When it comes to Big Trucks..

[Mikey P]

A member here who is truck shopping asked me what BT I would buy. I have heard rumors the Mitsubishi were fading out production in the states and no one yet was building on the International platforms. Everyone at Blueline @ Vegas was gaga over the new Izuzu.


I suggested he call around to both companies and get the skinny.
I also suggested to call FMI (as they are the kings of these type of rigs) to check on who will be offering what down the road

Ok Mike here's what I found out:

I called DeEtte at Aerotech and was informed of the following:

1. They are running a "blow-out" discount on all "UCS 600 XT" models which are built on 2007 year Mitsubishi and Sterling trucks. (Mitsubishi and Sterling are virtually the same vehicles.)

2. They will not build on an ISUZU NPR truck (or any other truck) because they "have not engineered their machine to work on an ISUZU".

3. Although hesitant to do, they WILL build on 2008 Mitsubishi or Sterling trucks but that this may cause the operator to be occasionally and randomly shut down in the middle of the job for 15 to 20 minutes. The reason for this is that all 2008 light duty diesel commercial trucks have a new "emissions tier" that requires an "afterburner" system that works similar to a catalytic converter. This system senses how much particulate is in the exhaust system and randomly goes into "burn mode" without warning. If I understand this new 2008 emissions system correctly, it uses raw diesel fuel to ignite a burner in the converter which raises the exhaust temperature to over 1500 degrees instantaneously.

4. Aero is working with Mitsubishi engineers to find a way to get around the problem but because the emissions system is computer controlled along with the rest of the engine that it may just be something that the operator must "live with".


I called Blueline Equipment and Kevin Miller (engineer) informed me:

1. They have built one Vortex on a Mitsubishi for testing and have no intentions of ever building another. Kevin Miller said they "were not impressed" and that even if they were, the 2008 and newer Mitsubishi and Sterling trucks do not have a "PTO Mode" that will prevent the afterbuner emissions system from regenerating (turning itself on) while the operator is cleaning. The ISUZU NPR has a "PTO Mode" that prevents regeneration when the PTO is turning.

I called Don Emerson at FMI trucks and was told:

1. Both Sterling and Mitsubishi have discontinued several models of their trucks this year from poor sales and that future manufacturing of the FUSO truck are in question. They have also already announced the discontinuation of the sterling light duty line.

2. ISUZU has over 500 service centers compared to just 95 for Mitsubishi and Sterling.


All three companies were very courteous and professional. Aero tech and FMI seem to know very little about carpet cleaning however.

The 08 Mitsius will shut down at random???????
Thats not gonna fly.

I wonder why AT wont/haven't yet engineered the UCS for a Izuzu.?


I know new Vortex sales are steady right now for some strange reason.

I wonder about AT.
Wizz?
Steve G?
Cermack?...Do you guys know?

 

[gasaxe]

something doesnt make sense. all light duty 08 diesels have a "dpf"...diesel particulate filter. They all have to go through a regen cycle once that filter starts to become plugged. It is sensed through exhaust backpressure. I dont understand why a aerotech would have to "shutdown" during regen. They should just be able to continue cleaning as any truck on the road doesnt have to stop driving and go through regen. I was behind a f250 powerstroke today and you could see/smell it going through regen.
I would have concern with the emissions legality of the isuzu/vortex if it bypassing the dpf while cleaning. also if its running through the dpf and not allowing the truck to go through regen then at some point the dpf would become clogged to the point that peformance and fuel economy would suffer dramatically. Considering the nature of how these trucks could spend a large portion of running time sitting at a house cleaning it would be interesting to hear from bleu line how they are circumventing this issue. specially for you californya freeks.
I hear fines for non compliance on emissions are pretty steep. Be kindof a bad deal to have em show up at house you were cleaning and give you a ticket specially if you got some sort of "green" cleaning advertising on your rig..lol

 

[FB7777]

One thing is certain for me... if I went with a big truck, it would either be a Butler in the GMC (Isuzu) Cab or I would put a big slide-in in the box.

sporadic shut downs and limited service centers wouldn't fly with me

 

[adamh]

Its not an AT vs Vortex thing. The Sterling is out of production. So no new trucks from them. The 2008 and up UD and Mistu will go into its "Regen Cycle" anytime the computer tells it too, or when the DPF senses its time for a burn to happen in the filter. The Isuzu will not and does not have to do this during PTO operation.

The reason the AT would have to shut down when it goes into its DPF regen is because the engine exhaust gets over 1400 degrees when doing the "filter burn". Do you want 1400 degrees going thru your Heat Exchanger? That could be a very nice bomb. The reason AT is saying you will have to stop cleaning is because the HX can not handle 1400+ degrees. So you would have to shut the PTO off and let the truck run during its "Burn Cycle". I would hate to have to shut my truck down 1-2 times a day for 10-20 min. during cleaning.

The Isuzu is set up to go thru its DPF burn after you take it out of PTO mode and are driving to the next job. The UD and Mistu will do it whenever it wants to. PTO engaged or not. These "Regen Cycles" happen waaaaaay before the filter gets plugged. The truck could skip several "Burns" before any plugging will happen. If the Isuzu skips a burn because you are in PTO it just waits until you are driving to your next job. You can run the Isuzu Vortex many many hours straight in PTO mode and never have a DPF issue. However, it will go thru its burn as soon as you drive to your next job. We have a company that purchased 4 of these 08's this year. They clean big theaters and run the PTO for 10 hours straight many nights a week. After the job the truck does its burn on the way back to the shop.

BLUEline knew this was coming 2 years ago and started planning ahead. We have worked very closely with Isuzu engineers and developed a system that completely complies with all State and Federal guidelines. We did not want to put ourselves in a situation that would not allow us to build on current model trucks. We have several 08-09 trucks cleaning everyday and the DPF thing is really nothing to worry about. Isuzu engineers have been the best to work with.

Many people think a company like BLUEline and AT just buy any ol truck and start slapping PTOs and stuff on it. In order to do this we have to have the truck manufactures blessing to do so. We spend weeks and thousands of dollars with engineers making sure the Vortex is going to comply with all regulations and warranties.

So don't worry GASAXE you don't have to (concern with the emissions legality of the isuzu/vortex ) There will be no tickets issued, we have done our homework.

 

[steve frasier]

after reading this thread and the Genesis thread I am glad I put my money with the V

 

[adamh]

One thing is certain for me... if I went with a big truck, it would either be a Butler in the GMC (Isuzu) Cab or I would put a big slide-in in the box.

sporadic shut downs and limited service centers wouldn't fly with me

When you run a slide in the truck motor is never running so you have no need to shut the truck down.
The Butler does not use the truck exhaust to heat the HX ( from what I understand ) so it would not matter if the truck is going thru its DPF Burn or not.
The Isuzu truck is #1 in the US with hundered of service centers. You will have one close.

 

[Mikey P]

I think I'll ban Terje.

 

[gasaxe]

Its not an AT vs Vortex thing. The Sterling is out of production. So no new trucks from them. The 2008 and up UD and Mistu will go into its "Regen Cycle" anytime the computer tells it too, or when the DPF senses its time for a burn to happen in the filter. The Isuzu will not and does not have to do this during PTO operation.

The reason the AT would have to shut down when it goes into its DPF regen is because the engine exhaust gets over 1400 degrees when doing the "filter burn". Do you want 1400 degrees going thru your Heat Exchanger? That could be a very nice bomb. The reason AT is saying you will have to stop cleaning is because the HX can not handle 1400+ degrees. So you would have to shut the PTO off and let the truck run during its "Burn Cycle". I would hate to have to shut my truck down 1-2 times a day for 10-20 min. during cleaning.

The Isuzu is set up to go thru its DPF burn after you take it out of PTO mode and are driving to the next job. The UD and Mistu will do it whenever it wants to. PTO engaged or not. These "Regen Cycles" happen waaaaaay before the filter gets plugged. The truck could skip several "Burns" before any plugging will happen. If the Isuzu skips a burn because you are in PTO it just waits until you are driving to your next job. You can run the Isuzu Vortex many many hours straight in PTO mode and never have a DPF issue. However, it will go thru its burn as soon as you drive to your next job. We have a company that purchased 4 of these 08's this year. They clean big theaters and run the PTO for 10 hours straight many nights a week. After the job the truck does its burn on the way back to the shop.

BLUEline knew this was coming 2 years ago and started planning ahead. We have worked very closely with Isuzu engineers and developed a system that completely complies with all State and Federal guidelines. We did not want to put ourselves in a situation that would not allow us to build on current model trucks. We have several 08-09 trucks cleaning everyday and the DPF thing is really nothing to worry about. Isuzu engineers have been the best to work with.

Many people think a company like BLUEline and AT just buy any ol truck and start slapping PTOs and stuff on it. In order to do this we have to have the truck manufactures blessing to do so. We spend weeks and thousands of dollars with engineers making sure the Vortex is going to comply with all regulations and warranties.

So don't worry GASAXE you don't have to (concern with the emissions legality of the isuzu/vortex ) There will be no tickets issued, we have done our homework.

good info, why not just kick out the exhaust diverter on the aero when goes into regen...one or two times a day droping a little a water temp for a few minutes doesnt seem like a big deal to me.
I assume that c.a.r.b. has approved the way blueline is bypassing the emissions system on the vortex..
I should say that im not trying to be a smartass. I wondered how this issue was going to be addressed. I knew this was coming awhile ago also as i have a brother that works for a aftermarket performance tuning company that makes tuners for diesel trucks. The dpf was a concern of theirs also in how they upgrade the tuning on those trucks. I know that in most areas anything that alters the emission system on any vehicle it has to go through c.a.r.b. to get aproval for installing on street driven vehicles. So many states are begining to go the california route with emission testing and certification. I would assume that blueline has their butt covered... ass....u....me..so i thought i would ask.

I dont think 1400 degrees is that big a deal on a heat exchanger that is built right. I had a 65 wisconsin that would throw out 1000 to 1100 deg. egts and had two exchangers i had built in memphis tenn. that are 8 years old and still good. It had no diverter on it just a dema valve dumping it the waste tank. As long as the diverter functions properly and there are safety devices in place shouldnt be a problem. If there is water in the exchanger its gonna cool the steel no? If the water gets too hot shut it down..

What happens on the isuzu if screws up and goes into regen while cleaning? What does dynalene do at 1400 deg.?

thanks for your answers.

 

[Rob Hobson]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

 

[gasaxe]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

if i were them i would look to build on a gasser instead of a diesel. These new diesel with the dpf get horrible fuel economy and the price of diesel is a buck more a gallon than gas. Used to be the same price or a little less and the diesel got better mpg considering the weight they could tote around. Ive been trying to figure what to do when i get ready for a new truck and although ive become a diesel nut I am not at all pleased about the emission systems and the drop in economy that comes with it.

 

[adamh]

Its not an AT vs Vortex thing. The Sterling is out of production. So no new trucks from them. The 2008 and up UD and Mistu will go into its "Regen Cycle" anytime the computer tells it too, or when the DPF senses its time for a burn to happen in the filter. The Isuzu will not and does not have to do this during PTO operation.

The reason the AT would have to shut down when it goes into its DPF regen is because the engine exhaust gets over 1400 degrees when doing the "filter burn". Do you want 1400 degrees going thru your Heat Exchanger? That could be a very nice bomb. The reason AT is saying you will have to stop cleaning is because the HX can not handle 1400+ degrees. So you would have to shut the PTO off and let the truck run during its "Burn Cycle". I would hate to have to shut my truck down 1-2 times a day for 10-20 min. during cleaning.

The Isuzu is set up to go thru its DPF burn after you take it out of PTO mode and are driving to the next job. The UD and Mistu will do it whenever it wants to. PTO engaged or not. These "Regen Cycles" happen waaaaaay before the filter gets plugged. The truck could skip several "Burns" before any plugging will happen. If the Isuzu skips a burn because you are in PTO it just waits until you are driving to your next job. You can run the Isuzu Vortex many many hours straight in PTO mode and never have a DPF issue. However, it will go thru its burn as soon as you drive to your next job. We have a company that purchased 4 of these 08's this year. They clean big theaters and run the PTO for 10 hours straight many nights a week. After the job the truck does its burn on the way back to the shop.

BLUEline knew this was coming 2 years ago and started planning ahead. We have worked very closely with Isuzu engineers and developed a system that completely complies with all State and Federal guidelines. We did not want to put ourselves in a situation that would not allow us to build on current model trucks. We have several 08-09 trucks cleaning everyday and the DPF thing is really nothing to worry about. Isuzu engineers have been the best to work with.

Many people think a company like BLUEline and AT just buy any ol truck and start slapping PTOs and stuff on it. In order to do this we have to have the truck manufactures blessing to do so. We spend weeks and thousands of dollars with engineers making sure the Vortex is going to comply with all regulations and warranties.

So don't worry GASAXE you don't have to (concern with the emissions legality of the isuzu/vortex ) There will be no tickets issued, we have done our homework.

good info, why not just kick out the exhaust diverter on the aero when goes into regen...one or two times a day droping a little a water temp for a few minutes doesnt seem like a big deal to me.
I assume that c.a.r.b. has approved the way blueline is bypassing the emissions system on the vortex..
I should say that im not trying to be a smartass. I wondered how this issue was going to be addressed. I knew this was coming awhile ago also as i have a brother that works for a aftermarket performance tuning company that makes tuners for diesel trucks. The dpf was a concern of theirs also in how they upgrade the tuning on those trucks. I know that in most areas anything that alters the emission system on any vehicle it has to go through c.a.r.b. to get aproval for installing on street driven vehicles. So many states are begining to go the california route with emission testing and certification. I would assume that blueline has their butt covered... ass....u....me..so i thought i would ask.

I dont think 1400 degrees is that big a deal on a heat exchanger that is built right. I had a 65 wisconsin that would throw out 1000 to 1100 deg. egts and had two exchangers i had built in memphis tenn. that are 8 years old and still good. It had no diverter on it just a dema valve dumping it the waste tank. As long as the diverter functions properly and there are safety devices in place shouldnt be a problem. If there is water in the exchanger its gonna cool the steel no? If the water gets too hot shut it down..

What happens on the isuzu if screws up and goes into regen while cleaning? What does dynalene do at 1400 deg.?

thanks for your answers.

The AT gets most of its heat from the truck exhaust HX. If you bypass that HX you will get 160 degree heat or less for 10-20 min. 1 or 2 jobs a day. I don't think most would like that? Not a big selling point.

BLUEline is not bypassing the emissions. Isuzu set it up to not "BURN" in PTO mode. Nothing is being bypassed.

If for some reason the Isuzu screwed up and did its burn ( it has PTO shut downs just in case ) but the diverler would divert the heat away.

 

[adamh]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

if i were them i would look to build on a gasser instead of a diesel. These new diesel with the dpf get horrible fuel economy and the price of diesel is a buck more a gallon than gas. Used to be the same price or a little less and the diesel got better mpg considering the weight they could tote around. Ive been trying to figure what to do when i get ready for a new truck and although ive become a diesel nut I am not at all pleased about the emission systems and the drop in economy that comes with it.

The new Isuzu gets better fuel economy than the UD ever did.
No truck manufacture ( Sterling, UD, Mitsu, Isuzu, Ford ) makes a PTO in a gas.

Diesel engines are made to run with the torque required to spin a big blower like this. Gas motors would never last as long and you would get 4 miles to the gallon. Gas motors run much hotter and wear out faster. That is why the Butler horse dies before the Butler.

 

[gasaxe]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

if i were them i would look to build on a gasser instead of a diesel. These new diesel with the dpf get horrible fuel economy and the price of diesel is a buck more a gallon than gas. Used to be the same price or a little less and the diesel got better mpg considering the weight they could tote around. Ive been trying to figure what to do when i get ready for a new truck and although ive become a diesel nut I am not at all pleased about the emission systems and the drop in economy that comes with it.

The new Isuzu gets better fuel economy than the UD ever did.
No truck manufacture ( Sterling, UD, Mitsu, Isuzu, Ford ) makes a PTO in a gas.

Diesel engines are made to run with the torque required to spin a big blower like this. Gas motors would never last as long and you would get 4 miles to the gallon. Gas motors run much hotter and wear out faster. That is why the Butler horse dies before the Butler.

i doubt 4 miles to the gallon. No doubt not as a good as the diesel but the gap has drastically narrowed between the diesel and gas engines bcause of the dpf/egr systems on the new diesels. A buddy of mine delivers furn. for a local furniture store. They just got a new zuzu with the 6.0 chevy. He said fuel econ. is not drastically different maybe 2-3mpg. but the driveability of the gasser is MUCH better. What does a 08 vortex get mpg wise loaded with water not figuring cleaning run time just driving down the road?
A 68 roots/md only takes 30-35 brake hp to turn i doubt the pump the vortex has on it is much more than that. That puts you at 60 to 70 horsepower gas/diesel needed to reliably drive it. I think a v8 gas engine would be more than capable of doing that and get decent fuel usage.
Im pretty sure you can set up a crank pulley pto. whats the cost difference between a zuzu with a diesel compared to the 6.0 chevy engine?

 

[gasaxe]

Its not an AT vs Vortex thing. The Sterling is out of production. So no new trucks from them. The 2008 and up UD and Mistu will go into its "Regen Cycle" anytime the computer tells it too, or when the DPF senses its time for a burn to happen in the filter. The Isuzu will not and does not have to do this during PTO operation.

The reason the AT would have to shut down when it goes into its DPF regen is because the engine exhaust gets over 1400 degrees when doing the "filter burn". Do you want 1400 degrees going thru your Heat Exchanger? That could be a very nice bomb. The reason AT is saying you will have to stop cleaning is because the HX can not handle 1400+ degrees. So you would have to shut the PTO off and let the truck run during its "Burn Cycle". I would hate to have to shut my truck down 1-2 times a day for 10-20 min. during cleaning.

The Isuzu is set up to go thru its DPF burn after you take it out of PTO mode and are driving to the next job. The UD and Mistu will do it whenever it wants to. PTO engaged or not. These "Regen Cycles" happen waaaaaay before the filter gets plugged. The truck could skip several "Burns" before any plugging will happen. If the Isuzu skips a burn because you are in PTO it just waits until you are driving to your next job. You can run the Isuzu Vortex many many hours straight in PTO mode and never have a DPF issue. However, it will go thru its burn as soon as you drive to your next job. We have a company that purchased 4 of these 08's this year. They clean big theaters and run the PTO for 10 hours straight many nights a week. After the job the truck does its burn on the way back to the shop.

BLUEline knew this was coming 2 years ago and started planning ahead. We have worked very closely with Isuzu engineers and developed a system that completely complies with all State and Federal guidelines. We did not want to put ourselves in a situation that would not allow us to build on current model trucks. We have several 08-09 trucks cleaning everyday and the DPF thing is really nothing to worry about. Isuzu engineers have been the best to work with.

Many people think a company like BLUEline and AT just buy any ol truck and start slapping PTOs and stuff on it. In order to do this we have to have the truck manufactures blessing to do so. We spend weeks and thousands of dollars with engineers making sure the Vortex is going to comply with all regulations and warranties.

So don't worry GASAXE you don't have to (concern with the emissions legality of the isuzu/vortex ) There will be no tickets issued, we have done our homework.

good info, why not just kick out the exhaust diverter on the aero when goes into regen...one or two times a day droping a little a water temp for a few minutes doesnt seem like a big deal to me.
I assume that c.a.r.b. has approved the way blueline is bypassing the emissions system on the vortex..
I should say that im not trying to be a smartass. I wondered how this issue was going to be addressed. I knew this was coming awhile ago also as i have a brother that works for a aftermarket performance tuning company that makes tuners for diesel trucks. The dpf was a concern of theirs also in how they upgrade the tuning on those trucks. I know that in most areas anything that alters the emission system on any vehicle it has to go through c.a.r.b. to get aproval for installing on street driven vehicles. So many states are begining to go the california route with emission testing and certification. I would assume that blueline has their butt covered... ass....u....me..so i thought i would ask.

I dont think 1400 degrees is that big a deal on a heat exchanger that is built right. I had a 65 wisconsin that would throw out 1000 to 1100 deg. egts and had two exchangers i had built in memphis tenn. that are 8 years old and still good. It had no diverter on it just a dema valve dumping it the waste tank. As long as the diverter functions properly and there are safety devices in place shouldnt be a problem. If there is water in the exchanger its gonna cool the steel no? If the water gets too hot shut it down..

What happens on the isuzu if screws up and goes into regen while cleaning? What does dynalene do at 1400 deg.?

thanks for your answers.

The AT gets most of its heat from the truck exhaust HX. If you bypass that HX you will get 160 degree heat or less for 10-20 min. 1 or 2 jobs a day. I don't think most would like that? Not a big selling point.

BLUEline is not bypassing the emissions. Isuzu set it up to not "BURN" in PTO mode. Nothing is being bypassed.





If for some reason the Isuzu screwed up and did its burn ( it has PTO shut downs just in case ) but the diverler would divert the heat away.

maybe at needs to install a blower heat exchanger like on the vortex...


Dont most pto devices run on these trucks only operate for short time period? i.e. wreckers/rollbacks,etc Not under extended low speed loading like what the vortex/carpet cleaning unit does...I cant see how cutting out regen for a extended period of time doesnt hamper the operation of the dpf/regen system. Be interesting to know how some of the trucks that are out there with a years run time (20,000 miles and 1200+hrs ) are doing with the dpf.. Those things are high dollar to replace. Letting one overfill then doing regen when convient cant be good for long term reliability of the dpf. But hey im just your average joe maybe yous guys got all that figured out.

 

[Mikey P]

you'd think AT would have a presence here...

 

[gasaxe]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

if i were them i would look to build on a gasser instead of a diesel. These new diesel with the dpf get horrible fuel economy and the price of diesel is a buck more a gallon than gas. Used to be the same price or a little less and the diesel got better mpg considering the weight they could tote around. Ive been trying to figure what to do when i get ready for a new truck and although ive become a diesel nut I am not at all pleased about the emission systems and the drop in economy that comes with it.

The new Isuzu gets better fuel economy than the UD ever did.
No truck manufacture ( Sterling, UD, Mitsu, Isuzu, Ford ) makes a PTO in a gas.

Diesel engines are made to run with the torque required to spin a big blower like this. Gas motors would never last as long and you would get 4 miles to the gallon. Gas motors run much hotter and wear out faster. That is why the Butler horse dies before the Butler.

http://www.chevrolet.com/mediumduty/kod ... /features/

it appears it comes with 8.1 litre gas with the allison which should have a pto. Id like to see the duramax also. Much...Much more umph to get up and down hills compared to the cab forward trucks like the ud/isuzu/mits. Im sure a ford can be set in a f550 the same way either a powerstroke or maybe a v10. Used to could get a cummins in a f550 or f650

just checked ford f550 either diesel or gas both appear to be available with the torqueshift auto which is pto capable,
dodge 550 only cummins aisin auto has pto. hemi comes with 5speed auto no pto on trans.

 

[floorguy]

So what the heck is AT going to do? Are they always going to build on 2007 trucks?

It seems for such an big company they should have seen this coming. In this economy should a company really be that far behind the 8 ball?

See the changes in the truck coming yes...

See this massive of change in the economy...not a chance

besides aside from people not dropping that much coin on a "big" machine whats the economy have to do with how you design your machine???

 

[Lee Stockwell]

They've been booted Mike...

 

[Mikey P]

A few geek owners left but AT themselves lurk yet won't chime in.

 

[gasaxe]

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKE ... %20P.T.O.S

front mount pto. It can be done its called engineering..lol

 

[Lee Stockwell]

We have two 7.3 powerstroke diesels. This would be interesting, but would probably require quite a modification to the radiator etc...

 

[gasaxe]

We have two 7.3 powerstroke diesels. This would be interesting, but would probably require quite a modification to the radiator etc...

if they are autos they should have a pto access cover on the trans. 4r100/e40d has pto on it.

 

[steve g]

I think its time for even I to admit, AT may not be in it much longer, the fact is they have never marketed themselves very well IMO. they have no board presence, no one to answer questions on the boards or anything. They have limited knowledge of the industry, could the AT guys jump in their own truck and handle cleaning a house?? Like it or not more people are turning to the internet for their info. Everyone seems goga over the isuzu, I haven't driven them since I left my previous employer in '02, but I can tell you then they where not a truck I would ever buy. I have never driven a worse vehicle actually in all the years I worked for 3 different companys with vehicle fleets, This new model isuzu may very well be a better truck, who knows, it probably too early for anyone to know. The UD was the best box truck going for a long time, I don't think I have ever heard a complaint from UD guys about the truck itself.

with all the electronic stuff, it just makes things worse and brings up a big weakness I have always said about the whole vortex platform, what happens if you have an '06 model, you total the truck, moving the machine to a new truck could be a nightmare and possibly impossible. or if you buy an '08 and have to deal with the same thing 2 or 3 years down the road.

 

[Jim Martin]

with all the electronic stuff, it just makes things worse and brings up a big weakness I have always said about the whole vortex platform, what happens if you have an '06 model, you total the truck, moving the machine to a new truck could be a nightmare and possibly impossible. or if you buy an '08 and have to deal with the same thing 2 or 3 years down the road.

I totally 100 % agree.....that is why I really like my style equipment....none of the electronic crap to to worry about....simple ..on..off and run the throttle cable up....easy to fix......

 

[FB7777]

One thing is certain for me... if I went with a big truck, it would either be a Butler in the GMC (Isuzu) Cab or I would put a big slide-in in the box.

sporadic shut downs and limited service centers wouldn't fly with me

When you run a slide in the truck motor is never running so you have no need to shut the truck down.
The Butler does not use the truck exhaust to heat the HX ( from what I understand ) so it would not matter if the truck is going thru its DPF Burn or not.
The Isuzu truck is #1 in the US with hundered of service centers. You will have one close.

I know this Adam, hence my personal choices...are you explaining the obvious to me or the rest of the board?

 

[Walt]

I talked to the guys at FMI about it and they were VERY positive about the move over to Isuzu. They sell several different brands and work on all of them. They think Isuzu is the best all around truck.

Questions that I have asked several times and have never gotten an answer on:

1. What is the real world MPG loaded of a Vortex?

2. What is the real world burn of fuel per hour? I've heard 1.7 for a long time. Is it really the same?

3. What is the real life expectancy of these machines?

Shawn York said they were a 10 year machine. But then said, every hour equals 50 miles on the truck. That would mean a busy company would put the equivalent of 50k miles on the engine every year plus actual milage.

4. Is there a Vortex around with 10,000 hours on it? 8,000 hours? That hasn't had a major engine rebuild or a new blower?

I haven't seen an older one that didn't have the blower, or transmission, or engine replaced or rebuilt. None of them had more than 5k hours. Admittedly, none looked like they were well cared for and some looked abused.

Please don't read this as an attack, but as questions from someone who was considering a new V not to long ago and may still in fact buy one in the future. I am still a fan of the platform but anyone considering such a machine would have to include these reasonable questions when factoring the cost of ownership.

 

[Greenie]

Walt reminds me, being a former V owner, and current Diesel Genesis owner, this thread seems to point just as many towards an independent diesel slide in as a Diesel PTO, quite the opposit point that my friend Steve makes.

And since nobody has yet addressed it, Why on earth is AT (specifically) not building on the Isuzu platform....I don't buy that canned answer "we aren't enginnered" for it....Jeeze BL is doing it fine, the PTO drive systems are very similar.

And I agree, AT is killing themselves by remaining mute on these threads...I know it's a bean counter issue, not something that Vlad, Ted, or DeEtte are behind.

 

[hogjowl]

I suspect AT is not because they don't have a sales department. (If I'm wrong, and they do have a sales department, they need to fire them.) I suspect the engineers, bean counters and rachet drivers think somebody else should be doing the sales work.

Just one Mikey-peep could do them a ton of good.

 

[gasaxe]

I suspect AT is not because they don't have a sales department. (If I'm wrong, and they do have a sales department, they need to fire them.) I suspect the engineers, bean counters and rachet drivers think somebody else should be doing the sales work.

Just one Mikey-peep could do them a ton of good.

all they gotta do is send me a truck and ill shill for em.

 

[FB7777]

I suspect AT is not because they don't have a sales department. (If I'm wrong, and they do have a sales department, they need to fire them.) I suspect the engineers, bean counters and rachet drivers think somebody else should be doing the sales work.

Just one Mikey-peep could do them a ton of good.

they did one better, they gots the New Zoo Review