it out in a walk way quick. I would latex to it kick it up ad charge for it.
 

Jack May

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Great to have your input Harry. Seems like a poor layout to have an angle join finishing on a transition area.

Shane, I don't know your standards, so I can't comment on the requirements of perimeter gripper across transition, Harry would know. It happens all the time in NZ and seems pretty stadnard, but in Aussie, I know they use alum joiners that have capping pieces to cover and protect the edges. Doesn't leave as clean a transition though.

John
 

boazcan

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At what point do I try to "help" out and not own it. This is my real struggle. I know we didnt cause it. My guy didn't do his job in reporting the issue at the time of finding.

I've gotten myself in trouble before trying to help.

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Willy P

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At what point do I try to "help" out and not own it. This is my real struggle. I know we didnt cause it. My guy didn't do his job in reporting the issue at the time of finding.

I've gotten myself in trouble before trying to help.

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A rock and a hard place Bryan. I highly doubt you had any influence on the problem. Are they trying to make you own it?
 

GaryM

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That seems to be one of my common repairs I find to do. Everyone installing tile hallways or other rooms in addition with the existing carpet. It is a lack of seam glue & the tile guy they got off craigslist could care less. after I repair those I like to staple to the tack strip
 

boazcan

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ty6a4umu.jpg


Here is the inspection report on this. He was hired by Bob's. Is there anything actual "said" in this report?

Bobs sent the installer out to fix it and he said that it could not be fixed. He didn't want to own the problem, no problem there.



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